Just how clutch is melo, Lebron, and Kobe

[CusefanATL]

So if an aging Oscar Robertson had not won a title with a young Kareem in Milwaukee, his career would have somehow been diminished or even considered a failure?

And I'll just ignore your statement about Robert Horry and assume it's a joke.

Yes... Case in point Karl Malone

Edit... Diminished. Not a failure. Barkley and Malone and Stockton and ewing aren't failures because they played in Jordan's are. Melo won't be a failure if he doesnt win a title... But let's be honest melo hasn't ever been near an nba title and from the looks of it, is still very far from 1.

Whats the joke about horry? You think he is elite? Or he isn't clutch?

 

[RandygoCuse]

No Paul Pierce?

 

[Knicks411]

Is MJ seriously not on that list? I realize the criteria only included two of his real seasons, did his Wizards time bring him down?

It looks like there is a minimum of like 30 shots needed to qualify; so I doubt MJ took 30 game winning shots in the last 2 Bulls years (they were blowing most people out) and the Wizards years.

 

[Bornorange]

...and Ted Williams was worthless because he never won the world series.

 

[MikeSU02]

ESPN has done this to us. Championships are now the only measure of success. If you don't have one, you suck. It's unfortunate that we can't just enjoy great players. "Well, Lebron is a nice player, but he clearly isn't clutch and doesn't have a title, so he sucks."

I never thought about Dominique Wilkins not winning it all until after his career. People didn't dog him about it every interview and every single mention on television.

It's not due to ESPN. Winning a title was a necessary benchmark of greatness for the NBA prior to ESPN. There are only 5 people on a side at one time. Singular dominance and impact is most relevant in the NBA.

You should really read up on the NBA prior to the time when ESPN became really influential. It absolutely does matter that a player has titles or not.

And once again, blame ESPN all you want, but the trio of Heat were the ones that had a party guaranteeing 8 titles.

 

[CusefanATL]

It looks like there is a minimum of like 30 shots needed to qualify; so I doubt MJ took 30 game winning shots in the last 2 Bulls years (they were blowing most people out) and the Wizards years.

Robert horry shouldn't require a minimum.

The guy is like 10/10.

 

[Upstate]

Karl Malone and John Stockton suck

 

[CusefanATL]

Karl Malone and John Stockton suck

his career is def diminished by not winning a title.

2nd most points ALL TIME
6th most rebounds ALL TIME

 

[Upstate]

his career is def diminished by not winning a title.

2nd most points ALL TIME
6th most rebounds ALL TIME

But because he never got a ring, he will always be in the shadow of Sean Elliot. This whole thread is bogus!

 

[Knicks411]

Wonder how different we'd look at some of the players of the 90's if Jordan just never existed. Maybe Ewing, Barkley, Stockton, Malone all end up with a ring or two.

On Malone, his durability was amazing, from his rookie year to his second to last year (so his entire Jazz career) the most games he missed in a season was 2. Just a string of 80, 81, and 82 games played. (plus 49 for the lockout year).

 

[CusefanATL]

But because he never got a ring, he will always be in the shadow of Sean Elliot. This whole thread is bogus!

I dont know why this thread has really even turned into that. it started because Melo has the best % of game winners. The 1st few posts, iirc were about him not winning int he playoffs (not titles).

Melo has the worst win % in the history of the playoffs (of any player i believe).

And then it turned into Sean Elliot being better than Karl Malone because he has a title. That is not the case at all. Karl Malone is a top 50 player ever. But he is not considered as great as he really is, simply because he never won a title.

His career is certainly diminished, but it is nowhere near a failure. There is a huge difference.

This thread doesnt need to turn into republican-democrat like debate.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Karl Malone is a top 50 player ever. But he is not considered as great as he really is, simply because he never won a title. His career is certainly diminished, but it is nowhere near a failure. There is a huge difference.
This thread doesnt need to turn into republican-democrat like debate.

Hence, Karl Malone's problem...he's a Republican!

 

[br801]

Karl Malone is a top 50 player ever. But he is not considered as great as he really is, simply because he never won a title.

That is a beautiful piece of prose.

 

[Upstate]

I dont know why this thread has really even turned into that. it started because Melo has the best % of game winners. The 1st few posts, iirc were about him not winning int he playoffs (not titles).

Melo has the worst win % in the history of the playoffs (of any player i believe).

And then it turned into Sean Elliot being better than Karl Malone because he has a title. That is not the case at all. Karl Malone is a top 50 player ever. But he is not considered as great as he really is, simply because he never won a title.

His career is certainly diminished, but it is nowhere near a failure. There is a huge difference.

This thread doesnt need to turn into republican-democrat like debate.

You're right, things really got out of hand in a hurry. It's ridiculous to say, though, as others seem to be implying, that winning shots in the playoffs/winning titles are the end-all-be-all in classifying great players.

 

[djcon57]

ESPN has done this to us. Championships are now the only measure of success. If you don't have one, you suck. It's unfortunate that we can't just enjoy great players. "Well, Lebron is a nice player, but he clearly isn't clutch and doesn't have a title, so he sucks."

I never thought about Dominique Wilkins not winning it all until after his career. People didn't dog him about it every interview and every single mention on television.

They did to Barkley.
They did to Karl Malone.
NONSTOP to Ewing.
They did to Kobe before he won without Shaq.
They did to David Robinson.
They did to Dan Marino.
They did it Donovan McNabb
They do it to Tony Romo now.
They do it to Phillip Rivers now.

Lebron...not allowed.

No one said he sucks. This is a straw-man. You are arguing with a made up premise.

 

[Knicks411]

Throw Barry Bonds in there

 

[CusefanATL]

They did to Barkley.
They did to Karl Malone.
NONSTOP to Ewing.
They did to Kobe before he won without Shaq.
They did to David Robinson.
They did to Dan Marino.
They did it Donovan McNabb
They do it to Tony Romo now.
They do it to Phillip Rivers now.

Lebron...not allowed.

No one said he sucks. This is a straw-man. You are arguing with a made up premise.

not sure i agree with that.

Lebron is very much criticized for not being clutch.