JUCO/Grad Transfer Wish List

[OrangeXtreme]

Kansas State filled their roster every year with JUCOs under the previous coach whose name I can't remember. They did very well with that strategy.

K State's academic standards are less than impressive.

They can get kids in that have no shot at getting admitted to Syracuse.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

K State's academic standards are less than impressive.

They can get kids in that have no shot at getting admitted to Syracuse.

True dat

 

[MaxwellCuse]

K State's academic standards are less than impressive.

They can get kids in that have no shot at getting admitted to Syracuse.

Kansas State is much more selective than they used to be. 93% of applicants were accepted last year. Several years back it was 99%.

 

[721Comstock]

Kansas State is much more selective than they used to be. 93% of applicants were accepted last year. Several years back it was 99%.

“much more selective” = ‘only’ saying yes to over 9 out of 10 of the quality of applicants drawn to that school, vs 10/10.
Very selective!

 

[RF2044]

Kansas State filled their roster every year with JUCOs under the previous coach whose name I can't remember. They did very well with that strategy.

I knew this was going to come up.

Referencing Kansas State -- which sits in the middle of a corridor of some of the biggest JUCO football factories and has incredibly low academic standards -- as a model we should follow shows a lack of perspective about junior college recruiting. Syracuse isn't even close to ONE junior college on par with what they have out there, let alone numerous. It's also easy for KSU to devote resources to actively recruiting those places, since they are in close relative proximity.

Teams all over the southwest can pursue this strategy a LOT more easily, given the abundance of JUCO football in places like Texas, Kansas, etc. Not feasible for a program like ours to rely upon the junior college ranks. To supplement? Sure, but not to sustain.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

I knew this was going to come up.

Referencing Kansas State -- which sits in the middle of a corridor of some of the biggest JUCO football factories and has incredibly low academic standards -- as a model we should follow shows a lack of perspective about junior college recruiting. Syracuse isn't even close to ONE junior college on par with what they have out there, let alone numerous. It's also easy for KSU to devote resources to actively recruiting those places, since they are in close relative proximity.

Teams all over the southwest can pursue this strategy a LOT more easily, given the abundance of JUCO football in places like Texas, Kansas, etc. Not feasible for a program like ours to rely upon the junior college ranks. To supplement? Sure, but not to sustain.

We don't need to use JUCO's etc. as a primary recruiting strategy, but we sure as hell need JUCOs to bridge the talent gap created by poor conventional recruiting.

 

[RF2044]

We don't need to use JUCO's etc. as a primary recruiting strategy, but we sure as hell need JUCOs to bridge the talent gap created by poor conventional recruiting.

Do we? Or is that "talent gap" being overblown?

I know that this year sucks, but it feels like we are a piece or two away -- not that the entire recruiting strategy is broken.

Please note, I'm not saying that depth is entirely where it needs to be. But if both Heckel / Duering hadn't gotten injured, maybe the OL wouldn't have sucked all year, maybe Servais would have been better at LT than Vetterello, etc. These things have a cascade effect.

I know it is going to be controversial, but our coaching staff didn't forget how to coach from last year. We have a lot of talent. Honestly, we need the OL to be better. We need improved depth at a couple of key positions. We need more effective QB play. We're probably not all that far off from those things happening -- especially if our play in the second half Saturday was a sign that DeVito / the offense / blocking are turning the corner.

 

[PhatOrange]

JUCO recruiting is no different than regular recruiting. The top JUCOs get picked over. There are still good one's available but there's competition for them. It's not that easy to find an impact JUCO starter as people might think.

Here's a snapshot of the top 50 JUCO's and where they're headed. Of the Top 50, 17 are not committed. The SEC has 14/50 verbal commitments from JUCOs. After the Top50 there are still good players committed to P5 schools (16) and kid's available. How good they are is anyone's guess. Of the top 50, here is what's left that I'd consider a need - 3 OTs (one of which we're involved with), 1 DT, 1 OLB

Mississippi State - 7
Penn State - 2
Memphis - 2
Auburn - 2
Oregon State - 2
Oregon - 2
Louisville - 2
UCLA - 2
Nebraska - 1
Texas A&M - 1
Oklahoma - 1
LSU - 1
TCU - 1
NC State - 1
Kansas State - 1
Ole Miss - 1
South Carolina - 1
Tennessee - 1
UAB - 1

(Miss State has 9 JUCOs committed by my count).

Offensive Tackles

2020 Top Offensive Tackle Recruits

The 247Sports rankings are determined by our recruiting analysts after countless hours of personal observations, film evaluation and input from our network of scouts.

247sports.com

Defensive Tackles

2020 Top Defensive Tackle Recruits

The 247Sports rankings are determined by our recruiting analysts after countless hours of personal observations, film evaluation and input from our network of scouts.

247sports.com

No Centers listed. I would imagine there are some JUCO centers out there who can play D1. Most everyone plays out of shotgun now.

 

[RF2044]

The top JUCOs get picked over. There are still good one's available but there's competition for them. It's not that easy to find an impact JUCO starter as people might think.

Yup.

Which is why I always shrug my shoulders when people suggest JUCO as the quick fix, as if all we have to do is go find a starting LT, a QB, etc. and plug them in.

It is a LOT easier for teams in the south, southwest, and west coast -- where JUCO talent abounds.

 

[phil77]

OL OL OL OL OL OL

 

[SoBristol]

- - -,And this is the issue I have with this thread -- the question is NOT whether we can get some quality players via JUCO, it is whether we can consistently land starting caliber players via that route. Somebody posted above that we need a talent infusion, but I don't believe that it is realistic to expect that we can get that from the JUCO ranks.

Supplemental depth? Sure.
Quality prospects who can step right into starting roles? Less likely.
Impact players? Not very often.

I also contend that it is easier to fill some positions via JUCO [i.e., linebackers] than it is to find others [OT, DT, etc.]. In part, I think that's what explains us having success with Guthrie, Williams, Siriki Diabate [back in the day], etc.

I think you are under-valuing several juco players, stretching to justify your first post. Pierce was a star juco, brought in to fill a big hole in our roster. Guthrie was a juco AA, who would have played in his first year here if we did not have a 4-year starter in Franklin.

We got Tisdale from Lackawanna — the two best linemen on his team were recruited by Penn State and Tennessee. You mentioned Diabate, but not Tiller (same era) — who helped complete Marrone’s OL.

In fairness, compare our juco recruiting to who we have landed through high school recruiting. If we were building a talented and deep roster through normal recruiting, we would not be getting waxed by ACC competition. As it stands, there have to be juco linemen (OL and DL) who would be upgrades to what we have for 2020.

Not suggesting a wholesale commitment to jucos and grads — but we need help at CB, DT, LB, QB and OT. 2 grads, 3 jucos — seems about right.

 

[RF2044]

I think you are under-valuing several juco players, stretching to justify your first post. Pierce was a star juco, brought in to fill a big hole in our roster. Guthrie was a juco AA, who would have played in his first year here if we did not have a 4-year starter in Franklin.

We got Tisdale from Lackawanna — the two best linemen on his team were recruited by Penn State and Tennessee. You mentioned Diabate, but not Tiller (same era) — who helped complete Marrone’s OL.

In fairness, compare our juco recruiting to who we have landed through high school recruiting. If we were building a talented and deep roster through normal recruiting, we would not be getting waxed by ACC competition. As it stands, there have to be juco linemen (OL and DL) who would be upgrades to what we have for 2020.

Not suggesting a wholesale commitment to jucos and grads — but we need help at CB, DT, LB, QB and OT. 2 grads, 3 jucos — seems about right.

I'm not strecthing at all, and I'm certainly not undervaluing their contributions while on the hill. You said in the post that I responded to that none of our JUCOs was overlooked -- I pointed out that Guthrie was. Stating that fact does not detract from his contributions -- he was awesome last year. That doesn't change that we were his top [and I believe only] P5 offer.

Pierce being a "star" at the JUCO didn't translate to SU, because he was a headcase. He certainly had his moments, but lost a substantial amount of PT last year because his penalties were hurting the team. He was much better as a junior than he was as a senior for that reason. Again, pointing that out doesn't detract from his capabilities, but I think you are overstating his impact -- especially last year.

Tisdale -- what's there to say? He hasn't played much yet -- hope he turns out great, but I certainly don't think we can determine that at this point. Certainly not enough to point to him as an upgrade. Hope it comes to pass, time will tell.

I mentioned Diabate but not Tiller because I was making a point about it being easier to recruit some positions -- such as LB -- than other positions which are more highly coveted. That's why I discussed him with Guthrie / Williams as examples of guys who are undervalued nationally, but a position we've had success recruiting at the JUCO level moreso than most other positional units.

You seem to be mistakenly be attempting against the position that we can't get quality JUCOs. That is not the point I am making. We can, but not to the extent that many in this and other threads suggest, and some potional units will have more abundant talent than others. If we could land a stud JUCO LT for example to solve the OL issues, why wouldn't the coaching staff have already done so?

Every year, the forum has several "we need to recruit some JUCOs" threads. It reminds me of the classic Steve Martin bit about how to be a millionaire and not pay any taxes. Step 1: get a million dollars...

I am all for bringing in the top talent we can. If those are JUCOs, fine. But recruiting JUCOs is not some magic bullet to shore up every hole the team has. It hasn't been historically, and it isn't now. As a supplement to traditional recruiting? All for it.

 

[SmilinBob]

If it's an OL guy, he HAS to be at SU in the spring. This learning curve stuff won't cut it, have to be ready out of the gate.

 

[Consigliere]

If it's an OL guy, he HAS to be at SU in the spring. This learning curve stuff won't cut it, have to be ready out of the gate.

Learning curve and CONDITIONING. Watching some of the early season games again, after a couple of plays Alexander was the last guy back to the line ready to go. Clearly not ready to play at pace.