Kaleb played much better tonight | Syracusefan.com

Kaleb played much better tonight

pearl31

pearl31

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than he did against Cal. Yeah he had a few What TOs (and the ill-advised quick jumper at the end) but I thought he did a solid job of penetrating and dishing and just seemed a lot more in control.
I'll take 8 assists from our PG all year long.
 
He did play better. You can see he is just a half-beat slow right now. Notice how he isn't able to predict where the defense will be by the time his passes arrive, or how he throws the ball just a few inches behind where it needs to be to allow a player a smooth move to the basket? He also isn't making the right passes yet (like the lofted pass to an open Xmas that allowed the defense to get there in time to contest where a zipped pass would have resulted in a dunk, or giving McCullough the ball in the wrong spot on the break leading to a travel or charge, also missed an open Cooney for 3 right after he hit one and gave it to G instead, who missed). He'll get better at that stuff as he becomes more accustomed to the college level game.
 
I don't know, that last drive and dish to Rak or McC was nice (and a huge play when we needed one), but I'm even more worried after this game.

He seems to throw bounce passes way to close to the feet of the person receiving the pass a little too often. Never really seen anyone else do that with regularity - like he's never thrown a bounce pass before. Shot selection seemed pretty iffy at times as well.

Glad he had that last play though - left me with a better taste in my mouth going forward. Don't forget though, they pretty much took him off the ball late in the game against the press. Cooney and G were mostly in charge - not a good sign if you're trying to keep it out of your point guards hands in crunch time.
 
Ghost said:
Glad he had that last play though - left me with a better taste in my mouth going forward. Don't forget though, they pretty much took him off the ball late in the game against the press. Cooney and G were mostly in charge - not a good sign if you're trying to keep it out of your point guards hands in crunch time.
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I think that could be just get the more experienced guys the ball. Kaleb has a lot to grow in terms of the mental aspect of the game, including nerves I think. This was too big of a stage for him last night, clearly. Tonight he was better but still is mentally a half-step behind as I said above.
 
STEVEHOLT said:
He is oozing with potential. I just hate how he looks like beetle juice. I dont say that to be mean, I am truly annoyed by how he reminds me of the dude.
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Lol. I could only imagine how you would feel if he had hair like him. So we got Urkel and Beetle Juice for KJ so far. Anybody got another one?
 
i was at the game ---i thought roberson played very well and deserved more kudos than he is getting. kaleb joseph needs time and is out of control particularly when the game is tight . i would have felt more confident with paterson in the game in a tight situation.
 
LennX6 said:
I don't think you will recognize either Kaleb or McCullough, come January. A month gelling and they will be more than ok.
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i am not sure about kaleb. mcC ues but will need to bulk up this year---other teams will take to him to the woodshed physically---love the kid though--great upside side
 
I was surprised by how much trouble Iowa's three quarter court press seemed to give us. It seemed to me that Kaleb would immediately give up the ball to Cooney or G and immediately leave him alone and not help get the ball across leaving them to make a tough pass to someone at the opposite timeline. It seemed to lead to a number of turnovers and/or mishandles. He seemed very timid to me and our press break seemed timid when we should have bee attacking it aggressively as a result.

If I were a team like Villanova and watched the tape of this game I would press the crap out of us.
 
Kaleb will be excellent in time. He still thinking his way around. Like HoustonCuse pointed out this causes everything to be just off or just a bit slow. What I notice is his speed. He looks like lightning on plays where he sees it and just does it. The rest of the time he looks normal D1 speed. He also needs a lot of work on defense.

I'm very high on him overall.
 
Joseph is too unselfish at times. I remember 5 or 6 times the past 2 games where he had a clean layup at the rim but he tried to pass it mid-air

He's different than Ennis in alot of aspects. I love the fact that KJ is gonna push more and get other people involved. I felt that too many times last year Ennis was focused on getting his own. Obviously the difference right now is Tyler was so calm right away and didn't make mistakes at all really; but you can't expect all freshman PG's to be like taht.
 
jordoo said:
Kaleb will be excellent in time. He still thinking his way around. Like HoustonCuse pointed out this causes everything to be just off or just a bit slow. What I notice is his speed. He looks like lightning on plays where he sees it and just does it. The rest of the time he looks normal D1 speed. He also needs a lot of work on defense.

I'm very high on him overall.
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He was a poor defender from what I saw in HS, which was kind of surprising because of his speed and athleticism. Hopefully he can improve, but one of my main issues with him early on defensively in the zone is that he always keeps his hands down. Not going to deflect any passes or make a shooter hesitate to bomb away doing that.
 
STEVEHOLT said:
He is oozing with potential. I just hate how he looks like beetle juice. I dont say that to be mean, I am truly annoyed by how he reminds me of the dude.
Expand...
I said the exact same thing... Irritates the hell out of me.. That's the guy who hangs with ed bass master right?
 
Those who know me know that I am tough on point guards.

That said, with the run of point guards we have had, it is easy to forget that Kaleb has played four collegiate games in his career. He looks like a player that can develop over time, but he isn't as close to being a "finished product" as many of our recent lead guards:
  • Flynn (sophomore)
  • Triche (freshman)/Scoop (sophomore) combo
  • Scoop (junior and senior)
  • Carter-Williams (sophomore who had his own growing pains)
  • Ennis (one of the most poised freshman I have ever seen)
60% of this list play or played in the NBA (Ennis likely will someday). Joseph may, too, but he's not at that level of his development yet. Frankly, he has played like a freshman, and I couldn't be more satisfied with what he has shown so far.

It is true that he has several facets of his game that need work, but there are a lot of strengths to his game at such an early stage of his career. For as much criticism as there is on his passing, he has plenty of assists early in the year (5.5 apg). He has shown the ability to facilitate the break, and he seems to have a pull-up jumper in his arsenal. He also appears to understand the basic concepts of the pick and roll, and his scoring ability should improve with more reps.

As Francis pointed out, defense is his greatest liability at the moment. This is not uncommon with young guys in the zone. He also needs to work on when and how to attack off the dribble, and he needs to improve his outside shooting, which should enable him to drive more effectively.

Overall, he's not a one-and-done guard, and for all of the bellyaching over players leaving early, we can't then complain when a player that is likely to stay multiple seasons isn't perfect from day one.

I know several fans were distraught when he took that pull-up jumper late in the game last night. I'm in the minority, but I was not upset. Number one, I like players that have the onions to take big shots in big spots. Not all players do. Number two, though not the best shot choice given time (especially in terms of the shot clock) and score, it wasn't really a horrible shot. It was a wide-open, pull-up jumper. Wide-open shots are what you want in an offense. The truth is that those who complained about the shot would have celebrated him if he made it. Complaining about that shot solely based on the time left on the shot clock also ignores that there is no guarantee our half-court offense would find a better shot than that during the possession. Number three, the only way Kaleb will grow is to make errors and learn from them. If we assume Boeheim was unhappy with the shot (which I'm not sure he was) and provided instruction, then this experience in November may pay great dividends in March, if not this season, then at some point during his career.

I don't know that Kaleb will ever be as good as Sherman, Pearl, or MCW. Time will tell. Based on what I have seen, he has the tools to be very good, though making long-term judgments about his game at this time is premature. I am excited to watch him develop during his time on the hill.
 
Coach Orange said:
Those who know me know that I am tough on point guards.

That said, with the run of point guards we have had, it is easy to forget that Kaleb has played four collegiate games in his career. He looks like a player that can develop over time, but he isn't as close to being a "finished product" as many of our recent lead guards:
  • Flynn (sophomore)
  • Triche (freshman)/Scoop (sophomore) combo
  • Scoop (junior and senior)
  • Carter-Williams (sophomore who had his own growing pains)
  • Ennis (one of the most poised freshman I have ever seen)
60% of this list play or played in the NBA (Ennis likely will someday). Joseph may, too, but he's not at that level of his development yet. Frankly, he has played like a freshman, and I couldn't be more satisfied with what he has shown so far.

It is true that he has several facets of his game that need work, but there are a lot of strengths to his game at such an early stage of his career. For as much criticism as there is on his passing, he has plenty of assists early in the year (5.5 apg). He has shown the ability to facilitate the break, and he seems to have a pull-up jumper in his arsenal. He also appears to understand the basic concepts of the pick and roll, and his scoring ability should improve with more reps.

As Francis pointed out, defense is his greatest liability at the moment. This is not uncommon with young guys in the zone. He also needs to work on when and how to attack off the dribble, and he needs to improve his outside shooting, which should enable him to drive more effectively.

Overall, he's not a one-and-done guard, and for all of the bellyaching over players leaving early, we can't then complain when a player that is likely to stay multiple seasons isn't perfect from day one.

I know several fans were distraught when he took that pull-up jumper late in the game last night. I'm in the minority, but I was not upset. Number one, I like players that have the onions to take big shots in big spots. Not all players do. Number two, though not the best shot choice given time (especially in terms of the shot clock) and score, it wasn't really a horrible shot. It was a wide-open, pull-up jumper. Wide-open shots are what you want in an offense. The truth is that those who complained about the shot would have celebrated him if he made it. Complaining about that shot solely based on the time left on the shot clock also ignores that there is no guarantee our half-court offense would find a better shot than that during the possession. Number three, the only way Kaleb will grow is to make errors and learn from them. If we assume Boeheim was unhappy with the shot (which I'm not sure he was) and provided instruction, then this experience in November may pay great dividends in March, if not this season, then at some point during his career.

I don't know that Kaleb will ever be as good as Sherman, Pearl, or MCW. Time will tell. Based on what I have seen, he has the tools to be very good, though making long-term judgments about his game at this time is premature. I am excited to watch him develop during his time on the hill.
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Great post. Question, how was that jumper by KJ any different than the last two jumpers that Tyler took at end of game against Dayton?? Its not about where a freshman is in nov/dec, its about where they are in feb/march.

There are things imo which are not fixable this year. Ie CM putting on 20 lbs and (if DC2 cant come back) we will have no effective back up to Rak (well i guess CO has that potential i just dont see it happening). But there are things that ARE potentially fixable. Ie KJs silly mistakes at pg and us finding one more decent outside shooter to compliment TC...all imho
 
Jack Hall said:
Great post. Question, how was that jumper by KJ any different than the last two jumpers that Tyler took at end of game against Dayton?? Its not about where a freshman is in nov/dec, its about where they are in feb/march.

There are things imo which are not fixable this year. Ie CM putting on 20 lbs and (if DC2 cant come back) we will have no effective back up to Rak. But there are things that ARE potentially fixable. Ie KJs silly mistakes at pg and us finding one more decent outside shooter to compliment TC...all imho
Expand...

If there is a difference, it would be in the definition of "wide-open." I'd have to watch Ennis's shots again, but I don't remember them being wide open. I remember them being contested.

I agree whole-heartedly, though, with your point about November vs. March. :) That's exactly my point--Kaleb's shot can be a teachable moment that pays dividends later in the season. I'm hoping Joseph develops over the course of the season more than Ennis did. I don't think Tyler progressed greatly at all while here, but he was further along from the start than Kaleb.
 
Coach Orange said:
If there is a difference, it would be in the definition of "wide-open." I'd have to watch Ennis's shots again, but I don't remember them being wide open. I remember them being contested.

I agree whole-heartedly, though, with your point about November vs. March. :) That's exactly my point--Kaleb's shot can be a teachable moment that pays dividends later in the season. I'm hoping Joseph develops over the course of the season more than Ennis did. I don't think Tyler progressed greatly at all while here, but he was further along from the start than Kaleb.
Expand...
Sorry i didnt word that well, yes i was just reiterating the pt you had already made about march
 
Coach Orange said:
Those who know me know that I am tough on point guards.

That said, with the run of point guards we have had, it is easy to forget that Kaleb has played four collegiate games in his career. He looks like a player that can develop over time, but he isn't as close to being a "finished product" as many of our recent lead guards:
  • Flynn (sophomore)
  • Triche (freshman)/Scoop (sophomore) combo
  • Scoop (junior and senior)
  • Carter-Williams (sophomore who had his own growing pains)
  • Ennis (one of the most poised freshman I have ever seen)
60% of this list play or played in the NBA (Ennis likely will someday). Joseph may, too, but he's not at that level of his development yet. Frankly, he has played like a freshman, and I couldn't be more satisfied with what he has shown so far.

It is true that he has several facets of his game that need work, but there are a lot of strengths to his game at such an early stage of his career. For as much criticism as there is on his passing, he has plenty of assists early in the year (5.5 apg). He has shown the ability to facilitate the break, and he seems to have a pull-up jumper in his arsenal. He also appears to understand the basic concepts of the pick and roll, and his scoring ability should improve with more reps.

As Francis pointed out, defense is his greatest liability at the moment. This is not uncommon with young guys in the zone. He also needs to work on when and how to attack off the dribble, and he needs to improve his outside shooting, which should enable him to drive more effectively.

Overall, he's not a one-and-done guard, and for all of the bellyaching over players leaving early, we can't then complain when a player that is likely to stay multiple seasons isn't perfect from day one.

I know several fans were distraught when he took that pull-up jumper late in the game last night. I'm in the minority, but I was not upset. Number one, I like players that have the onions to take big shots in big spots. Not all players do. Number two, though not the best shot choice given time (especially in terms of the shot clock) and score, it wasn't really a horrible shot. It was a wide-open, pull-up jumper. Wide-open shots are what you want in an offense. The truth is that those who complained about the shot would have celebrated him if he made it. Complaining about that shot solely based on the time left on the shot clock also ignores that there is no guarantee our half-court offense would find a better shot than that during the possession. Number three, the only way Kaleb will grow is to make errors and learn from them. If we assume Boeheim was unhappy with the shot (which I'm not sure he was) and provided instruction, then this experience in November may pay great dividends in March, if not this season, then at some point during his career.

I don't know that Kaleb will ever be as good as Sherman, Pearl, or MCW. Time will tell. Based on what I have seen, he has the tools to be very good, though making long-term judgments about his game at this time is premature. I am excited to watch him develop during his time on the hill.
Expand...
And i do disagree w you slightly about KJs shot. I didnt like it altho i agree w you sometimes you just have to have the guts to step up and knock down a tough shot, esp when there is no guarantee that a better one will materialize. thought it was too early in the shot clock combined w the fact i thought he had the space to get a closer look. And im pretty sure i could read JBs lips after he missed it and i thought JB said something to KJ to the effect of- he should have driven it or kicked it to someone else, i couldnt quite tell
 
A lot of you seem to forget that underclassman Scoop was a trainwreck and MCW committed a ton of turnovers early on.
 
I liked the early trigger, the selection could have been better, but in terms of strategy it wasn't bad at all. I think there was 40ish seconds left in the game when he took that shot. By shooting early in the shot clock it gives them another possession in case something bad happens on the other end. 2 for 1 situation. Worst case scenario you get the ball back with a chance to tie or win. You run the clock down and miss, worst case scenario you lose without a chance.
 
Coach Orange said:
Those who know me know that I am tough on point guards.

That said, with the run of point guards we have had, it is easy to forget that Kaleb has played four collegiate games in his career. He looks like a player that can develop over time, but he isn't as close to being a "finished product" as many of our recent lead guards:
  • Flynn (sophomore)
  • Triche (freshman)/Scoop (sophomore) combo
  • Scoop (junior and senior)
  • Carter-Williams (sophomore who had his own growing pains)
  • Ennis (one of the most poised freshman I have ever seen)
60% of this list play or played in the NBA (Ennis likely will someday). Joseph may, too, but he's not at that level of his development yet. Frankly, he has played like a freshman, and I couldn't be more satisfied with what he has shown so far.

It is true that he has several facets of his game that need work, but there are a lot of strengths to his game at such an early stage of his career. For as much criticism as there is on his passing, he has plenty of assists early in the year (5.5 apg). He has shown the ability to facilitate the break, and he seems to have a pull-up jumper in his arsenal. He also appears to understand the basic concepts of the pick and roll, and his scoring ability should improve with more reps.

As Francis pointed out, defense is his greatest liability at the moment. This is not uncommon with young guys in the zone. He also needs to work on when and how to attack off the dribble, and he needs to improve his outside shooting, which should enable him to drive more effectively.

Overall, he's not a one-and-done guard, and for all of the bellyaching over players leaving early, we can't then complain when a player that is likely to stay multiple seasons isn't perfect from day one.

I know several fans were distraught when he took that pull-up jumper late in the game last night. I'm in the minority, but I was not upset. Number one, I like players that have the onions to take big shots in big spots. Not all players do. Number two, though not the best shot choice given time (especially in terms of the shot clock) and score, it wasn't really a horrible shot. It was a wide-open, pull-up jumper. Wide-open shots are what you want in an offense. The truth is that those who complained about the shot would have celebrated him if he made it. Complaining about that shot solely based on the time left on the shot clock also ignores that there is no guarantee our half-court offense would find a better shot than that during the possession. Number three, the only way Kaleb will grow is to make errors and learn from them. If we assume Boeheim was unhappy with the shot (which I'm not sure he was) and provided instruction, then this experience in November may pay great dividends in March, if not this season, then at some point during his career.

I don't know that Kaleb will ever be as good as Sherman, Pearl, or MCW. Time will tell. Based on what I have seen, he has the tools to be very good, though making long-term judgments about his game at this time is premature. I am excited to watch him develop during his time on the hill.
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Great stuff, I'm with you I love that Kaleb took that jumper and something that hasn't been mentioned is that he did it quick enough that it was a 2-4-1 possession wise. Make or miss we were getting the ball back if Iowa rebounded even if they had a shot clock violation on their shot. It would have been better to continue to penetrate and either get his own layup or dish if the defense dictated it but he had the brass balls to try and ice the game even with his youth, inexperience and nervousness. This speaks to the heart of the player IMO and we got one who really wants to win.

Edit: Tyler is a very hard act to follow for a freshman PG but Tyler did have his limitations even if he was one of the most poised and collected lead guards I have ever seen from day one.
 
Last edited:
CuseNickens said:
I liked the early trigger, the selection could have been better, but in terms of strategy it wasn't bad at all. I think there was 40ish seconds left in the game when he took that shot. By shooting early in the shot clock it gives them another possession in case something bad happens on the other end. 2 for 1 situation. Worst case scenario you get the ball back with a chance to tie or win. You run the clock down and miss, worst case scenario you lose without a chance.
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I just made this point but had yet to read your post. 2-4-1 NBA style play there with the quick shot and it was as open as you get. Still he could have taken it all the way and only used 1 more second.
 
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