Kansas to play a Syracuse zone? | Syracusefan.com

Kansas to play a Syracuse zone?

ImperialOrange said:
The Syracuse zone... you think you know, but you have no idea.
Expand...

I remember the old like 2003 NCAA video game where the 2-3 would be the players just doing jumping jacks in a set 2-3. They didn't rotate they just faced the ball while standing in place with their arms up.

Somehow I don't think that is quite the defense that has been shutting it down for the last 5 years. People* have no idea, they think they do though, and that plays into Syracuse's hands.





*for the purposes of this post, Jamie Dixon and Rick Pitino are not people, and Calhoun was never human anyway.
 
I hope they play a great zone.

I hope we meet in the final four.

I hope they'll be ready to compete against a zone featuring ennis, silent g, roberson, GRANT, FAIR, CHRISTMAS, KEITA, Patterson, BJ, Cooney, Coleman and company.

I capitalized those 4 names because they display defense that is coached (by Jim and his proven staff) not formed in High school.

I will laugh when we embarrass them.
 
DNABB5 said:
I remember the old like 2003 NCAA video game where the 2-3 would be the players just doing jumping jacks in a set 2-3. They didn't rotate they just faced the ball while standing in place with their arms up.

Somehow I don't think that is quite the defense that has been shutting it down for the last 5 years. People* have no idea, they think they do though, and that plays into Syracuse's hands.





*for the purposes of this post, Jamie Dixon and Rick Pitino are not people, and Calhoun was never human anyway.
Expand...
In the last 5 years or so when our zone has been elite, all of those guys struggled against it for the most part.
 
007, Phil, and Imperial have a point. Interestingly, our zone is not that difficult to teach. The basic Xs and Os are not the reason that it is so effective most years. There are three fundamental reasons why our zone is difficult to replicate despite the "simplistic" Xs and Os:
  • Coach Boeheim's commitment to playing zone--most teams use zone as a secondary (or tertiary if they press) defensive option. This means they don't give it the attention to detail or practice time necessary for players to maximize their potential within it. Like anything else in life, it is difficult to concurrently excel in multiple areas. Boeheim knows this, so he has chosen the zone as the area on which his teams will focus, mainly because it eliminates 70% or more of the opponent's playbook--most teams don't run or practice more than a few zone plays.
  • The length of our athletes--because we recruit for the zone, we possess athletes that can cover ground in our scheme with their height and wingspan. A team can play zone with any type of athlete, but it isn't likely to close out on shooters or trap as effectively if the players aren't collectively blessed with length. Since most teams recruit for man-to-man defensive schemes, they aren't built to zone like we are, putting a ceiling on their potential when playing it.
  • The adjustments and "surprises" we employ--we incorporate a number of elements that "normal" zones don't, including traps, shading to shooters, ball-screen counters, overload counters, and free-throw-line entries. This last one is a good example of how we adjust to the teams/players we face. Experts constantly espouse that getting the ball to the free-throw-line area is the way to beat a zone. However, Coach Boeheim says that he prefers when teams use this strategy because most players that catch the ball in this spot lack the necessary ball skills to do damage from there. Hence, we often encourage opponents to pass the ball to that spot. However, there are players that can consistently make plays (shots, dribble drives, passes) from there, so we adjust to discourage that entry or to force that player to move the ball out of that spot as quickly as possible. Likewise, a good example of a "surprise" in our zone is when we trap the corners. We don't always do it, but we do it enough that many teams don't want to pass to the corners unless doing so is part of a designed play. Even then, when opponents aren't ready for that trap (or the length of the players executing it), it often leads to turnovers, wasted timeouts, or rushed shots.
 
Another superb coach orange post.

As I've said before- the fact of the matter is the zone is not that difficult to teach (as you elude to). These kids have played zone for many, many years I can guarantee you that. Jimmy didn't reinvent the wheel, he only improved it.

It's the compliment of players we have and the corresponding small adjustments mid game that make ours so effective.

Thank you coach orange-- every time I make a post like that someone tells me my "schtick sucks". I won't name names :eek:
 
Coach Orange said:
007, Phil, and Imperial have a point. Interestingly, our zone is not that difficult to teach. The basic Xs and Os are not the reason that it is so effective most years.
Expand...

Complete Bunk. It is the same arrogance KU is demonstrating. This zone is difficult and not easily replicated. Let's examine your reasoning in more detail:

1. When you say other teams don't give the attention to detail or practice time necessary, blah, blah, blah. That suggests difficulty. It is the cop out that all the other teams give, "we would be just as good if we used it all the time". That suggests that there is a lot to learn and it is not easy (or else a lot of time wouldn't be needed).

2. "recruiting for the zone". Maybe now as we move into selector school status it is more of a factor, but this hasn't been the case for long. Offense has ruled. Otherwise how do you explain, Devendorf, Flynn, Harris, or even DC2.

But, yes, I do agree that (most of) the players are now being selected, in part, to play this defense. And it is taking the nastiness to new levels. But they have to be taught how to do it. Fab/Rak/MCW/(DC2) are all recent examples of McD zone recruits that still needed a least a year to learn how to play it. That does not suggest an easy system.

3. Adjustments and surprises are part of our zone. It is part of learning to play it. It is part of what JB teaches. Saying our zone is not that difficult to teach and leaving out the adjustments is ridiculous.

I don't know why so many people want to discredit the job that is being done. This defense just set NCAAT records for nastiness. It is no tavern league zone.
 
This is hilarious because KU fans absolutely love to discredit the zone at every opportunity, whether it's ours or Baylor's.

Self has always been a huge believer in straight-up man to man and it works. His teams rarely press or use gimmicks like triangle and two.

Still, I can't blame him that much. With a freak like Embiid, I suppose it makes some sense to at least try zoning every now and again. I wouldn't hold my breath, though.
 
M2MPrinciples said:
This is hilarious because KU fans absolutely love to discredit the zone at every opportunity, whether it's ours or Baylor's.

Self has always been a huge believer in straight-up man to man and it works. His teams rarely press or use gimmicks like triangle and two.

Still, I can't blame him that much. With a freak like Embiid, I suppose it makes some sense to at least try zoning every now and again. I wouldn't hold my breath, though.
Expand...

Kansas fans need to w respect to Syracuse, considering the fact that, you know, they are one for four against us. BTW in each of those games they were favored, and that one win was Gooden/Collison vs Billy Celluck.
 
Also, if you read the article, the zone comment is kind of a throwaway comment at the end of the article.
 
Knicks411 said:
Also, if you read the article, the zone comment is kind of a throwaway comment at the end of the article.
Expand...


Absolutely. There's nothing here to see. Zone defense and the Syracuse zone is not synonymous.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
173,940
Messages
5,122,226
Members
6,080
Latest member
sar7779

Share this page

Online statistics

Members online
24
Guests online
807
Total visitors
831
Totals may include hidden visitors.


...
Top Bottom