Kaleb picks up his dribble...

[SoBeCuse]

Sometimes guys are just busts. It's obviously way too early with kaleb to call him a bust but there's literally nothing I like about his game. Maybe by his junior and senior year he can develop into a decent pg on hopefully loaded teams, but I don't see him as ever being anything more than just ok.

I'm in this camp as well. Anything else like SarasotaPaul's "He will be missed greatly when he is gone" take is simply betting or believing through blind faith. Like the belief in the Holy Trinity. I don't see any evidence in regards to Joseph. Especially regarding his handle which should not be the most important and vital aspect of his game at this point of the season that needs the most work as a PG. I don't see any burst in the open court or to the rim. I hope I'm wrong about him.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

I'm in this camp as well. Anything else like SarasotaPaul's "He will be missed greatly when he is gone" take is simply betting or believing through blind faith. Like the belief in the Holy Trinity. I don't see any evidence in regards to Joseph. Especially regarding his handle which should not be the most important and vital aspect of his game at this point of the season that needs the most work as a PG. I don't see any burst in the open court or to the rim. I hope I'm wrong about him.

Blind faith? Not really. Its after talking with a few who watched him in AAU and talking with some of those who coached him then. That and watching how far he has progressed already. But then I have only played, coached and watched for 45 years.

As for the Holy Trinity remark - thats just sad on your part. You might not want to attack a religion on a sports forum as a tactic in supporting your opinion. It doesn't belong there.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

Bad defense, bad handle, bad passer. But other than that he's a solid pg!

He is only 7th in the ACC in assists per game.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Blind faith? Not really. Its after talking with a few who watched him in AAU and talking with some of those who coached him then. That and watching how far he has progressed already. But then I have only played, coached and watched for 45 years.

As for the Holy Trinity remark - thats just sad on your part. You might not want to attack a religion on a sports forum as a tactic in supporting your opinion. It doesn't belong there.

No attack was made but I'll keep on acting "sad." I appreciate the intel re: Joseph.

 

[shandeezy7]

No attack was made but I'll keep on acting "sad." I appreciate the intel re: Joseph.

If that was an attack on religion (aka "faith"), then it was probably the weakest attack on religion I've ever seen.

 

[SoBeCuse]

If that was an attack on religion (aka "faith"), then it was probably the weakest attack on religion I've ever seen.

Ha!

 

[Ghost]

He is only 7th in the ACC in assists per game.

He isn't even first on the team in assists in ACC play.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

He isn't even first on the team in assists in ACC play.

Nope, just 7th in the ACC 2/3rds of the way through his freshman season. How does that equate to making him a bad passer?

 

[Ghost]

Nope, just 7th in the ACC 2/3rds of the way through his freshman season. How does that equate to making him a bad passer?

He is 7th in the ACC counting only ACC games? He had some good assist totals early in the year - but in ACC play I would think he would be far lower than 7th.

 

[shandeezy7]

He is 7th in the ACC counting only ACC games? He had some good assist totals early in the year - but in ACC play I would think he would be far lower than 7th.

He is only averaging 3.4 assists per game in ACC play, which does not put him in the top 10. Number 10 (as far down as the list goes) is Tyus Jones at Duke, averaging 4.3 assists per game:

http://www.theacc.com/page/team-stats-m-baskbl-stat-crew

 

[dollarbill44]

He needs a ton of work on his left hand. His handle with his left is not D-1 level and he rarely shoots with his left hand when he finishes on the left side of the hoop.

Players finishing with their off-hand is a rarity in college hoops.

 

[iommi]

Players finishing with their off-hand is a rarity in college hoops.

On layups? I'm not so sure about that.

 

[RF2044]

Kaleb will make believers of you people before his career goes much farther. Some of the analysis are just plain wrong but there is much truth to many of them. His strength will improve and this year will look like a mirage once he starts his sophomore season. He has already learned to look for teammates in shooting areas while early in the season he had no clue.

His coaches have all talked about how hard he works, so my confidence in him improving dramatically is very high. Very few freshman can improve during their first season. Strength doesn't just happen the minute someone steps into the gym. The speed of the game also takes time to adjust to at this level of competition. There are no easy targets like in high school or AAU.

My only concern is he is so lost on defense and keeps his hands down by his sides all the time. That is the only troubling aspect I see at this time. Hopefully its just a symptom of having so much to learn all at once.

As for shooting - he certainly can. He just needs to learn when to pull up and when to take his shots. His confidence is so low now he thinks too much instead of just letting it fly.

You all need to remember he is just a freshman before summarily writing him off. He will be missed greatly when he is gone.

Agreed. This board has generally sucked when it comes to projecting player's developmental curves, and the majority of this thread is no exception.

I'd expect a pretty sizeable sophomore leap as a function of the game experieince he's gained from being thrown to the wolves this year. By the time he's a junior, he'll be a terrific player for us, and all of this talk will be conveniently forgotten.

 

[OttoMets]

On layups? I'm not so sure about that.

Other than Christmas, do we have a player who does it consistently?

Gbinije takes layups with his right hand 100% of the time from both sides of the hoop. Joseph and Cooney do it most of the time, too. I think Patterson's back door the other might have been with his left hand from the left side, but I can't quite remember.

We're a fundamentally unsound team, unfortunately.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

He is 7th in the ACC counting only ACC games? He had some good assist totals early in the year - but in ACC play I would think he would be far lower than 7th.

He is lower in just ACC play. I was using the ACC's site total year numbers. The fact is he is not a bad passer. And if some do not think he will improve greatly with this year under his belt, well thats one opinion. He doesn't have a great cast with him this year especially at this point in time. Just having a full roster to work with would help. A years experience will be a huge asset to him as will a years maturity in strength. He has had a few games in the ACC where even the announcers have commented on his excellent setup of other players. Anyway, passing is not one of his weak points. Strength, confidence, lack of experience and the weakest (or shortest in terms of players) supporting cast in a long time are problems. The best part of all this is that all of these deficiencies can be corrected with time and work.

This thread reminds me of all those who disliked the skill set of Cooney and some even suggesting he was DIII caliber. Here's hoping Kaleb proves doubters wrong as well as Cooney has. I for one believe he will given all I have heard and seen so far.

 

[dollarbill44]

On layups? I'm not so sure about that.

I've been watching college hoops for 37 years. I would estimate the number of college players that finish with their weak hand on layups at less than 5%, which is purely a made-up figure to say that it doesn't happen very often.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I'll gladly eat crow regarding Joseph as long as the other self-proclaimed more advanced scouts who mock some of our opinions do as well.

 

[TBCuse11]

Can't shoot but he's our third best shooter, and it's not even close.

I dont agree with this at all. 15 foot jumper: G, Cooney, Rak and Roberson... give me all of them before KJ. And that doesnt count Chris McC who is obviously better as well.

I still think G is out best PG, by default, and will be next year too (if hes still with SU)

 

[Ghost]

He is lower in just ACC play. I was using the ACC's site total year numbers. The fact is he is not a bad passer. And if some do not think he will improve greatly with this year under his belt, well thats one opinion. He doesn't have a great cast with him this year especially at this point in time. Just having a full roster to work with would help. A years experience will be a huge asset to him as will a years maturity in strength. He has had a few games in the ACC where even the announcers have commented on his excellent setup of other players. Anyway, passing is not one of his weak points. Strength, confidence, lack of experience and the weakest (or shortest in terms of players) supporting cast in a long time are problems. The best part of all this is that all of these deficiencies can be corrected with time and work.

This thread reminds me of all those who disliked the skill set of Cooney and some even suggesting he was DIII caliber. Here's hoping Kaleb proves doubters wrong as well as Cooney has. I for one believe he will given all I have heard and seen so far.

I wouldn't really call that a fact. I'm not sure what makes anyone think he's a good passer to be honest.

I don't think he won't improve, I just don't think he's a PG. This is the same board where maybe 75% (if not higher) of the people thought Scoop wasn't capable of playing PG up until his Senior year had already started, and a decent percentage thought a walk-on (Brandon Reese) was a D1 caliber PG. We've also had discussions about how UConn's women's team would do against our men's team inexplicably enough......Soooooooo, I'm not that concerned with people disagreeing with me.

I think he'll be a finer player - I just think he's a SG...I've seen relatively little to make me think he will be a PG. Can he play PG? Sure.

Cooney can too. Would he be able to take that role on next year if he played the rest of this one as PG. Yup. Do I think he'd be a very good PG. Nope.

Even Rak sets up players for open shots - doesn't make him a PG. I've seen nothing against upper-echelon teams, or even just power conference teams regardless of ranking (with one exception), that I find very encouraging regarding his court awareness/vision. I can't recall the last player who seemed more clueless upon approaching the rim in a half-court set. He doesn't know where anyone is.

I hope I'm wrong though. I really do. I can't think of anything more exciting than eating crow when a player outperforms expectations. I thought G would be largely the same player he was last year, I was wrong. Yay!!!

 

[tbonezone]

a coach can either build you up or tear you down. i have little doubt that most of kaleb's trepidations are anxiety related and a direct result of coaching style.


(haven't seen whiplash yet. it's in the Q.)