Jonny Flynn and Donte Greene on list of available free agents

[moqui]

nobody is a bigger supporter of Wes as a pro than I, and I have consistently pointed out on this board the positives of his professional career. He is becoming a solid wing defender and capable 3 point threat, but Bruce Bowen is still a reach at this point. I think he'll be a rotation player and earn a 2nd contract, but he will remain be a serious disappointment relative to his draft selection. Like it or not, Syracuse players already have a bad reputation as NBA players, and Wes and Flynn are already considered busts or near busts. It is going to take a lot to overcome that rep.

 

[RF2044]

nobody is a bigger supporter of Wes as a pro than I, and I have consistently pointed out on this board the positives of his professional career. He is becoming a solid wing defender and capable 3 point threat, but Bruce Bowen is still a reach at this point. I think he'll be a rotation player and earn a 2nd contract, but he will remain be a serious disappointment relative to his draft selection. Like it or not, Syracuse players already have a bad reputation as NBA players, and Wes and Flynn are already considered busts or near busts. It is going to take a lot to overcome that rep.

I don't know--I hear what you're saying, but realistically the collective performance of Flynn and Wes certainly didn't prevent Dion Waiters from being selected fourth in this year's draft.

I think that players are evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Might GM's be more apprehensive to draft a Syracuse player based upon how these other players' games translated to the NBA level? Sure, it's possible. But I doubt that any team would shy away from selecting a player they think is good value, regardless of how past players have performed. The NBA is such a different game than college basketball, and every team is seeking diamonds in the rough that they think will elevate their roster.

 

[OrangeDW]

nobody is a bigger supporter of Wes as a pro than I, and I have consistently pointed out on this board the positives of his professional career. He is becoming a solid wing defender and capable 3 point threat, but Bruce Bowen is still a reach at this point. I think he'll be a rotation player and earn a 2nd contract, but he will remain be a serious disappointment relative to his draft selection. Like it or not, Syracuse players already have a bad reputation as NBA players, and Wes and Flynn are already considered busts or near busts. It is going to take a lot to overcome that rep.

Agree, but Bruce Bowen was a nobody until he got on the right team in his 30's. Wes could become a very solid pro in the right situation, though he likely won't live up to what you hope to get out of a #4 pick, where you're hoping to get a star player.

As for Flynn, I just hope he gets the opportunity to play enough to show whether he can play at the NBA level or not. He struggled as a rookie, but he showed flashes. I mean he was one of the weaker starting PG's in the league but he WAS a starter and his rookie year production stacked up to or exceeded alot of PG's who ended up being very good. You can't write a 20 year old PG in a mismatched system off. But since that hip injury, he has barely gotten on the court to even show what he's got.

I really just hope for a few things for him....that he's 100% healthy and that he gets the opportunity to get minutes and show what he can do, again. To this point, I can't say he's really gotten much of a shot. 1 year of PT as a 20(?) year old rookie is not much of a crack for such a high pick.

 

[PoppyHart]

I wish Devo was on the 2010 team.

 

[RF2044]

I wish Devo was on the 2010 team.

I don't. Who would he have played over? And how would his lack of defensive aptitude rub off on a team that had perfect defensive chemistry?

Love Devo, but it was addition by subtraction. Ditto Harris and Flynn.

 

[SaintTristan]

obviously, only the cursed hand of Jim Boeheim could ruin "the best guard in the ESPN era."

Flynn should have stayed.

Not sure it mattered with Donte. Horrible basketball player. I was not unhappy when he left and was very vocal that while a nice kid, he'd be an NBA flop. Cant dribble and doesnt have the mental makeup to be successful in the NBA.

 

[OttoMets]

Not to be hyper critical or sound harsh, but I think it would have been best for Jonny's sake to have stayed but probably better for SU's sake that he didn't.

I haven't read anyone's comments yet - I got stuck at work. I amend what I said above - I think both Jonny and SU are better off and probably the same with Donte. I don't think it's any coincidence that we did so well in the year. Happy that both Jonny and Donte got to follow their dreams. I don't think their real goals would have been met while staying in college so I doubt SU teams would have benefitted by them staying.

I think that is spot-on, 100% accurate.

 

[OttoMets]

I don't. Who would he have played over? And how would his lack of defensive aptitude rub off on a team that had perfect defensive chemistry?

Love Devo, but it was addition by subtraction. Ditto Harris and Flynn.

2010 was the year we learned that decent recruits who give maximum effort and get along with each other (and their coach) are often better than McDonald's guys who don't.

Put any one of those three guys (even Harris, who's one of my all-time favorites and who would've been a great asset at ten or fifteen minutes a game, especially after we lost Arinze) on the 2010 team and it's no longer a Big East regular season champ. It's just another ten-loss team with a couple strong personalities who are vocal about their disdain for defense and don't allow their pride to be damaged by things like giving up 100 points to Providence.

Worse, it could have extended the era that Scoop spoke of upon graduation - teams with veterans but no leaders to show young guys the right way to practice, play, and conduct themselves.

Empty woofing and jersey-tugging without defense or leadership? No thanks.

 

[orangefan13]

We lost to butler because we had no post scoring presence and scoop, triche and rautins couldn't drive.
With Johnny or Devendorf we either A)add ED as a third shooter on the floor and a guy who can drive some or B) Johnny as driver who could have got into the paint at will and another isolation threat.

Johnny would have been the perfect fix to get rick in the low post instead of the high against butler. And he would have known the best thing he could have done would have been to work on his midrange game in the offseason with AO, Rick in the paint and Wes and Rautins on the perimeter.

Not to mention both those guys led the team in scoring the year before. Flynn, Devo, even Harris didn't hurt any syracuse team chemistry, injuries, lacking things, and the lack of leadership did.
People still say Johnny would have ruined the unselfshiness of that team as if they would have turned down even Derek Rose on our 09-10 team.

 

[OttoMets]

We lost to butler because we had no post scoring presence and scoop, triche and rautins couldn't drive.
With Johnny or Devendorf we either A)add ED as a third shooter on the floor and a guy who can drive some or B) Johnny as driver who could have got into the paint at will and another isolation threat.

Johnny would have been the perfect fix to get rick in the low post instead of the high against butler.
Not to mention both those guys led the team in scoring the year before.

First, I'd argue that we never would've been in the position to play Butler as a one seed after a full season with those guys in the rotation.

Second, Flynn and Devendorf undoubtedly possessed a skill that we needed - dribble-drive - against Butler. Trouble is, they also had a weakness - no defensive effort - that would have cancelled that out (even if the dribble-drive had been effective, which is no sure thing: Butler's guys were playing football that night, and Scoop was able to drive but not convert).

Third, Flynn had very good assist numbers at SU, but he'd be low on anyone's list of "point guard to feed Rick Jackson or anyone else in the post." That's really not the kind of passer he was.

Sometimes these things look better on paper than they do on the court. More offensive talent doesn't necessarily make for a better team or even a better match-up in one specific defensive rock-fight.

(Harris, despite what common sense keeps barking at me, could have helped against Butler, at least in a perfect world. Unfortunately, Point #1 is still valid. Harris would have been most valuable in limited minutes --> it's unlikely that he'd have accepted limited minutes --> he would have lost his mind and committed a violent felony if he had to listen to Boeheim scream at him for another winter --> team chemistry would have suffered --> Syracuse would not have earned a one seed and would not have been matched up against Butler in the Sweet Sixteen.)

 

[OrangeDW]

2010 was the year we learned that decent recruits who give maximum effort and get along with each other (and their coach) are often better than McDonald's guys who don't.

Put any one of those three guys (even Harris, who's one of my all-time favorites and who would've been a great asset at ten or fifteen minutes a game, especially after we lost Arinze) on the 2010 team and it's no longer a Big East regular season champ. It's just another ten-loss team with a couple strong personalities who are vocal about their disdain for defense and don't allow their pride to be damaged by things like giving up 100 points to Providence.

.

The 2009 team did lose 10 games...but it also won 28, made it to the BET finals, made the sweet 16, and had great OOC wins. They hit a rough patch midseason, but that was probably the strongest the Big East has ever been. That was a great season too, all things considered.

I don't understand the "vocal about their disdain for defense" thing. Do you mean Flynn and Harris wanting to play more man to man?

 

[orangefan13]

We can't say we know defensive effort would have been that much worse with Devendorf or Flynn, unless Rautins wasn't out there. Brandon and scoop both had their defensive woes that year as well. Devendorf and Flynn were leaders, Jardine was a good 6th man at best who started to show some leadership come march.

Johnny drove and fed the baseline a ton his sophmore year. That was his bread and butter. Especially with Harris and Rick's strength baseline.
While Scoop threw the ball into the high post to Onuaku, Flynn could have got the ball into the low post to Rick off the drive, which we really could have used against Butler . Two totally different things. His speed would have been really beneficial to break down their draping defense and to find the open man once the help defense collapsed, that year.

Also Devendorf and especially Flynn could have helped cut down on turnovers with another scorer or better driver on the floor. The 09-10 team did have their turnover woes at times.
I will agree though scoop was probably better then given credit for though come 09-10 march. Devendorf and Flynn were proven leaders with more experience. Not just 6th men. Who knows how much better they could have been with another offseason.

 

[OttoMets]

The 2009 team did lose 10 games...but it also won 28, made it to the BET finals, made the sweet 16, and had great OOC wins. They hit a rough patch midseason, but that was probably the strongest the Big East has ever been. That was a great season too, all things considered.

I don't understand the "vocal about their disdain for defense" thing. Do you mean Flynn and Harris wanting to play more man to man?

Flynn specifically, but yeah.

Don't mean to discount what they did; 2009 was a good season (got us back not just to the Sweet Sixteen but to the tournament itself after a long dry spell) with some great moments (six overtimes was special, winning in overtime on short rest in the semifinals was even more impressive). And we did have some good non-conference wins, including consecutive wins over the last two teams to win the national championship. And that exciting comeback against Kansas that was largely the result of, ahem, the defense of Jonny Flynn (pretty neat, given that I'm more critical of him than just about every Syracuse player).

It was an important season, no doubt about it. It was also important for several of its key contributors to move on; the program still was in need of a culture change. Sweet Sixteen and 28-10 was right around the ceiling for that group.

 

[OttoMets]

We can't say we know defensive effort would have been that much worse with Devendorf or Flynn, unless Rautins wasn't out there. Brandon and scoop both had their defensive woes that year as well. Devendorf and Flynn were leaders, Jardine was a good 6th man at best who started to show some leadership come march.

Johnny drove and fed the baseline a ton his sophmore year. That was his bread and butter. Especially with Harris and Rick's strength baseline.
While Scoop threw the ball into the high post to Onuaku, Flynn could have got the ball into the low post to Rick off the drive, which we really could have used against Butler . Two totally different things. His speed would have been really beneficial to break down their draping defense and to find the open man once the help defense collapsed, that year.

Also Devendorf and especially Flynn could have helped cut down on turnovers with another scorer or better driver on the floor. The 09-10 team did have their turnover woes at times.
I will agree though scoop was probably better then given credit for though come 09-10 march. Devendorf and Flynn were proven leaders with more experience. Not just 6th men. Who knows how much better they could have been with another offseason.

I'll agree to disagree on this one. I don't doubt that Flynn's speed and handle could have been an asset against Butler (though they didn't produce wins against Louisville and Pittsburgh, the two most Butler-esque teams he faced with regularity), but with the way that game was officiated, it's no certainty that Flynn would have been able to convert his opportunities. Small guy who often had layups blocked driving against goons who were hipchecking everything in sight? No exactly a recipe for success. But who knows?

2010 was great because there was one very capable leader on the court much of the time: Rautins. Not just a leader by default (as the other two were for a couple years), but a coach on the floor, someone who led by example (including playing defense, all the time). He did have a penchant for carelessness with the ball (more accurately: attempting impossible passes), but Devendorf and Flynn would hardly been an improvement in that facet of the game.

 

[orangefan13]

Scoop had Wes, AO, Joseph, and Rautins as scoring threats to pass to.
Flynn only had Devendorf and Rautins (since Ao went down).
And Rick was not only stronger but also with alittle bit of a hook as a Jr in the low post that he didn't have as a sophmore.
Scoop had Wes, AO, and Joseph who all brought isolation. Flynn only had Devendorf who could.

Flynn also could have broke down any defender in the league his problem was not finishing once he flew by his guy in the lane. Flynn would have torched Scoop in that catagory.

Thets do the opposite.
If you put the 09-10 Scoop on the team with Devendorf, Rautins, sophmore rick, hurt AO, Kristoff, Harris, and without Flynn they may have been between a 8/9 seed to on the bubble.
People knocked Flynns defense but his defense won the @marquette game for us with a steal dunk and a charge at the end of the game. And the guy got plowed over by Blake Griffin taking a charge.
It was pretty solid late in the season.

Also Flynn had 6.7 assists that year. By comparison Scoop only had 4.3.

 

[rrlbees]

Worse, it could have extended the era that Scoop spoke of upon graduation - teams with veterans but no leaders to show young guys the right way to practice, play, and conduct themselves.

Empty woofing and jersey-tugging without defense or leadership? No thanks.

Eh, we did OK in 2010 with Waiters and Scoop and then in 2011 with Waiters.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[Whitey23]

@dontegreenecos: HELLO BROOKLYN @ Brooklyn

He posted a picture of the Brooklyn Nets Logo, too.

 

[djcon57]

Johnny Flynn made 10 million dollars so far in the NBA.
Yeah he should've stayed another year. That would've been the difference.
(Sees Dee Brown and his $651,285 made in the NBA)

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

@dontegreenecos: HELLO BROOKLYN @ Brooklyn

He posted a picture of the Brooklyn Nets Logo, too.

Donte's such a good guy...so happy he's getting another shot.