JR year Frank Howard vs Sr year Jason Hart

[CuseFaninVT]

Fair point. I agree with OrangeDW, though, that Hart probably wasn't any better offensively than Frank is now (though, as I noted above, Hart hit a ton of huge pull-up 16-footers his senior year). The big difference to me is on defense where the comparison is between a slightly-above-average defender and a great defender, and the offensive comparison is difficult to make because their respective roles in their offenses was so different.

As an aside, this is a good thread. Lots of intelligent discussion without anyone personalizing things.

Talk to me about these pull-up 16-footers. I've heard talk of these from the old-timers, but they are rarely spotted these days.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

And Hart was roundly ridiculed during his time on the Hill.

Freshman Hart was god awful. In his defense, he was the only point guard on the team and essentially learned the job in real time. Plus, he didn’t want to be here. JB wouldn’t let him out of his LOI. Turns out it was a great match at the end of the day.

 

[RF2044]

Hart was one of the worst finishers at the rim of any player in SU history. The guy would blow by his man and then throw a torpedo at the backboard. He was an astute passer in the halfcourt, but not so much off the dribble, so even though he got into the lane he didn't really create a lot of offense when he did. His huge turnover numbers were mostly due to speeding up and going to too fast then throwing a laser beam into the second row (I actually caught one of his passes when I was a grad student!), or speeding up and going too fast and running over a defender (charge). He did have a very nice SR year leading a team that was top 25 all season, hitting a ton of big shots, but that was a much more balanced team than this year's team. I hate to think of what he'd look like on a team with only 2 other scorers.

I will say that Hart was probably the best player I ever saw at SU during practices. This kid worked sooooo damn hard and was literally unguardable in practice. If he could have translated his play from practice to gametime, he would have been a 1st team All-American. Must have been really frustrating for Boeheim.

I'll back that up about practice -- over the years, we've never had kids work as hard in practice as Jason Hart and Allen Griffin. Talk about going 150% all the time -- didn't matter whether it was a drill, a sprint, or whatever -- those guys went full tilt and really pushed each other. Easy kids to root for.

I remember one time they were doing runs after practice. Length of the court, up and back. The rest of the team is fatigued, and running hard but going about 3/4 speed. Not those two. Every sprint was a personal challenge for them. So, Hart and Griffin are running as hard as they can, neck-and-neck, and Hart dives to win the sprint. JB blows the whistle and goes crazy, chastising Hart about hurting himself. Just the way those two were wired.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Hart was one of the worst finishers at the rim of any player in SU history. The guy would blow by his man and then throw a torpedo at the backboard. He was an astute passer in the halfcourt, but not so much off the dribble, so even though he got into the lane he didn't really create a lot of offense when he did. His huge turnover numbers were mostly due to speeding up and going to too fast then throwing a laser beam into the second row (I actually caught one of his passes when I was a grad student!), or speeding up and going too fast and running over a defender (charge). He did have a very nice SR year leading a team that was top 25 all season, hitting a ton of big shots, but that was a much more balanced team than this year's team. I hate to think of what he'd look like on a team with only 2 other scorers.

I will say that Hart was probably the best player I ever saw at SU during practices. This kid worked sooooo damn hard and was literally unguardable in practice. If he could have translated his play from practice to gametime, he would have been a 1st team All-American. Must have been really frustrating for Boeheim.

Ha, now that you mention it I remember some of those finishes and a “torpedo” or two. Yes, also the plowing into people full speed I remember also. I generally liked his game and moxie though.

 

[OttoMets]

Hart ... I hate to think of what he'd look like on a team with only 2 other scorers.

Syracuse Basketball 1996-1997

 

[TinyManInside]

Syracuse Basketball 1996-1997

oh, I know... I remember 96-97 quite vividly... but we were talking about SR Hart, not FR Hart. That 96-97 season was the low point for Boeheim basketball for nearly 20 years.

 

[RF2044]

oh, I know... I remember 96-97 quite vividly... but we were talking about SR Hart, not FR Hart. That 96-97 season was the low point for Boeheim basketball for nearly 20 years.

...highlighted by the disqualification of McD's all american Winfred Walton in the preseason.

Season was over before it began -- that year was brutal.

 

[Madbiker]

Hart is an interesting comparison. Another guy who made you want to pull your hair out with bad turnovers and missed open jumpers.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Freshman Hart was god awful. In his defense, he was the only point guard on the team and essentially learned the job in real time. Plus, he didn’t want to be here. JB wouldn’t let him out of his LOI. Turns out it was a great match at the end of the day.

He was tampered with by the UCLA coach, after he missed out on his PG (names escape me.) That's why JB wouldn't let him go.

 

[Cusefan0307]

He was tampered with by the UCLA coach, after he missed out on his PG (names escape me.) That's why JB wouldn't let him go.

It was Steve Lavin.

 

[MSOrange]

...highlighted by the disqualification of McD's all american Winfred Walton in the preseason.

Season was over before it began -- that year was brutal.

I remember playing Kentucky in the championship "rematch" in the Great Alaska Shootout. Well as much as you can call it a rematch without Wallace, Sims etc. One of the few times I just knew leading up to a game that we had no chance.

 

[MSOrange]

It was Steve Lavin.

Actually I think Jim Harrick was still at UCLA at the time.

 

[JOC44]

He was tampered with by the UCLA coach, after he missed out on his PG (names escape me.) That's why JB wouldn't let him go.

I believe the PG was Oujimi Mann or something like that. The guy didn't qualify academically. And, yes, it was Harrick not Lavin.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Must have been just before Harrick got fired.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I remember playing Kentucky in the championship "rematch" in the Great Alaska Shootout. Well as much as you can call it a rematch without Wallace, Sims etc. One of the few times I just knew leading up to a game that we had no chance.

Yeah that was rough. First time Hart was facing good competition. He was so overmatched against Turner/Edwards/Epps. Turner was a soph then.

 

[thebigeast44]

Hart was clearly better than Frank will ever be IMHO and is arguably the best defensive point guard ever to play at SU.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Hart was clearly better than Frank will ever be IMHO and is arguably the best defensive point guard ever to play at SU.

Fast Eddie says what?

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

He was tampered with by the UCLA coach, after he missed out on his PG (names escape me.) That's why JB wouldn't let him go.

Yep,Harrick always was an unethical coach.