Joseph's numbers by month

[Millhouse]

(All these are rounded up)

Jan he was 13 ppg 4 rebounds
Feb he was 16 and 6
March he was 10 and 3

Last 4 games against non 16 seeds, 9.25 ppg 1.25 rpg

I feel bad for scoop because I feel like he gave his all

I have my doubts about Joseph

 

[Timonen]

i'm gonna be confused for Kris' dad today, but I'm not sure you can look at it like that without the context of everybody elses stat movement, touches, designed plays etc. in feb i'd bet he shot better and we had more transition hoops. in march, i'd bet we were more halfcourt-oriented with scoop/brandon/dion deciding where the ball went.

 

[Millhouse]

i'm gonna be confused for Kris' dad today, but I'm not sure you can look at it like that without the context of everybody elses stat movement, touches, designed plays etc. in feb i'd bet he shot better and we had more transition hoops. in march, i'd bet we were more halfcourt-oriented with scoop/brandon/dion deciding where the ball went.

i care more about the rebounds, which is harder to excuse

 

[billsin01]

(All these are rounded up)

Jan he was 13 ppg 4 rebounds
Feb he was 16 and 6
March he was 10 and 3

Last 4 games against non 16 seeds, 9.25 ppg 1.25 rpg

I feel bad for scoop because I feel like he gave his all

I have my doubts about Joseph

I'm not going to speak for effort b/c, of course, not every player has the aaron craft dive all over the place face all the time. But I agree -- really disappointing march for him and rebounds often feel like effort and, well, those numbers would suggest it may have been lacking to some degree.

Scoop was gutsy. I will always respect that even if he was infuriatingly frustrating at times.

 

[djcon57]

i care more about the rebounds, which is harder to excuse

Esspecially when they showed the replays and you'd see him standing there looking confused. NEVER boxed out the last month for whatever reason.

 

[orangehomer]

in 6 postseason games he shot 15-50 (30%) from the field including 3-17 (18%) from three. his rebounding was obviously atrocious given that he was playing 35+ minutes. maybe that is partly on the staff, maybe he was playing too much, i don't know. i said it in another thread and i will say it again, two plays from from kris on saturday stuck out. the blown layup first. and there was a play on defense early in the second half i think, all he had to do was box out the guy standing behind him. instead he jumps for the rebound but mis-times it and the guy behind gets the ball and gets fouled by keita and makes the free throws. that's 2 points and an unnecessary foul on a center, which we just couldn't afford. those types of plays are inexcusable.

 

[br801]

(All these are rounded up)

Jan he was 13 ppg 4 rebounds
Feb he was 16 and 6
March he was 10 and 3

Last 4 games against non 16 seeds, 9.25 ppg 1.25 rpg

I feel bad for scoop because I feel like he gave his all

I have my doubts about Joseph

Based on everything I've heard about Kris as a person (and on what I've observed in his time at SU) I find your last comment to be quite strange. What in the world would possess Joseph to give less than his all? I believe his relatively inconsistent performance was perhaps a function of various nagging injuries.

 

[djcon57]

in 6 postseason games he shot 15-50 (30%) from the field including 3-17 (18%) from three. his rebounding was obviously atrocious given that he was playing 35+ minutes. maybe that is partly on the staff, maybe he was playing too much, i don't know. .

yep. 37 mins, 2 rebounds.

I obviously didn't want to pile on after the game. The ol' if you have nothing nice to say thing.

But that other Kris Jo thread made me shake my head. he's a great dude. Great rep for the university. Great career.

but vs Ohio State...he played 37 mins of terrible basketball and probably the reason we lost. Sorry.

 

[SourShoes]

Kris had a great personality.. with that said Im glad we are past the KJ days as a player. He was lazy and soft

 

[Millhouse]

Based on everything I've heard about Kris as a person (and on what I've observed in his time at SU) I find your last comment to be quite strange. What in the world would possess Joseph to give less than his all? I believe his relatively inconsistent performance was perhaps a function of various nagging injuries.

I observed inconsistent rebounding and a general aversion to physical play

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[br801]

I observed inconsistent rebounding and a general aversion to physical, play

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And I suggested a reason you may have observed that. But none of us will probably ever know foe sure what was going on.

 

[SUbear]

And I suggested a reason you may have observed that. But none of us will probably ever know foe sure what was going on.

Although athletically gifted, Joseph was the poster child for soft. He almost never went strong to the basket, his rebounding was weak, and his handle was not great(too many turnovers). Having said that it was Melo's absence that sealed our fate.

 

[anglerman]

And I suggested a reason you may have observed that. But none of us will probably ever know foe sure what was going on.

I agree that he was likely injured but if that's the case he shouldn't have played as much as he did. To me it was very similar to the Butler game 2 years a go when JB kept him in almost the entire game. He had an obvious bum knee and was useless on the floor. IMO that was biggest reason that SU lost that game.

 

[Melancer46]

Does someone wanna look at Waiters stats by month? Because I know he was shooting over 50% before Fab got suspended the first time and then shot around 30% from that point on and then he shot like 50+% again for the BET and NCAAs.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Although athletically gifted, Joseph was the poster child for soft. He almost never went strong to the basket, his rebounding was weak, and his handle was not great(too many turnovers). Having said that it was Melo's absence that sealed our fate.

That's not true. He used to literally throw himself at the basket, but stopped doing that in the last year. Too many injuries, I would guess. He probably thought his 3 point shooting would get defenders to come up on him more, and give him more room to drive. But he relied too much on the jump shot, and his handle just wasn't good enough to get by defenders with that first step.

He seemed out of sorts for the last month of the season. Maybe it was Dion's ascension - at least that's my opinion. Once Dion became a star, Kris went into decline. Maybe he was hurt, but he just didn't play aggressively enough, and he certainly didn't rebound up to the level required of a starter who got that many minutes.

Any F in our system who is the "star" player needs to get at least 7 rebounds a game. Go back thru the years and you'll see that guys like Shumpert, Damone Browne, Hakim, Wes Johnson,all those similar slender guys that we like to play - they all got respectable boards.

I really like his personality. Seems like a great guy. Willing to listen and be taught. Well liked by his teammates. Best of luck to him, but one of the guys we have coming back (either Southerland or Fair) will beat his numbers next year. Maybe both of them.

 

[br801]

Does someone wanna look at Waiters stats by month? Because I know he was shooting over 50% before Fab got suspended the first time and then shot around 30% from that point on and then he shot like 50+% again for the BET and NCAAs.

Nah, we need a separate thread to properly dissect Dion's season and minimize his contributions.

 

[ORRange]

It always cracks me up the excuses that are brought up when KJ plays badly. Everyone plays through nagging injuries. He didn't play badly in this tourney because he was injured. It was the same crutch used on this board when he played like diarrhea against Butler. He doesn't like the bright lights guys. Some players don't have "it". If he was hurt JB wouldn't have given Kris the minutes he had in either game. He made inexcusable mental errors at the end of both the Butler and Ohio St. games. I'm sorry if the truth is hard to swallow for some of you but we made a great comeback in both games and then Kris fumbled the games away. Fumbled is exactly the correct word.

 

[swish7]

Esspecially when they showed the replays and you'd see him standing there looking confused. NEVER boxed out the last month for whatever reason.

Yet, he cried openly at the presser after the loss. Someone who cares that much should play more like Craft, and less like someone expecting their opponents to roll over.

 

[jdubs30]

in 6 postseason games he shot 15-50 (30%) from the field including 3-17 (18%) from three. his rebounding was obviously atrocious given that he was playing 35+ minutes. maybe that is partly on the staff, maybe he was playing too much, i don't know. i said it in another thread and i will say it again, two plays from from kris on saturday stuck out. the blown layup first. and there was a play on defense early in the second half i think, all he had to do was box out the guy standing behind him. instead he jumps for the rebound but mis-times it and the guy behind gets the ball and gets fouled by keita and makes the free throws. that's 2 points and an unnecessary foul on a center, which we just couldn't afford. those types of plays are inexcusable.

In fairness, that blown layup was a classic example of being stuck in between dunking it or laying it; it looked like he wanted to dunk it, then eralized he couldn't, but by the time he tried to lay it in he didn't have control.

 

[sendithome]

I consider Kris soft and didn't think he liked to get physical after his nasty fall. There is a difference between not trying and not being physical. Reggie Miller was soft but I wouldn't call him lazy.

 

[Ghost]

I'll always like KJo, he's just likable dude. However, there were way too many times where he gave zero effort on the boards. I remember twice on replays in the KState game, a tourney game, where Rak or Keita came out to block a shot, the shot goes up, and on the replay you just see KJo turn and watch as the KState guy cuts in front, gets the board and the put-back.

I never got that - he wasn't leaking out, he wasn't going for the board, just kind of watching and hoping the rebound found him.

Anyway, season is over, and the kid had a very nice career. He'll be missed - whether it was injuries or not that held him back, who knows.

 

[billsin01]

That's not true. He used to literally throw himself at the basket, but stopped doing that in the last year. Too many injuries, I would guess. He probably thought his 3 point shooting would get defenders to come up on him more, and give him more room to drive. But he relied too much on the jump shot, and his handle just wasn't good enough to get by defenders with that first step.

He seemed out of sorts for the last month of the season. Maybe it was Dion's ascension - at least that's my opinion. Once Dion became a star, Kris went into decline. Maybe he was hurt, but he just didn't play aggressively enough, and he certainly didn't rebound up to the level required of a starter who got that many minutes.

Any F in our system who is the "star" player needs to get at least 7 rebounds a game. Go back thru the years and you'll see that guys like Shumpert, Damone Browne, Hakim, Wes Johnson,all those similar slender guys that we like to play - they all got respectable boards.

I really like his personality. Seems like a great guy. Willing to listen and be taught. Well liked by his teammates. Best of luck to him, but one of the guys we have coming back (either Southerland or Fair) will beat his numbers next year. Maybe both of them.

I think this about sums it up. Really hard not to like him and I actually think people tend to underrate his ability. Kid runs like a guard and is a very capable shooter, especially in the mid-range area. Capable of rebounding and really solid defensively. Takes criticism for his handle, but people forget he's 6-7. Shump/Hak/Brown/Johnson? Those guys couldn't have taken the ball on the wing at 22-feet and made something happen off the dribble. (and Melo, who has been an NBA all-star, was also criticized heavily for his handle.)

I think the issue with KJ's handle was really that KJ saw himself as a guy who should get the ball at 22 feet instead of at 12-15 feet. He was quick enough and coordinated enough to create off the dribble from there but his tendency to live out there got him in trouble more often than it helped him out. Close to 40% of his shots were from three.

I just think, with his coordination, quickness, athleticism, shooting prowess, etc., he could have been murder from 15 feet -- getting to the line more and developing some ability to finish occasionally with his left.

Anyway, at the end of the day he had a nice career and we had a lot of success with him on the roster. We should be fine with Southerland and Fair, but KJ was a good player on some pretty great teams.

 

[orangehomer]

In fairness, that blown layup was a classic example of being stuck in between dunking it or laying it; it looked like he wanted to dunk it, then eralized he couldn't, but by the time he tried to lay it in he didn't have control.

fine, it's one play and i get that. please understand that i am not hating on kris for the sake of it. the rebound play was the one that really bothered me. people on this board have always linked mookie and kevin jones, what about if we had taken kevin jones instead of kris? no one can convince me that jones has more physical talent than kris, he just has more drive.

 

[orangehomer]

I think this about sums it up. Really hard not to like him and I actually think people tend to underrate his ability. Kid runs like a guard and is a very capable shooter, especially in the mid-range area. Capable of rebounding and really solid defensively. Takes criticism for his handle, but people forget he's 6-7. Shump/Hak/Brown/Johnson? Those guys couldn't have taken the ball on the wing at 22-feet and made something happen off the dribble. (and Melo, who has been an NBA all-star, was also criticized heavily for his handle.)

I think the issue with KJ's handle was really that KJ saw himself as a guy who should get the ball at 22 feet instead of at 12-15 feet. He was quick enough and coordinated enough to create off the dribble from there but his tendency to live out there got him in trouble more often than it helped him out. Close to 40% of his shots were from three.

I just think, with his coordination, quickness, athleticism, shooting prowess, etc., he could have been murder from 15 feet -- getting to the line more and developing some ability to finish occasionally with his left.

Anyway, at the end of the day he had a nice career and we had a lot of success with him on the roster. We should be fine with Southerland and Fair, but KJ was a good player on some pretty great teams.

all i read in this post is "woulda coulda shoulda" but at the end of the day "didn't".

 

[SoBeCuse]

fine, it's one play and i get that. please understand that i am not hating on kris for the sake of it. the rebound play was the one that really bothered me. people on this board have always linked mookie and kevin jones, what about if we had taken kevin jones instead of kris? no one can convince me that jones has more physical talent than kris, he just has more drive.

Jones is also in way better shape. I don't think Kris's conditioning was the greatest. I turned to my friend mid 1H and we both noticed that Kris looked gassed and was sucking wind.