Kaleb

[RF2044]

Agree with that, but at the end of the day it comes down to making smarter decisions and better plays.

Agreed. And I think we can all agree that KJ isn't going to provide a big contribution as a lead guard. However, there are things he CAN potentially contribute.

Theoretically, he won't have to be the lone ball handler out there, so if he's playing with G or Cooney, he can afford to be the secondary ball handler. The question is--can he shoot well enough and drive / get into the lane for mid range shots / drive and dish opportunities? He showed some promise in that regard last year, but seems to have regressed from a confidence standpoint in that part of his game. He needs to straight out--quickly--or it will be time to force feed Howard some minutes.

The coaches are generally right. They are seeing something in Joseph in practice that is inducing JB to play him exponentially more than Howard, but it hasn't translated to games yet. After the next two games, we have 5 easier games to get that seventh man in the rotation issue figured out.

 

[Eagles20]

I don't disagree with any of that--especially the part about who he's playing behind, and the uphill battle to get minutes.

However, this team desperately needs a 7th player to emerge, one who can spell the backcourt positions. We can't maximize / optimize our team potential playing a six player rotation. So we need one of Joseph / Howard to emerge. It might not be big statistical contributions, but we have to get solid minutes from them. 5-10 per game.

Because the alternative is that our perimeter oriented main cogs are going to get really run down the last third of the season.

Yea most definitely need need one of the two to emerge. I believe If my memory serves correct JB mentioned joseph specifically in the presser after UConn as needing to get going. I just don't know if JB will have enough trust to let one of them play through a mistake or two. I was actually personally hoping the added weight to jospeh in the off season would contribute to his dribble drive game. Him settling for just jumpers isn't going to earn him more minutes.

 

[SUbear]

We wouldnt have won a title without Kueth Duany either, and JB rode him mercilessly.

My point is that GMac could be very reckless shooting and dribbling the ball but he never seemed to get yelled at ever.

But Duany did not play well until his senior season after all that yelling(instruction) by guess who. Gmac on the other hand contributed from the very start of his career.
Oh and Joseph is no Duany as a senior either.

 

[Ringostar57]

Silence from JB equals contempt.

 

[RoatanCuse]

Preseason, JB made some positive remarks about Kaleb's progress over tne summer. Maybe he knows the kid nas more upside and sees things during practice sessions. Hopefully, with a year under his belt, he can contribute more when league play begins. I am rooting for him.

 

[tptcuse]

Preseason, JB made some positive remarks about Kaleb's progress over tne summer. Maybe he knows the kid nas more upside and sees things during practice sessions. Hopefully, with a year under his belt, he can contribute more when league play begins. I am rooting for him.

JB made a remark in the UCONN press conference when a reporter mentioned something about "the 4 shooters," JB said something like "We have 5 shooters." It seemed like he was referring to Joseph, but annoyed that KJ wasn't showing it.

 

[Cheriehoop]

The most frustrating thing for a coach has to be having a player who he knows has the potential to be a very good player but for one reason or another - just doesn't get it. I remember JB being all over Mike G's case when he first got here too. I think people forget. There are kids who know when they make a mistake and are harder on themselves than any coach could be - no use yelling at them.

 

[Antiprodigy]

This is one area of change we'll probably see with Hop. I don't mind players getting yelled at but do mind that there are always the selected whipping boys.

Not this argument again? This subject comes up at least 2-3 times every year. Literally every coach from the youngest age group all the way up, in every sport does this in some way. If you don't realize this, then you must never have played any organized team sport. If you think JB is the only coach who has ever done this, you are naive.

I feel very confident that Hop will be no different than any other coach in this respect.

If you continuously are not living up to your skills, and it is obvious that the issues are not due to a lack of knowledge or talent, any good coach is going to at least make an attempt to motivate you, otherwise they are not a good coach.
(ie. if you have countlessly been told to get your hands up on defense, and you still don't do it, you are going to get yelled at, and you're going to get yanked out of games)

 

[orangefan13]

If KJO was a true whipping boy He wouldn't have been in the game after the yelling. He was though

 

[Toga]

Not this argument again? This subject comes up at least 2-3 times every year. Literally every coach from the youngest age group all the way up, in every sport does this in some way. If you don't realize this, then you must never have played any organized team sport. If you think JB is the only coach who has ever done this, you are naive.

I feel very confident that Hop will be no different than any other coach in this respect.

If you continuously are not living up to your skills, and it is obvious that the issues are not due to a lack of knowledge or talent, any good coach is going to at least make an attempt to motivate you, otherwise they are not a good coach.
(ie. if you have countlessly been told to get your hands up on defense, and you still don't do it, you are going to get yelled at, and you're going to get yanked out of games)

Reread my post.

 

[Antiprodigy]

Reread my post.

There is nothing to reread. You don't think Hop will have whipping boys, and I'm saying that if he has any hope of being a successful coach, and I feel that he will be successful, then he will have players that fans perceive to be "whipping boys".

And if you will reread my post, you will see the reason & and an example of why coaches have so-called whipping boys. You cannot continue to make the same mistakes over and over again, and not expect there to be repercussions.

The reason "golden childs" exist is because they are players who excel at doing the thinks they are supposed to be doing. So, when they occasionally make a mistake, they have built up a level of trust from the coach. They have a longer leash.

 

[W'boro'Cuse315]

Shocked that there has been no mention of Terrence Roberts with all this talk of "whipping boys". I swear JB used to turn & yell at him on the bench after one of the on-court players made a mistake.

 

[Eric15]

Long story short: I just don't want KJ to turn into Michael Edwards, where he starts as a freshman and then slowly fades away (I know we're only a few games into his 2nd season);

He showed some flashes last year of being a very good player (the game at BC comes to mind for me).

 

[721Comstock]

Long story short: I just don't want KJ to turn into Michael Edwards, where he starts as a freshman and then slowly fades away (I know we're only a few games into his 2nd season);

He showed some flashes last year of being a very good player (the game at BC comes to mind for me).

He was awesome against 'Nova too.
And this year, in the preseason exhibitions, he shot extremely well. Was hoping to see some of that carry over.
He's got it in him. Just needs to play at that level more consistently - or at all - if he wants any significant PT.

 

[CorduroyG]

The exception being GMac. I don't think JB would have yelled at him if he purposely scored on the opponents basket as a practical joke.

Gerry what was that?

Oh just have a little fun coach. Lighten up will ya

Ok sure ger. TERRENCE HOW CAN U LET GERRY DO THAT! TAKE A SEAT GODDAMMIT!

 

[NateW]

He neither went to the basket or flared for a 3 on the break.

This.

And then he was dopey enough to attempt to catch a deflected pass. Just let it go out and fight another day.

 

[AZOrange]

Kalebs big problem is that he's totally uncomfortable on the court. Watch the O when he comes in. Nothing toward the hoop.

 

[MSOrange]

Kaleb needs to watch a tape of the Villanova game from last year and just try to keep doing that.

 

[Ghost]

If KJO was a true whipping boy He wouldn't have been in the game after the yelling. He was though

He was?

 

[Flacusian]

From my vantage point here's what I saw with Joseph just prior to Boeheim showing him his tonsils... The Cuse was on a 2 on one fast break and Cooney passed the ball across the center of the zone and it wasdeflected by an A&M player, as the ball changed it's trajectory toward the baseline to the right of the basket Joseph reached out in a half hearted attempt to get the ball and it was tipped by him and continued out of bounds...aTm ball! is the indication by the ref... it's time for a TV time out and just prior to cutting to commercial...the camera is focused on JB w/ veins popping out of his neck and his eyes pushing against the lenses of his glasses as he screams at Kaleb Joseph...

I was excited for the arrival of Kaleb Joseph and watched the short documentary which showed his hometown and his preparation during his Sr. year with all of the training he did. It showed one sequence where he was in the car and was on the phone ostensibly with Hop...The kid definitely has talent and athletic ability but my pespective is that he is emotionally not as calloused as most kids. I think that the struggles he went through last year had a huge impact on his confidence and he struggles with self doubt. There were articles prior to the start of this season in which he was quoted as saying he looks at last years experience as a learning opportunity and he is ok with it...yada yada, ...

It's seems abundantly clear to me that when he is out there what's going through his noggin is ...Oh.. please don't make a mistake.. .oh please don't let me screw this up. He appears to be a kid not playing the game instinctively with his God given talent one moment at a time but rather a kid who is petrified that he will make a mistake and further distance himself from playing a valuable role on this team.

It's a tough world out there and kids need to be able to take the criticism they get from a coach when the screw up but I think KJ would benefit from a little less screaming and a little more nurturing or I fear we won't see him in an Orange uni next season. I really feel for the kid because he was thrust into a role he clearly wasn't ready for last year and now he is wedged somewhere firmly on the bench between the starters and the walk-ons / non players during regular season games.

 

[orangefan13]

He was?

yup

 

[Ghost]

yup

I didn't think he cane back in after that - weird. Either way, hope the kid gets it together.

 

[OttoMets]

Yeah I didn't see why he caught some face time. Not saying on that particular play, but way more than once, I've felt certain guys will get yelled at when the fault was with a player who never gets yelled at. Am talking prior seasons.

Yeah, Christmas spent a season getting berated for Kris Joseph's missed rotations.

It's always frustrating to see this, but I was especially disappointed to see Boeheim's handling of Kaleb Joseph this week. It's clear what he's doing, and it's a shame - Joseph worked hard all summer, came back improved, and now has to be at a low point in terms of confidence.

Only negative in an otherwise fun and satisfying tournament win in which our guys played good basketball.

 

[Dave85]

Kaleb's confidence has to be very low right now. Played 4 minutes today, had zeroes across his entire stat line, and was verbally berated by JB for a messed up fast break that was probably more Cooney's fault than his.

This kid is very important to the overall success of this team. Cooney and G can't be expected to play 38-40 minutes every single night. We need him to come off the bench and provide quality guard play. I really hope he can get some of his mojo back over the next couple weeks, and be a guy we can rely on for 6-8 ppg and a few assists.

Too many mental errors. I think JB plays six guys most of the season.

 

[Dave85]

Yeah I didn't see why he caught some face time. Not saying on that particular play, but way more than once, I've felt certain guys will get yelled at when the fault was with a player who never gets yelled at. Am talking prior seasons.

If he was paying attention he would have see the ball was obviously deflected and to just let it go out of bounds instead of losing a key possession. Touch lesson. Hopefully it sank in.