Joseph's numbers by month

[billsin01]

all i read in this post is "woulda coulda shoulda" but at the end of the day "didn't".

Wow. Well, I get where you're coming from in that I think, at the end of the day, KJ was a bit frustrating b/c he had a lot of talent and didn't quite get to where most thought he could get.

Of course, 1476 points, good leadership, unselfishness and 91 wins in a three-year stretch that included a sweet 16 and an elite 8 is quite a bit of "did." By any objective standard.

 

[orangenirvana]

I consider Kris soft and didn't think he liked to get physical after his nasty fall. There is a difference between not trying and not being physical. Reggie Miller was soft but I wouldn't call him lazy.

Reggie Miller was mentally tough as nails. Joseph was not only physically soft, but even worse psychologically.

I hate that my thoughts of Joseph will forever be tainted by memories of his critical turnover in the final minutes of the Ohio State game.

Joseph was the anti-Wallace

Harsh, I know, but...

 

[ORRange]

In the "QandA" Mike Waters was asked if Kris was injured. His response was that Kris never told him about an injury and that Kris looked fine. Mike Waters would know. End of speculation.

 

[Millhouse]

I consider Kris soft and didn't think he liked to get physical after his nasty fall. There is a difference between not trying and not being physical. Reggie Miller was soft but I wouldn't call him lazy.

you can be a little soft if you play shooting guard (which is generally how i think of miller). forwards have to rebound. especially at syracuse where the centers try to block everything.

 

[SBU72]

I think this about sums it up. Really hard not to like him and I actually think people tend to underrate his ability. Kid runs like a guard and is a very capable shooter, especially in the mid-range area. Capable of rebounding and really solid defensively. Takes criticism for his handle, but people forget he's 6-7. Shump/Hak/Brown/Johnson? Those guys couldn't have taken the ball on the wing at 22-feet and made something happen off the dribble. (and Melo, who has been an NBA all-star, was also criticized heavily for his handle.)

I think the issue with KJ's handle was really that KJ saw himself as a guy who should get the ball at 22 feet instead of at 12-15 feet. He was quick enough and coordinated enough to create off the dribble from there but his tendency to live out there got him in trouble more often than it helped him out. Close to 40% of his shots were from three.

I just think, with his coordination, quickness, athleticism, shooting prowess, etc., he could have been murder from 15 feet -- getting to the line more and developing some ability to finish occasionally with his left.

Anyway, at the end of the day he had a nice career and we had a lot of success with him on the roster. We should be fine with Southerland and Fair, but KJ was a good player on some pretty great teams.

His handle was so good that he dribbled the ball off his leg/foot at LEAST once a game and often twice. Usually right around the foul line. That was the cause of him turning the ball over late in the game. Ball off his leg and he dribbled it out of bounds recovering it.

 

[br801]

In the "QandA" Mike Waters was asked if Kris was injured. His response was that Kris never told him about an injury and that Kris looked fine. Mike Waters would know. End of speculation.

Well that would seem to settle it because Mike Waters is all-knowing.

Historically, neither JB nor his players have spoken openly about injuries either before games or after, and I can't recall an instance where anyone cited injuries as an excuse for sub-par performance or losing a game. Just something to chew on.

 

[SmilinBob]

After watching Mad Men on Sunday I think I know why Kris looked a little worn out.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Kris was a solid talent that had tantalizing potential but never lived up to maybe somewhat optimistic projections (as one poster put it, the Carmelo Stick). At the same time, though, Bobby Knight loved the kid and Knight knows a thing or two about basketball players. Offensively, Joseph had all the talent needed, but I think the concussion and knee injuries slowed Kris down and he leaned too heavily on the three. Defensively, he was slow to react on perimeter shooters and could get beat. I don't know how many threes I watched him leak too far away from the shooter and then be caught flat footed when the offense made the pass to the shooter. Against OSU he was beaten badly for an easy dunk and was yanked immediately afterwards.

Great kid, good career, and a solid player, but he was the also the victim of optimistic expectations.

 

[orangenirvana]

Great kid, good career, and a solid player, but he was the also the victim of optimistic expectations.

Hmm, okay...I guess you could call any person in life who falls short of their potential a "victim of optimistic expectations."

 

[MikeSU02]

(All these are rounded up)

Jan he was 13 ppg 4 rebounds
Feb he was 16 and 6
March he was 10 and 3

Last 4 games against non 16 seeds, 9.25 ppg 1.25 rpg

I feel bad for scoop because I feel like he gave his all

I have my doubts about Joseph

I feel like Kris fit the role of sixth man perfectly. He wasn't a workout warrior, probably more dinged up/injured than we knew and had some limitations as to what he could do on a court.

I think expectations were too high for him, but he was a good player, from what I know a good teammate and a good representative of the university.

He'll always be Syracuse family, but it will be tough to watch that OSU game and not think of his play in it (fair or not).

 

[SoBeCuse]

Reggie Miller was mentally tough as nails. Joseph was not only physically soft, but even worse psychologically.

I hate that my thoughts of Joseph will forever be tainted by memories of his critical turnover in the final minutes of the Ohio State game.

Joseph was the anti-Wallace

Harsh, I know, but...

I agree with this. It wasn't just that one turnover in the OSU game which for me taints it even more. I think there was another time in the game where he dribbled it out of bounds along the baseline. Another play was that crazy pass to Triche when he was caught up in the air. We had momentum. It was a one possession game late 2H I believe and he raced down the court with the ball. I think it was a 2 on 2 break and he got caught in the air facing the basket, did a 180 in the air, and fired a bullet pass back to a surprised Triche who had no chance on that one. Terrible play.

 

[SWC75]

Jones is also in way better shape. I don't think Kris's conditioning was the greatest. I turned to my friend mid 1H and we both noticed that Kris looked gassed and was sucking wind.

We got Mookie instead of Kevin, not Kris. If we'd had Kevin jones- a legit power power forward- with this team, (and still had Fab), we might have gone 40-0.

 

[KevMonstah]

Kris was a solid talent that had tantalizing potential but never lived up to maybe somewhat optimistic projections (as one poster put it, the Carmelo Stick). At the same time, though, Bobby Knight loved the kid and Knight knows a thing or two about basketball players. Offensively, Joseph had all the talent needed, but I think the concussion and knee injuries slowed Kris down and he leaned too heavily on the three. Defensively, he was slow to react on perimeter shooters and could get beat. I don't know how many threes I watched him leak too far away from the shooter and then be caught flat footed when the offense made the pass to the shooter. Against OSU he was beaten badly for an easy dunk and was yanked immediately afterwards.

Great kid, good career, and a solid player, but he was the also the victim of optimistic expectations.

This is a great post. Fans had been waiting/hoping/expecting him to become "The Guy" since his junior year. He had all the talent and all the ability, but he didn't become what we were hoping for, which was Wes v2.0. Those weren't unrealistic given where he started, but he just didn't get there.

The part that bothered me most was how many times he'd get sucked up from the corner on defense, only to see a made three pointer from the guy occupying the space he just left. You'd see that happen at least 2-3 times per game, and I kept wondering "He's a senior right? Been playing this defense for four years? And this STILL happens to him?"

He was a very good player for the system SU uses, but fell 2-3 ppg and 4rpg short of what the fans wanted out of him.

Kev

 

[samspann1]

To echo the last poster, I don't think that he was a particularly good zone defender.

The rebounding...I just don't get it. I never understood how/why he didn't snag more boards than he did. Nothing more frustrating than watching him tip a missed shot, when he could've clearly corraled the ball. What was up with that?

 

[billsin01]

His handle was so good that he dribbled the ball off his leg/foot at LEAST once a game and often twice.

I love when people make things up. He turned the ball over 1.5 times a game. Are you saying each of his turnovers this year was over-dribbling? He dribbled far more than he should have, we're all in agreement. I just think people confuse "bad handle" with "excessive handle." Kris did too much "between the legs, cross-over" stuff and not enough going to the basket.

 

[br801]

I love when people make things up. He turned the ball over 1.5 times a game. Are you saying each of his turnovers this year was over-dribbling? He dribbled far more than he should have, we're all in agreement. I just think people confuse "bad handle" with "excessive handle." Kris did too much "between the legs, cross-over" stuff and not enough going to the basket.

And since offensive fouls count as turnovers, this means that Joseph must have never committed a turnover by throwing a bad pass or mishandling a pass. So at least we know his hands are good. Maybe his shoes were just a size too big.

 

[SBU72]

I love when people make things up. He turned the ball over 1.5 times a game. Are you saying each of his turnovers this year was over-dribbling? He dribbled far more than he should have, we're all in agreement. I just think people confuse "bad handle" with "excessive handle." Kris did too much "between the legs, cross-over" stuff and not enough going to the basket.

No, I was only pointing out that every game (or almost every game) he dribbled the ball of his leg. I have the tapes that show it. Usually he did it while crossing the lane at the foul line. He did NOT always turn the ball over when he did so since the ball usually went away from his defender. It did however effectively STOP his drive. During the OSU game he did it while on the base line and was unable to recover it before it went out of bounds. Also since he was not known as a point forward, having only 1 more assist than TO's where do you think many of his TO came from? Passing? They were probably fairly evenly split between charges and dribbling.

 

[SWC75]

This might be an interesitng discussion: JB emphasized that we would go as far as the seniors would take us. Scoop had a fine tournament, Kris a disappointing one, Yet down the stretch vs. Ohio State Kris was on the court and Scoop, his point guard, was on the bench. Why did he consider it important to have Kris out there but not Scoop? Is the real comaprison with the alternatives? Dion and Brandon are better than CJ and James so we had to have Kris out there but didn't need Scoop? I still think he could have gone to a three guard offense when he was pressing. Scoop could actually have replaced Kris.

 

[billsin01]

[quote="SBU72, post: 250819, member: 741"Also since he was not known as a point forward, having only 1 more assist than TO's where do you think many of his TO came from? Passing? They were probably fairly evenly split between charges and dribbling.[/quote]

This honestly makes no sense. It's not like you have to run the offense to get passes picked. I'm sure he had a decent number of errant passes over the course of the year. If you want to go through all the game films and count it all up, I"m cool with it -- even if you prove me wrong. But short of that you're simply stating something you observed anecdotally as fact.