Just how close was the ACC to imploading?

[Scooch]

Not sure who wold be doing some undercover orchestration especially in the ACC. They had been in survival mode and weren't considered one of the big boys. Just know that even just 5 years ago most doubted things wold even be where they are now. I've always said 4x16 and I remember everyone ripping that. I remember saying the big schools wold break from the NCAA. Just last week a school admin said 5x16 someday. But no matter exactly how anything ends, it is fact that a very few thought that mega conferences with league championships (then a playoff) would ever happen.

Again, really?

The first time I visited a college sports message board was in 1996, and people were talking about conference expansion then. Once the SEC went to 12 in 1992 and got a lucrative championship game many, many people figured that would be the wave of the future.

Maybe we're just talking past each other.

 

[rrlbees]

Again, really?

The first time I visited a college sports message board was in 1996, and people were talking about conference expansion then. Once the SEC went to 12 in 1992 and got a lucrative championship game many, many people figured that would be the wave of the future.

Maybe we're just talking past each other.

Revisionist history. I know what this board and many others were like 10-15 years ago. 99% said no way there would be a 4x16 or a 5x14 or anything like it. Vince Dooley who first said it was considered a drunk.


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[Scooch]

Revisionist history. I know what this board and many others were like 10-15 years ago. 99% said no way there would be a 4x16 or a 5x14 or anything like it. Vince Dooley who first said it was considered a drunk.

OK, but, again, that wasn't my point.

10 years ago we had three major conferences of 12 and another with 11, so I'm not sure how 99% of people thought a 14-team conference was inconceivable, but whatever.

My point is that there were some who during the process of realignment suggested that the entire thing was calculated and orchestrated. As if there was a treasure map somewhere that was being followed. We know that wasn't the case, and every release of emails showing administrators scurrying around like rats on the Titanic after every move reinforces it. That was my only point.

 

[Faegan]

It's going to be interesting to see what happens this weekend with the CU/FSU game and then the conference championship game. We need a team to emerge unscathed and play for the title game. I still question Louisville in the Atlantic. I think it would be better to have them in Coastal, at least near term to help the ACC's perception.

 

[Chip]

OK, but, again, that wasn't my point.

10 years ago we had three major conferences of 12 and another with 11, so I'm not sure how 99% of people thought a 14-team conference was inconceivable, but whatever.

My point is that there were some who during the process of realignment suggested that the entire thing was calculated and orchestrated. As if there was a treasure map somewhere that was being followed. We know that wasn't the case, and every release of emails showing administrators scurrying around like rats on the Titanic after every move reinforces it. That was my only point.

Yep. Without references to any individual poster (because I really don't know who said what, and many were external posters who stopped by), there were most certainly a large amount of those who said 4 X 16 was a calculated plan, not an ultimate evolution.

There was obviously no plan, and when you read things like this, you realize that many of the supposed cooler heads are almost as reactionary to this phenomenon as the fans are.

Thank goodness for people like John Swofford. Well, now anyway. When events unfolded as they did in 2003, I might not have said nice things about him. Wasn't his fault back then, but I was angry at everyone. Plus I lived in Virginia, so I'd think strangers at the grocery store were part of the conspiracy.

 

[SU2NASA]

It's going to be interesting to see what happens this weekend with the CU/FSU game and then the conference championship game. We need a team to emerge unscathed and play for the title game. I still question Louisville in the Atlantic. I think it would be better to have them in Coastal, at least near term to help the ACC's perception.

I have a feeling Louisville will be moved to the other division. If they don't, and I'm Clemson or FSU, I scream.

 

[rrlbees]

OK, but, again, that wasn't my point.

10 years ago we had three major conferences of 12 and another with 11, so I'm not sure how 99% of people thought a 14-team conference was inconceivable, but whatever.

My point is that there were some who during the process of realignment suggested that the entire thing was calculated and orchestrated. As if there was a treasure map somewhere that was being followed. We know that wasn't the case, and every release of emails showing administrators scurrying around like rats on the Titanic after every move reinforces it. That was my only point.

Calculated and orchestrated might be a bit overreach but the big boys such as the SEC, B10 and PAC10 sure had a vision. And that vision has been playing out for more than a decade. Just because a conference had 12 teams doesn't mean anything in regards to the vision of the big boys wanting all the money, breaking away from the small schools, having all conferences "look" the same, all conference playoffs leading to a national playoff, and finally breaking away from the NCAA if they didn't play along. The whole vision was poo poo'd and railed on for a long time here and elsewhere. There is no doubt that any mention of a 4x16 or something like it was laughed at here.


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[Alsacs]

It's going to be interesting to see what happens this weekend with the CU/FSU game and then the conference championship game. We need a team to emerge unscathed and play for the title game. I still question Louisville in the Atlantic. I think it would be better to have them in Coastal, at least near term to help the ACC's perception.

Clemson-Florida State vs. Miami-Virginia Tech winner in the ACC Title game will result in a soldout BOA stadium and the negative press from last year will be completely forgotten. If the game is Clemson vs. Virginia Tech like two years ago the ACC could take the tarp off the the upper deck and probably sell the whole stadium out with those fanbases. The ACC wants the championship game to feature two teams with 1 loss combined between them. I like Florida State, but they have @ Clemson, Miami, @Florida, Clemson has Florida State, @South Carolina, Miami has Virginia Tech, @Florida State, and Virginia Tech only has @Miami.

Louisville in the Atlantic is good for the ACC but bad for Syracuse. Florida State and Clemson want as many good teams to play in football as they can and they were the ones that pushed for Louisville so its good for the conference to have them in the Atlantic even though it makes it tougher for us. The ACC just needs Virginia Tech, Miami, Virginia, North Carolina, Pitt, Duke, Georgia Tech to produce 1 top 25 team in the ACC Championship game each year and with Miami's recruiting and UVA, UNC, VPI all recruiting well that shouldn't be a problem in the future.

 

[Phillymoose]

Calculated and orchestrated might be a bit overreach but the big boys such as the SEC, B10 and PAC10 sure had a vision. And that vision has been playing out for more than a decade. Just because a conference had 12 teams doesn't mean anything in regards to the vision of the big boys wanting all the money, breaking away from the small schools, having all conferences "look" the same, all conference playoffs leading to a national playoff, and finally breaking away from the NCAA if they didn't play along. The whole vision was poo poo'd and railed on for a long time here and elsewhere. There is no doubt that any mention of a 4x16 or something like it was laughed at here.

Some laughed and some were skeptical. I didn't see how the economics made sense - how adding a school like Nebraska to the B1G makes economic sense. (Rutgers I can see - - maybe.) I just didn't see how moving beyond 12 was going to bring new money to the table - and that was the shortsightedness. If you could see and predict that - then it really wasn't much of a leap.

Now could the big boys see it then? My guess is they could see rising media rights - but did they really have this long term vision. My guess is it was discussed, in the same way ideas are thrown around here - but there is no way it was a hard plan. If it was a hard plan, there is no way the b1G ends up with Nebraska, Maryland and Rutgers. That was not a part of any master plan. It was an evolution - but kudos to those that saw it coming.

 

[Scooch]

Calculated and orchestrated might be a bit overreach but the big boys such as the SEC, B10 and PAC10 sure had a vision. And that vision has been playing out for more than a decade. Just because a conference had 12 teams doesn't mean anything in regards to the vision of the big boys wanting all the money, breaking away from the small schools, having all conferences "look" the same, all conference playoffs leading to a national playoff, and finally breaking away from the NCAA if they didn't play along. The whole vision was poo poo'd and railed on for a long time here and elsewhere. There is no doubt that any mention of a 4x16 or something like it was laughed at here.

Sure they had a vision. Those conference commissioners are paid to have a vision, just like ADs are paid to always maintain a list of potential head coach replacements.

That vision has been playing out for a lot longer than a decade though, and it was always a fluid vision. You can trace it meaningfully all the way back to the early 90s when the SEC was told by the NCAA that they had to have a 12th team to hold a conference championship game.

Personally I was, and continue to be skeptical of 4X16 because it involves far too much planning and cooperation amongst the power players. One too many conferences would be destroyed, and a few too many programs would be left out. This isn't the pros, where realignment happens regularly for the greater good of the game. This is college, a collection of insanely self-interested parties who would sooner step on their grandmother's neck for an extra few million dollars than do anything that benefits the whole at their own expense.

Where we are now is how that "vision" had to be executed -- that being in a haphazard, chaotic, selfish, and piecemeal manner.

 

[Hoo's That]

I have a feeling Louisville will be moved to the other division. If they don't, and I'm Clemson or FSU, I scream.

Moving Louisville to the Coastal creates work for the Conference Front Office that they're trying their absolute best to avoid. The same holds true for switching rivals. One could argue, however that it really doesn't make a difference because it would hurt Miami and VPI just as much as it hurts Clemson and FSU. Even the Louisville board is concerned about how much of a fall-off they will have when Bridgewater leaves. They're obviously not going to go from what they have now to a 2-10 team, but there's no telling where in the Top 25 they'll end up until the 2104 season is actually played out.

 

[Faegan]

Clemson-Florida State vs. Miami-Virginia Tech winner in the ACC Title game will result in a soldout BOA stadium and the negative press from last year will be completely forgotten. If the game is Clemson vs. Virginia Tech like two years ago the ACC could take the tarp off the the upper deck and probably sell the whole stadium out with those fanbases. The ACC wants the championship game to feature two teams with 1 loss combined between them. I like Florida State, but they have @ Clemson, Miami, @Florida, Clemson has Florida State, @South Carolina, Miami has Virginia Tech, @Florida State, and Virginia Tech only has @Miami.

Louisville in the Atlantic is good for the ACC but bad for Syracuse. Florida State and Clemson want as many good teams to play in football as they can and they were the ones that pushed for Louisville so its good for the conference to have them in the Atlantic even though it makes it tougher for us. The ACC just needs Virginia Tech, Miami, Virginia, North Carolina, Pitt, Duke, Georgia Tech to produce 1 top 25 team in the ACC Championship game each year and with Miami's recruiting and UVA, UNC, VPI all recruiting well that shouldn't be a problem in the future.

Here's why: Louisville beats Clemson, Clemson beats Florida State and then Florida State beats Louisville. All one loss teams, assuming they win out the other games in conference. Then they go to the conference championship game and lose to 1 or 2 loss team from Coastal. The ACC needs a few years where there's a team that comes out unscathed, for all the wrong reasons. Perception, chief among them. If Miami, VT or someone else has a resurgence, it'll be different. But right now the 3 best teams in the same division isn't good if nobody comes out with a goose egg in the L column.

 

[Scooch]

Here's why: Louisville beats Clemson, Clemson beats Florida State and then Florida State beats Louisville. All one loss teams, assuming they win out the other games in conference. Then they go to the conference championship game and lose to 1 or 2 loss team from Coastal. The ACC needs a few years where there's a team that comes out unscathed, for all the wrong reasons. Perception, chief among them. If Miami, VT or someone else has a resurgence, it'll be different. But right now the 3 best teams in the same division isn't good if nobody comes out with a goose egg in the L column.

I get it, but at some point a team just has to win to alter a perception. The SEC has Florida, Georgia and South Carolina on one side; Alabama, LSU, Auburn and Texas A&M on the other. And yet most years someone emerges from that undefeated.

Alignment isn't what's holding back the ACC, IMHO, it's winning.

 

[Alsacs]

Here's why: Louisville beats Clemson, Clemson beats Florida State and then Florida State beats Louisville. All one loss teams, assuming they win out the other games in conference. Then they go to the conference championship game and lose to 1 or 2 loss team from Coastal. The ACC needs a few years where there's a team that comes out unscathed, for all the wrong reasons. Perception, chief among them. If Miami, VT or someone else has a resurgence, it'll be different. But right now the 3 best teams in the same division isn't good if nobody comes out with a goose egg in the L column.

Having more good teams in your division means GOOD TV games which increases the ACC value down the road. Louisville isn't going to be top 15 every year like FSU and Clemson should be, and FSU/Clemson pushed for Louisville over UConn thus they make sense in the Atlantic. Plus, the playoff committee will look at those games and say they have played tough schedules and deserve a bid they are worthy. Moving Louisville to the Coastal makes no sense unless the ACC completely re-dos each division from scrap.

 

[SaltineWar]

Moving Louisville to the Coastal creates work for the Conference Front Office that they're trying their absolute best to avoid. The same holds true for switching rivals. One could argue, however that it really doesn't make a difference because it would hurt Miami and VPI just as much as it hurts Clemson and FSU. Even the Louisville board is concerned about how much of a fall-off they will have when Bridgewater leaves. They're obviously not going to go from what they have now to a 2-10 team, but there's no telling where in the Top 25 they'll end up until the 2104 season is actually played out.

I know it will never happen, but it would be so nice if the league just went North/South.

 

[Hoo's That]

I know it will never happen, but it would be so nice if the league just went North/South.

Two big things lead to the jumbled divisions. When Miami joined, they and FSU both said they didn't want to be in the same division, but still wanted to play each other every year. Also, every other school loved the idea of having at least one game in Florida every other year for potential recruiting. They wouldn't get that many trips to Florida with north-south. Adding the Miami-FSU desires to the fact that NC State would have voted against expansion if they couldn't play UNC every year and you get to the "designated rival" concept that the SEC started (so UGa could play Auburn). NC State has to play UNC (even though UNC doesn't care if they do); UNC and UVa have to play each other (this year it will tie Texas-aTm for the 3rd most played rivalry (118 games) and probably will surpass Kansas-Mizzou in 2016 for 2nd (120 games)); and UNC and Duke want to play each other. BTW, UGa-Auburn is one game behind us at 116.

Why UVa won't vote for a north-south realignment - We always get put in the north and many of our fans feel it means that we've been thrown out of the the ACC for football and put in the Big East.

 

[SaltineWar]

Two big things lead to the jumbled divisions. When Miami joined, they and FSU both said they didn't want to be in the same division, but still wanted to play each other every year. Also, every other school loved the idea of having at least one game in Florida every other year for potential recruiting. They wouldn't get that many trips to Florida with north-south. Adding the Miami-FSU desires to the fact that NC State would have voted against expansion if they couldn't play UNC every year and you get to the "designated rival" concept that the SEC started (so UGa could play Auburn). NC State has to play UNC (even though UNC doesn't care if they do); UNC and UVa have to play each other (this year it will tie Texas-aTm for the 3rd most played rivalry (118 games) and probably will surpass Kansas-Mizzou in 2016 for 2nd (120 games)); and UNC and Duke want to play each other. BTW, UGa-Auburn is one game behind us at 116.

Why UVa won't vote for a north-south realignment - We always get put in the north and many of our fans feel it means that we've been thrown out of the the ACC for football and put in the Big East.

It's too bad we have don't fully have ND and one more team, because I would like 4-4 team pods, with maybe a cross-pod rival, better than the current divisions.

 

[SU2NASA]

It's too bad we have don't fully have ND and one more team, because I would like 4-4 team pods, with maybe a cross-pod rival, better than the current divisions.

It makes no sense to have a conference where you can play a team in the other division at home once in 12 years.

 

[baggerbob]

The ACC is now on the upswing, ESPN knows this the Big 10 network, and The Pac 12 network are in place, but the fillers for all year round hurt both conferences. ESPN is going to find that out when they launch the SEC network. The second most popular sport is Basketball, and their isn't any comparison to the New ACC when Louisville comes aboard next year. People in the large metropolitan areas aren't going to watch reruns of football, when they can watch basketball. Baseball and lacrosse are strong in the ACC, which along the east coast can attract viewers. The ACC has more to offer on a national network then the other 3 conferences do.

 

[All4SU]

When they actually Do go to the B1G, we're going to sit here and laugh our asses off.

That's going to be a great day. A few of you posters will get 1,000 "Likes".

 

[All4SU]

Revisionist history. I know what this board and many others were like 10-15 years ago. 99% said no way there would be a 4x16 or a 5x14 or anything like it. Vince Dooley who first said it was considered a drunk.

Just because he was a drunk, doesn't mean he wasn't right.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

It makes no sense to have a conference where you can play a team in the other division at home once in 12 years.

9 conference games is the answer.

 

[All4SU]

OK, but, again, that wasn't my point.

10 years ago we had three major conferences of 12 and another with 11, so I'm not sure how 99% of people thought a 14-team conference was inconceivable, but whatever.

My point is that there were some who during the process of realignment suggested that the entire thing was calculated and orchestrated. As if there was a treasure map somewhere that was being followed. We know that wasn't the case, and every release of emails showing administrators scurrying around like rats on the Titanic after every move reinforces it. That was my only point.

Yeah, a lot of reaction mode by conferences and schools. Not nearly as much pro-active work going on -- obvious to us now.

 

[rrlbees]

Yeah, a lot of reaction mode by conferences and schools. Not nearly as much pro-active work going on -- obvious to us now.

The reactionary mode is more with the non powers. The power conferences who forsaw this have been more pro-active. But regardless how we get there, and it's not over, most did not agree that where it is going could ever happen.


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[Alsacs]

9 conference games is the answer.

Exactly once the SEC and B1G go to 9 game schedules the ACC will have to follow. The B1G already has it in place for 2016 and Nick Saban wants in the SEC thus it will happen. Once those conferences with the Pac-12 and Big XII play 9 games the ACC will have to follow suit to keep up for the playoffs. I think once FSU, Clemson and the ND problem get taken care of it will happen.