Jesse Edwards among National leaders

[MDCuse]

He has steadily improved over the last 2 seasons. And marek was a better option all around than Jesse.

This is absolutely false. It wasn't an "either/or" proposition. Marek playing 35+ MPG was absolutely not a better option than playing Jesse 12 MPG and giving Marek a breather or moving him around.

 

[rrlbees]

great article on Jesse by Donna!

Outstanding article.

 

[rrlbees]

This is absolutely false. It wasn't an "either/or" proposition. Marek playing 35+ MPG was absolutely not a better option than playing Jesse 12 MPG and giving Marek a breather or moving him around.

In your opinion.

 

[MDCuse]

In your opinion.

LOL isn't that what a message board is? Like your statement?

 

[rrlbees]

LOL isn't that what a message board is? Like your statement?

Yes it is.

 

[orangepassion]

great article on Jesse by Donna!

Donna and Mike Waters are Syracuse treasures. Hope they keep doing what they're doing for a long time to come.

 

[Cheriehoop]

He apparently made a gargantuan leap this past year as he wasn't a viable option over Marek at Center.

He’s made huge leaps even game to game this year too. I think last year’s team JB figured we needed the ball handling ability of Marek to break pressure, create transition opportunities and make assists. Marek had a 2 to 1 assist/turnover ratio very unique for a big. If it was rebounds I agree Jesse I think was somewhat better. Boeheim must have thought that Marek was better on defense last year and being Marek’s last year, JB showcases those players that stay too. Jesse’s defense has sure taken big jumps this year as has his moves to the basket. Love that Jesse doesn’t bring the ball down once he gets a hold of it and is so agile, great body control.

 

[djcon57]

If it was rebounds I agree Jesse I think was somewhat better.

If by "somewhat better" you mean factually DOUBLE the Defensive Reb% and Total Rebounding percentages...then yes, he was somewhat better.

 

[OrangeDW]

You’re projecting backwards. Edwards was not the player last year that he is today. Marek may have been the most important player on the team. Jesse was not going to play over Marek nor Q nor should he have.

Still think Jesse could’ve contributed a lot more than he did, and we badly needed a center.

 

[MDCuse]

He’s made huge leaps even game to game this year too. I think last year’s team JB figured we needed the ball handling ability of Marek to break pressure, create transition opportunities and make assists. Marek had a 2 to 1 assist/turnover ratio very unique for a big. If it was rebounds I agree Jesse I think was somewhat better. Boeheim must have thought that Marek was better on defense last year and being Marek’s last year, JB showcases those players that stay too. Jesse’s defense has sure taken big jumps this year as has his moves to the basket. Love that Jesse doesn’t bring the ball down once he gets a hold of it and is so agile, great body control.

If your best option to break the pressure is play a 200 pounder at center, that may be a problem.

 

[OrangeDW]

If your best option to break the pressure is play a 200 pounder at center, that may be a problem.

As we saw late against WVU - certain lineups really struggled against pressure.

Probably had some workarounds though. We actually had a fairly deep team last year.

Probably a lot easier to just play the same 7 guys in the same spots regardless of opponent matchups and situations though.

 

[rrlbees]

If by "somewhat better" you mean factually DOUBLE the Defensive Reb% and Total Rebounding percentages...then yes, he was somewhat better.

And marek had a significantly higher BPM, OBPM and the same DBPM while also having significantly better WS and PER. You can go round and round with this stuff. The fact is Marek was a key ingredient to that team I’m many ways.

 

[rrlbees]

If your best option to break the pressure is play a 200 pounder at center, that may be a problem.

We’ve used other players to break pressure for many years. It’s the smart thing to do because against full court pressure a forward isn’t going to get the best defender. I can list a number of guys who broke the press that weren’t guards. And that 200 pounder was just as good on defense as the other guy.

 

[MDCuse]

We’ve used other players to break pressure for many years. It’s the smart thing to do because against full court pressure a forward isn’t going to get the best defender. I can list a number of guys who broke the press that weren’t guards. And that 200 pounder was just as good on defense as the other guy.

But you don't use that as a reason to play a 200 pounder at center 35 MPG. You can absolutely use different outlets when attempting to break a press. But there is no way you should play a 200 pounder at center for 35 MPG in the ACC. Period. End of story. He was the smallest center in the ACC, by a lot (giving up 25+ pounds each night), and would be again this year as well. You could have deployed MD in a multitude of ways that highlight his unique skill set. That team last year should have been much better. That was a really talented and deep team. Winning games against SDSU & WVU (almost yakked that away not handling pressure) does not change the fact that team should have been playing for a top 4 seed. Not sweating Selection Sunday. Again.

 

[MDCuse]

And marek had a significantly higher BPM, OBPM and the same DBPM while also having significantly better WS and PER. You can go round and round with this stuff. The fact is Marek was a key ingredient to that team I’m many ways.

And as a side note, JE WS/40 was not far behind MD. Plus, JE was significantly better in a number of counting categories per 40 Min and per 100 poss.

 

[djcon57]

And as a side note, JE WS/40 was not far behind MD. Plus, JE was significantly better in a number of counting categories per 40 Min and per 100 poss.

also on a side note, who the hell was talking about all those other stats or if Marek wasn’t a key part of the team.

i was responding to the suggestion he was “somewhat“ better on the boards. he was a lot better, it’s reflected in the stats.

and you specifically said you didn’t say he shouldn’t play more than Marek, just more minutes

 

[OrangeDW]

And marek had a significantly higher BPM, OBPM and the same DBPM while also having significantly better WS and PER. You can go round and round with this stuff. The fact is Marek was a key ingredient to that team I’m many ways.

Marek was integral. Think we would’ve been better off if he played a lot of his minutes at the 4, assuming Jesse could play solid at center.

He helped when he got chances in the second half of the season.

 

[rrlbees]

Marek was integral. Think we would’ve been better off if he played a lot of his minutes at the 4, assuming Jesse could play solid at center.

He helped when he got chances in the second half of the season.

But therein lies the problem. If he played a lot of minutes at the 4, what happens to Q who played 33? mpg?

 

[kirbivore]

Donna and Mike Waters are Syracuse treasures. Hope they keep doing what they're doing for a long time to come.

Once they know JB is gone I want them to take the gloves off.

 

[OrangeDW]

But therein lies the problem. If he played a lot of minutes at the 4, what happens to Q who played 33? mpg?

Play Q 28-30 mpg, with some of them coming at the 3?

Maybe:
PG - Kadary 28 Joe - 12
SG - Buddy 28, Joe - 5, Griff - 7
SF - Griff - 16, QG - 10, Bras - 14
PF - Marek - 15, QG - 20, Bras - 5
C- Jesse - 25, Marek - 15

There’s 8 guys basically playing 20-30 mpg on average. Every game is different. Maybe certain games you go small more, games where Buddy is unconscious, he plays 34 or whatever, etc. Personally, I think we had the depth to cover our weaknesses better depending on matchups. I don’t think we had a superstar that needed to play 30+ mpg, but we had a lot of decent- good players.

Would’ve rather seen a more 2012ish distribution of minutes, rather than trying to ride “horses” who aren’t actually horses.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Man, I loved Marek. What an all around player. Hell of a teammate. Also, was clear as day last year Jesse needed more time at center. Love playing a center at center.

 

[orange79]

Man, I loved Marek. What an all around player. Hell of a teammate. Also, was clear as day last year Jesse needed more time at center. Love playing a center at center.

And tough. You forgot tough.

 

[MDCuse]

But therein lies the problem. If he played a lot of minutes at the 4, what happens to Q who played 33? mpg?

You can't play a back line of Q, JE & MD? You can't rest Buddy a few more minutes a game? Play AG up top? This is my whole point. This team was very deep and versatile. Guys got stuck in spots because of the coach and got played out of position because of it.

 

[MDCuse]

also on a side note, who the hell was talking about all those other stats or if Marek wasn’t a key part of the team.

i was responding to the suggestion he was “somewhat“ better on the boards. he was a lot better, it’s reflected in the stats.

and you specifically said you didn’t say he shouldn’t play more than Marek, just more minutes

The poster I responded with this message to mentioned those stats and I brought up a counter that JE could have played the 5 and provided plenty of value. Marek is one of my favorite players to suit up for the Orange since Flynn. I think he was abused by Jim and I think he could have provided WAY more value playing a more versatile role instead of being pinned at the 5.