JBs love affair with keita | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

JBs love affair with keita

Keita, Xmas and DC2. Take your pick. Put any of the three in a WHEELCHAIR and they would play the same as if they were not in a wheelchair.
 
timkay99 said:
Looking at purely the +/- last night (which has its issues - agreed), but this should be the best way to quantify the impact they had on the game last night when they were in.

11-10 Syracuse (Rak exits, Keita enters) - 10 UConn Points
Rak +1
22-21 Conneticut (Keita exits, Rak enters) - 12 UConn Points
Keita -1
39-37 Conneticut (Rak exits, Keita enters) - 17 UConn Points
Rak -1
57-48 Conneticut (Keita exits, Rak enters) - 18 UConn Points
Keita -5
66-58 final (Rak finishes game) - 9 UConn Points
Rak +2


Overall, Rak was +2 last night and Keita was -6.

UConn scored 36 points in the 25 minutes Christmas played. (1.44 points per minute)
UConn scored 30 points in the 15 minutes Keita played. (2 points per minute)

UConn overall shooting while players were in the game:

With Christmas (UConn 6 offensive rebounds)
Olander (2-3) - dunk, layup
Boatright (5-7, 4-4 3PA) - dunk
Calhoun (1-7, 0-2 3PA)
Napier (2-3, 0-1 3PA)
Daniels (1-4)
Giffey (0-1)
Overall (11-25, 4-7 3PA) = 44 %, 2 point defense (7-18) = 39 %

With Keita (UConn 5 offensive rebounds)
Giffey (3-7, 1-1 3PA) - dunk
Evans (1-1)
Boatright (1-3)
Nolan (0-1)
Napier (1-3, 1-3 3PA)
Calhoun (3-4, 3-4 3PA)
Daniels (1-1) - layup
Overall (10-20, 5-8 3PA) = 50 %, 2 point defense (5-12) = 42 %

Rak makes his mistakes, but he also makes up for mistakes with his blocks. Did you know Keita didn't have a single defensive rebound last night? In 15 minutes!

While they are both flawed options, Keita playing 15 minutes a night is not a solution for this team.
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Nice work. Matches what my eyes are telling me.

Another thing (and good luck quantifying this one): Baye really struggles with giving up three-point plays. That hip-check for the and-one at the under-8:00 timeout is something we've seen a lot this year. If you're going to burn a foul, you've got to make certain that the guy's not getting a field goal.
 
tbonezone said:
wow. that's a lot of data. some might simply argue that the missed putback dunk by rakim cost us the game.
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Meh, they'd be wrong. Didn't that happen in a six-point game with like a minute left?

That was unacceptable, but hardly a recurring problem for Christmas. He tends to make his dunks.. The problem is that the guy who shoots 56% doesn't even get 5 shots per game.
 
OttoMets said:
Meh, they'd be wrong. Didn't that happen in a six-point game with like a minute left?

That was unacceptable, but hardly a recurring problem for Christmas. He tends to make his dunks.. The problem is that the guy who shoots 56% doesn't even get 5 shots per game.
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Yeah I think it would've pulled it to 4 with about 1:40 left or so. We would've had a chance, but we'd still be huge dogs.
 
timkay99 said:
I agree, which is why I find it interesting that people rip Christmas for that when his sub would have never come close to it.
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I find it interesting that people think Christmas is a good player. Personally, I don't rip Christmas because I think Keita's a better player. I rip Christmas to show that they both suck.
 
KingOtis said:
I find it interesting that people think Christmas is a good player. Personally, I don't rip Christmas because I think Keita's a better player. I rip Christmas to show that they both suck.
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IMO, they are both flawed options. The difference is that people tend to overvalue Keita on the defensive end to the point where they think it offsets the uselessness that he is on the offensive end.

Ideally for me, Keita plays 10-12 minutes and Rak plays the rest.

Rak is much more formidable in the middle defensively and can actually catch the ball and do enough things to not be a problem on the offensive end.

Don't overlook the fact that in an offense designed around picks, he is by far the best screener on the team. Keita is way too thin to set quality screens.
 
i don't think either suck. i'd say we're blessed right now talent wise at the center position. better than most.
 
timkay99 said:
Don't overlook the fact that in an offense designed around picks, he is by far the best screener on the team. Keita is way too thin to set quality screens.
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I'll give you that, although we've had much better.
 
tbonezone said:
i don't think either suck. i'd say we're blessed right now talent wise at the center position. better than most.
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No way. They're both weak. Physically, mentally, however you want to look at it.

If we were blessed at the position, we wouldn't have been out-rebounded by an undersized team playing without out its only true center.
 
or just maybe the coach puts a brick under the gas pedal. might also be argued we don't use our big men wisely.
 
timkay99 said:
Looking at purely the +/- last night (which has its issues - agreed), but this should be the best way to quantify the impact they had on the game last night when they were in.

11-10 Syracuse (Rak exits, Keita enters) - 10 UConn Points
Rak +1
22-21 Conneticut (Keita exits, Rak enters) - 12 UConn Points
Keita -1
39-37 Conneticut (Rak exits, Keita enters) - 17 UConn Points
Rak -1
57-48 Conneticut (Keita exits, Rak enters) - 18 UConn Points
Keita -5
66-58 final (Rak finishes game) - 9 UConn Points
Rak +2


Overall, Rak was +2 last night and Keita was -6.

UConn scored 36 points in the 25 minutes Christmas played. (1.44 points per minute)
UConn scored 30 points in the 15 minutes Keita played. (2 points per minute)

UConn overall shooting while players were in the game:

With Christmas (UConn 6 offensive rebounds)
Olander (2-3) - dunk, layup
Boatright (5-7, 4-4 3PA) - dunk
Calhoun (1-7, 0-2 3PA)
Napier (2-3, 0-1 3PA)
Daniels (1-4)
Giffey (0-1)
Overall (11-25, 4-7 3PA) = 44 %, 2 point defense (7-18) = 39 %

With Keita (UConn 5 offensive rebounds)
Giffey (3-7, 1-1 3PA) - dunk
Evans (1-1)
Boatright (1-3)
Nolan (0-1)
Napier (1-3, 1-3 3PA)
Calhoun (3-4, 3-4 3PA)
Daniels (1-1) - layup
Overall (10-20, 5-8 3PA) = 50 %, 2 point defense (5-12) = 42 %

Rak makes his mistakes, but he also makes up for mistakes with his blocks. Did you know Keita didn't have a single defensive rebound last night? In 15 minutes!

While they are both flawed options, Keita playing 15 minutes a night is not a solution for this team.
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This is a fun conversation. :)

Though I agree with the overall premise that they are both flawed options, I can't agree with the logic here (the limits of which are pointed out in the post). It assumes the other four players on the floor aren't responsible for the scoring, too, on both ends of the floor. The same is true for hockey--just because a player is on the ice for a goal doesn't mean the goal was his fault.

Let's say that Brandon Triche takes a jump shot with Rak on the floor. He makes it. Christmas +2. Same exact jump shot by Triche with Keita on the floor, but Brandon misses it this time. Is that Keita's fault? Still, Christmas gets the credit for Brandon's ability to make the shot with him on the floor.

The same can be said about Boatright. If he misses a shot with Keita on the floor, but he makes that shot with Christmas, but neither center could directly stop him from shooting it, how do we really blame Christmas for that?

The truth (as your post states) is that neither player is very good on either end, at least not consistently. I have argued elsewhere that Rak's upside is much higher, and that I hope he continues working on his game to reach his potential. In other words, I'm a Rak supporter, but I support all of the kids and am interested in their development. If Rak can play well enough to earn 35 minutes a game-great! So far, though, he hasn't shown that, and for every stat thrown at me to suggest Rak is by far and away much better right now, I will argue about his lack of technical and tactical fundamentals being the reason he isn't providing more impact on a consistent basis.

But for the stat guys, according to statsheet.com, in Big East play, Rak is averaging 12 more minutes a game than Baye, but only 2.5 more rebounds a game and .9 more blocks. Are those numbers really so much better considering his 12 extra minutes a game? Rak's plus/minus average in conference play is 5.5. Baye is 1.9. I seriously wonder who plays with Cooney on the floor more often since that might affect plus/minus. I don't discount stats, because they can provide logical support for a point. I don't think they are the only measure of what the truth is, either, especially when their use as support seems flawed based on logical examination.
 
GoHamSU said:
But guys how many WINS DO YOU HAVE!!!!!

Kidding, I'm guessing it is for defense. He also grabbed some boards but problem is can't finish.

Rak should be playing more, I agree.
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Guess this was written before RAK front rimmed that put back dunk at the end of the game that would have gotten us to within four. Fact is both guys have huge shortcomings, but Keita gives the impression that he is giving great effort with limited ability while RAK tends to give the opposite impression IMO. Hopefully RAK comes back next year so we see more of the fruits that are typically born from the underclass Bigman struggles.
 
Eh, our guards do the bigs no favors at all - they rarely make much of an effort to get them involved. It doesn't excuse the poor play from either one, but I've never seen two guards put less emphasis on getting the ball into the post. They're both sub-30% three point shooters and would choose a deep three with a hand in their face over getting the ball into the post every time.

I don't know, maybe with more touches throughout the year we would see some improvement inside. They both still look shocked if they even touch the ball.
 
Ghost said:
Eh, our guards do the bigs no favors at all - they rarely make much of an effort to get them involved. It doesn't excuse the poor play from either one, but I've never seen two guards put less emphasis on getting the ball into the post. They're both sub-30% three point shooters and would choose a deep three with a hand in their face over getting the ball into the post every time.

I don't know, maybe with more touches throughout the year we would see some improvement inside. They both still look shocked if they even touch the ball.
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Go check out the latter pages of the "typical board loss meltdown" thread or whatever it's called. You'll appreciate it.
 
GoHamSU said:
Go check out the latter pages of the "typical board loss meltdown" thread or whatever it's called. You'll appreciate it.
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Will do.
 
As a coach, there are many likely reasons for JBs preference at times. Sure Keita has the lowest PPG of anyone except for the walk-ons and his rebounding is not so hot, but he has only 14 TOs for the year. Compare that to MCW with 87 and Triche with 63. He also is 2nd on the team in bks.

Much harder to figure is being down 6 to 8 pts against UConn with 3 mins to go and the top scorer on the team for three consecutive games in a row sitting on the bench, while others who ave. 4.3 ppg (or less) are on the floor. Guess lecturing to CJ was more important than a win over UConn.
 
orange2win said:
As a coach, there are many likely reasons for JBs preference at times. Sure Keita has the lowest PPG of anyone except for the walk-ons and his rebounding is not so hot, but he has only 14 TOs for the year. Compare that to MCW with 87 and Triche with 63. He also is 2nd on the team in bks.

Much harder to figure is being down 6 to 8 pts against UConn with 3 mins to go and the top scorer on the team for three consecutive games in a row sitting on the bench, while others who ave. 4.3 ppg (or less) are on the floor. Guess lecturing to CJ was more important than a win over UConn.
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True, but we wouldn't compare him to the guards. The comparison is to Christmas, and I think he has 18 or 19.

If Keita is locking down the interior, this discussion makes a little more sense. He's long been a vocal and smart defensive center. Our interior defense has been spotty with him in the game lately, though. If that part of his game isn't there, we're really losing a lot at the center position when he plays over Christmas.
 
orange2win said:
As a coach, there are many likely reasons for JBs preference at times. Sure Keita has the lowest PPG of anyone except for the walk-ons and his rebounding is not so hot, but he has only 14 TOs for the year. Compare that to MCW with 87 and Triche with 63. He also is 2nd on the team in bks.

Much harder to figure is being down 6 to 8 pts against UConn with 3 mins to go and the top scorer on the team for three consecutive games in a row sitting on the bench, while others who ave. 4.3 ppg (or less) are on the floor. Guess lecturing to CJ was more important than a win over UConn.
Expand...

Did you just compare the turnover numbers of our back up center to our starting guards?
 
CuseFaninVT said:
The truth is that if Keita had the short leash that Rak does with JB, he'd see the floor for a minute and then he'd be back on the bench.

I have another theory about this though. JB knows that both are likely to foul out so he want's Rak to finish games and that's why he leaves Keita in there for longer than he deserves. I'm sorry, but Keita is awful. He's the reason that James got the foul on that 3 point shot from the corner - Keita rushing over actually pushed James into the shooter. It wasn't intentional, but Keita has so little control over his skinny body that he can't stop himself.
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I've been a whiny poster for a looooong time on this board.

And I really miss Coach Orange
 
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