Just for fun and information

[OttoinGrotto]

Claude is the one who concerns me. Not only does he struggle from 3, but only had a 4.3/3.5 assist to turnover ratio. Would prefer someone with at least a 2/1 ratio, and more like a 37-38 % rate from 3, even if he isn’t as much of a scorer as Claude.

So, here's the thing though - how many guys play the point guard position that shoot that percentage, have that a/t ratio, have performed at a level we expect will translate to our conference, and also want to play for us?

 

[MikeSU02]

Claude and JJ are the same player. I get liking what he can do, but it's awfully similar to what we did with Mintz and JJ together. He's not a good defender either.

Watkins is great. If he was the SF I could live with it if the other 2 weren't the guards. He can't shoot either. He does everything else average to good.

It appears Red is making a lot of the same mistakes Hop did at UW. After his first year Hop thought he needed more athleticism. His offenses were always terrible. I see the same thing happening here. The pieces are too similar

Between JJ, Claude and Watkins that would be 3 guys who combined for 40 shot attempts, shot 30% from 3 and combined for 9 turnovers last year. Watkins is the only one of the 3 that can defend.

Love Ballard though. I'd be really happy with that pickup.

That said it screams of a team that looks better on paper than real life. It would be the equivalent of playing Russell Westbrook, Bradley Beal, and Paul George together in the NBA. All of them need the ball to be effective.

JJ's value to us is directly related to driving lanes available on the floor on offense. His shooting might marginally get better, but won't spike.

That starting lineup, to your point, would not allow that.

I like the pieces, sort of. But as a whole, those five wouldn't be good, especially with a coach like Red (sorry, I can't give him the grace to assume he can figure that out).

Also, keep in mind in even the example you used, Westbrook had extraterrestrial level athleticism.

I want to be clear, I'm not trying to be negative off the bat, I just think that the best crew we can put out there will be more balanced, not rely on JJ as much and will feature Donnie more.

 

[Cusefan0307]

My point in doing this exercise is that you give up something to get something. A better shooting 1 or 3 would be great. They also might not (probably wouldn't) provide other things that Claude and Watkins do.

I get that. I really do. That said you can get one shooter and another guy whos a slasher. It appears based on the tea leaves you've dropped that Red does not care if he has good shooters next year. I happen to think that's a big mistake.

 

[Fly Rodder]

If the goal is more guys who can create their own shot and be solid with mid-range jumpers and have threes be the weapon of last resort then I will be unimpressed with the lessons learned from this season.

 

[VikesCuse84]

Watkins game frustrates me as an opponent, because he is so damn physical and forces teams to foul him. If he were wearing Orange, I would love it, because the dude is TOUGH and physical. We need both of those attributes. I love the athleticism of that whole lineup. As mentioned, it lacks shooting, but that team would compete every game and it would have senior leadership and toughness. I would sign up for that.

Agreed. I’m willing to give up some shooting if it means tough defensive minded athletic players. Sure it would be frustrating if/when they lose 60-55 or something, but I think it’s more enjoyable to watch a team that gives max effort on the defensive end and it gives a better chance at making it to March than trying to win needing to score 85+ points.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Agreed. I’m willing to give up some shooting if it means tough defensive minded athletic players. Sure it would be frustrating if/when they lose 60-55 or something, but I think it’s more enjoyable to watch a team that gives max effort on the defensive end and it gives a better chance at making it to March than trying to win needing to score 85+ points.

What makes you think they are good defenders?

 

[orangefog]

Agreed. I’m willing to give up some shooting if it means tough defensive minded athletic players. Sure it would be frustrating if/when they lose 60-55 or something, but I think it’s more enjoyable to watch a team that gives max effort on the defensive end and it gives a better chance at making it to March than trying to win needing to score 85+ points.

I feel like getting the right group of players will give us the swag that we have been missing for many years. Guys that play like wearing the Orange is something special and that you will freaking respect playing Syracuse.

 

[VikesCuse84]

What makes you think they are good defenders?

I wasn’t referring to any specific players I was responding to orangefog about wanting/needing to add toughness to the roster. I’m equating it to defense and effort and just saying I’d be willing to build a roster that doesn’t have elite shooters if it had a bunch of athletes that play tough defense.

 

[cusefan88]

I'm surprised there isn't much interest in Jayden Pierre from Providence. NJ PG. Decent numbers for them. Probably would fit better? Who knows anymore.

 

[Newhouser]

I don't know that we could get nate to come here as a backup. Real nice player that would give us something we need though.

You think White was promised a starting spot?

 

[Fly Rodder]

So, here's the thing though - how many guys play the point guard position that shoot that percentage, have that a/t ratio, have performed at a level we expect will translate to our conference, and also want to play for us?

Part of the work Kline needs to do is identify those guys who can do that, but maybe haven't yet. Like Elijah Hughes for ECU, his numbers were ... meh.

But I plugged this into BBRef:
For single seasons, in 2024-25, in NCAA D-I Men's Basketball, played G, per game, as a Freshman or Sophomore or Junior, requiring Assist Percentage >= 20.0 and Free Throw Percentage >= .75 and 3-Point Field Goal Percentage >= .35 and Turnover Percentage <= 12.0, sorted by descending Points.

There were 13 players and a few are in the portal.
This guy is interesting. NYC kid and he entered the portal two days ago.

Brian Moore Jr. College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Brian Moore Jr. - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

Chicago area kid playing in California.

Jemel Jones College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Jemel Jones - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

Kamari Jones could be an under the radar guy, he didn't play much last year, but could get another 3 years.

Maryland kid, all AEC frosh at UMass Lowell getting a lot of P4 interest.

Martin Somerville College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Martin Somerville - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

Somerville started 11 of the 28 games he played for the River Hawks in 2024-25, averaging 13.5 points, 3.6 assists, and 2.9 rebounds in 31.7 minutes per game. He shot 40.8 percent from the field and 39 percent from three-point range on nearly 6 attempts per game.

 

[Niastri]

I missed the part last year when we added 2 17+ points/game proven dynamic scorers from P5 programs.

Yeah, our starting lineup would come into the season having averaged 18, 18, 16, 14, 10.

 

[Fly Rodder]

https://x.com/ColbyGHoops/status/1904571724693200922

 

[Cusefan0307]

Nate Kingz is better than JJ.

 

[sutomcat]

Okay. I did make it clear that this was just for fun. I don't know for sure who we are going to get. I like our chances for Claude a lot. But things happen in life and they can change. Sometimes for the better. But that wasn't the question I asked here. I asked, what would you guys think if that was our team? It doesn't make much sense to me to actually comment on the question by refusing to answer it. Just ignore it would make more sense.

I think we would be a lot better defensively. This past season, we had no above average defenders. Period. It was a horrible mess. We couldn’t stop anyone. It’s a miracle we won as many games as we did given how incredibly incompetent we were on defense.

Based on the defensive metrics for the guys we are adding and the film I have seen, we probably upgrade to being average defensively. Maybe a little better than average. That alone would make a huge difference.

That theoretical team would be awesome at drawing fouls and getting teams in foul trouble.

Judah Mintz was really good at drawing fouls. We can all agree on that, right?

He took 185 FTs his frosh season. Desmond Claude took 196 last season. And Jamir Watkins?

He took 247.

Even JJ took 127.

And then there is Freeman, who had 99 FT attempts in 14 games. I would expect him to improve on that next season.

I think this would be a fun team to watch play. Teams would almost have to zone us. Of course, with our lack of outside shooting, it would often pretty effective.

 

[dasher]

You think White was promised a starting spot?

No Not a chance

 

[Cusefan0307]

Claude averaged 4.3 turnovers a game in Big 10 play with 102 offensive rating and 119 defensive rating. Starling shot 25% from 3 with a 98 offensive rating and 115 defensive rating. That's not a winning backcourt.

 

[Cappy3]

I guess my feeling is we need a competent point more than another scorer at the 1. Claude has basically a 1/1 assist/turnover ratio. We already have one like that in Starling. If you can live with that kind of point, I’d rather let JJ stay there and go after a 2 guard who can shoot from 3.

 

[DoctahLexus]

What are the odds that Kiyan comes in and provides some quality shooting off the bench? Feels like an area he could help similar to Moore last year. Also don't forget that Donnie was looking better from range as the season went on.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Claude and JJ are the same player. I get liking what he can do, but it's awfully similar to what we did with Mintz and JJ together. He's not a good defender either.

Watkins is great. If he was the SF I could live with it if the other 2 weren't the guards. He can't shoot either. He does everything else average to good.

It appears Red is making a lot of the same mistakes Hop did at UW. After his first year Hop thought he needed more athleticism. His offenses were always terrible. I see the same thing happening here. The pieces are too similar

Between JJ, Claude and Watkins that would be 3 guys who combined for 40 shot attempts, shot 30% from 3 and combined for 9 turnovers last year. Watkins is the only one of the 3 that can defend.

Love Ballard though. I'd be really happy with that pickup.

That said it screams of a team that looks better on paper than real life. It would be the equivalent of playing Russell Westbrook, Bradley Beal, and Paul George together in the NBA. All of them need the ball to be effective.

Claude has a much better handle than JJ and anyone else on the team. He plays under control going to the hoop and shows the ability to change speed and maneuver getting to the basket. We have no one who can do that. He’s really crafty when he gets into the lane. He doesn’t just put his head down and barrel to the basket. Reminds me a little of Edelin but a much better shooter.

 

[powdersmack]

I don't know if I can stomach another team where no one shoots threes any better than my tired old ass could.

 

[orangefog]

Claude has a much better handle than JJ and anyone else on the team. He plays under control going to the hoop and shows the ability to change speed and maneuver getting to the basket. We have no one who can do that. He’s really crafty when he gets into the lane. He doesn’t just put his head down and barrel to the basket. Reminds me a little of Edelin but a much better shooter.

That's the thing with JJ. Once he gets in to attack mode, there is no plan B. It's pretty easy to force him left and have a big man waiting for him when he gets near the basket. Good teams did just that. It's a lot different having someone drive under control with their eyes up and looking for opportunities to dish for open looks.

 

[Jake]

I think what Dasher is saying is…this is essentially the plan with some potential changes.

It’s also why Petar is considering his options, it would move him to where I think his game should be on a tourney team - an emergency option.

You could get a similar team with some different options, but this is the blueprint.

 

[Red2003]

How many comments do we have to read about needing better 3 point shooting %...

We ran the 1-3 with Carlos/JJ/Cuffe/Bell/Taylor most of ACC play this year. It cannot be worse.

Oddly enough Taylor was the only player with somewhat reasonable shooting %'s by end of year and that's with laying 2 eggs the last 2 games of his college career in the ACCT.. The rest of the above were a mess because none of them could shoot consistently. Pretty easy for any decent defense to only have to worry about 1-2 players on our team any given game.

Everyone's shooting % will go up if everyone can shoot on the court. Last year everyone's shooting % stunk because only 1 person on the team was allowed to have a good shooting night at once. I believe that was one of Autry's rules, only one person was allowed to shoot well per night.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Claude averaged 4.3 turnovers a game in Big 10 play with 102 offensive rating and 119 defensive rating. Starling shot 25% from 3 with a 98 offensive rating and 115 defensive rating. That's not a winning backcourt.

You need to keep in mind the style of play Musselman at USC likes to play. He likes a fast, helter skelter style of game that’s prone to turnovers.