KenPom Rankings | Page 5 | Syracusefan.com

KenPom Rankings

We did have the one year where margin of victory cost us the NCAA tournament at large slot.

Our first year with Red as coach, we won a lot of decent games, and every one was a nail biter... On the other hand, we got blown out of a bunch of games where we were in single digits with less than five minutes and let the other team expand margin to blowout range over and over. I think it hurt the NET and perception enough to keep us out.

LSU, Gtown, Oregon and UNC were the wins along with @ NC State. Not sure if MOV would have been enough should we have kept the losses close and had more blowouts but certainly would have impacted the conversation
 
i mean, obviously I hope the team goes undefeated and beats all the Quad 1 games. surely, having some quality wins will be vital to the teams success

but teams like Baylor (14 losses) Kansas (12 losses) UNC (13 losses) Oklahoma (13 losses) Arkansas (13 losses) all made the NCAAT last year ...mostly on margin of victory (and being lucky to be in good conferences)...shows that you can lose and lose A LOT and still squeek in if you have good margin of victory

Im not saying that should be the goal...just want to highlight it because based on reds first 2 years, I dont think he considered margin of victory at all...was just going for W-L record...it seemed.

this 40 point win vs binghampton is encouraging on that front...i think he gets it now (hopefully) (obviously having better players helps there too)
How about we win a singular Q1 game this year. That would be nice. We didn’t have 1 good win last season!
 
I would add that the rules almost require blowouts because of the NET, but additionally the new roster construction rules make coaching to sportsmanship harder than previously.

With Womack redshirting, we don't really have a group of "walkon quality" players to call off the dogs.

Lobdell, sure, but Zephir, Fennell, Diawara, and, say, Souare isn't exactly going to be playing even with low major squads, even if they are arguably our bottom 5 on the roster.
I think Souare will play a decent amount. He’s a solid mobile defender and good rim protector/shot blocker.
 
We did have the one year where margin of victory cost us the NCAA tournament at large slot.

Our first year with Red as coach, we won a lot of decent games, and every one was a nail biter... On the other hand, we got blown out of a bunch of games where we were in single digits with less than five minutes and let the other team expand margin to blowout range over and over. I think it hurt the NET and perception enough to keep us out.

We didn't have enough in terms of the quality of our win/loss record that year, so it didn't make a difference. Not to say the MOV couldn't have made a difference if we won a few more games - it certainly could have.

A few more wins, and we are squarely on the bubble - teams typically don't get biased if there quality of record is fine, but the NET/RPI is above 60 just from observations. But we would have been above 60 that year.
 
Regarding the "pedal to the metal" posts. There is a certain nuance to it.

a) It's not highly important to Syracuse to really push for every individual point in its own games. You want by nice margins -- in big part that correlates with the quality if your team. If you have a good enough quality of record that is what defines your resume, not NET.

b) That being said you want your conference mates to push for every freaking point they can in there OOC games, because that improves NETS as a whole for the entire conference, which could add a quality win or two by season's end.

So essentially "pedal to the medal" is not done for Syracuse own's benefit. Its done to help your conference mates. And vice versa.

So that is the balancing act. You want to play more players, to help your team develop in the current and future years. But you also have an obligation to help the metrics of your conference mates. And they have an obligation to help your metrics as well.
 
Regarding the "pedal to the metal" posts. There is a certain nuance to it.

a) It's not highly important to Syracuse to really push for every individual point in its own games. You want by nice margins -- in big part that correlates with the quality if your team. If you have a good enough quality of record that is what defines your resume, not NET.

b) That being said you want your conference mates to push for every freaking point they can in there OOC games, because that improves NETS as a whole for the entire conference, which could add a quality win or two by season's end.

So essentially "pedal to the medal" is not done for Syracuse own's benefit. Its done to help your conference mates. And vice versa.

So that is the balancing act. You want to play more players, to help your team develop in the current and future years. But you also have an obligation to help the metrics of your conference mates. And they have an obligation to help your metrics as well.
Your second point is true. Sadly, I found myself cheering for Duke and North Carolina in their big games (and VT vs Providence) for just that reason. How our conference does is critical to get more quad one games.

The mountain west has been doing this for the last few years. Almost no quality wins outside of their conference, but it did not matter because laughably, the wins in conference were considered “quality”. While the ACC was losing the non conference games to the other power conferences, the Mountain West wasn’t even bothering to play those games. They proved it doesn’t really make any sense to play those games if you’re going to lose them. You don’t need to.

This year there will be a few more bids for the real conferences however. Boise State lost to a division 2 School already, (quad five loss?) so we likely won’t have to listen to all the experts tell us how “sneaky good” they are. They won’t be a fake quad 1 win for Utah State. Of last year’s top 5 schools, only San Diego State plays any currently ranked teams at all! That’s pathetic. But sadly with the net rankings, it’s proven to be a recipe for a success.

I hope this year the committee sees through that charade.
 
Your second point is true. Sadly, I found myself cheering for Duke and North Carolina in their big games (and VT vs Providence) for just that reason. How our conference does is critical to get more quad one games.

The mountain west has been doing this for the last few years. Almost no quality wins outside of their conference, but it did not matter because laughably, the wins in conference were considered “quality”. While the ACC was losing the non conference games to the other power conferences, the Mountain West wasn’t even bothering to play those games. They proved it doesn’t really make any sense to play those games if you’re going to lose them. You don’t need to.

This year there will be a few more bids for the real conferences however. Boise State lost to a division 2 School already, (quad five loss?) so we likely won’t have to listen to all the experts tell us how “sneaky good” they are. They won’t be a fake quad 1 win for Utah State. Of last year’s top 5 schools, only San Diego State plays any currently ranked teams at all! That’s pathetic. But sadly with the net rankings, it’s proven to be a recipe for a success.

I hope this year the committee sees through that charade.

Explaining the Mountain West is more difficult and complex, and I don't think its as simple as what you have stated.. I know the ACC switching to that MWC type schedule will not automatically benefit them (on the floor and financially) I have tried to figure it out for a while but its not nearly as clear as the P5 formula (see paragraph 2). MWC still plays a number of Q4 games, and certainly don't dominate in those, so margin is not their secret sauce. I'll get back to MWC in paragraph 3. But I will state that power conference teams have no interest in taking that MWC scheduling route (road games) and they probably wouldn't be rewarded by doing the same thing schedule wise, in particular the top 3 or so power conferences. It takes a while, but the bolded point below is key.

The Power 5 conferences all basically do the same thing schedule wise, and the system is set up to reward them more than anybody else - especially the ones who do best in OOC in both margin and head to head performance is going to dominate in seeds They all tinker a bit, but its really all the same thing. For example the SEC got 14 seeds last year not only because of dominance in margin, but more because they won about 80% of the games head to head against other top conferences. I suppose if you know you are the conference that will really stink that year amongst the P5 (like ACC), it will not help you. But if you are one of the top 3 in the P5 or if you are close to the top conference and in 4th, the system will reward you in spades. So its not a schedule type a conference wants to veer from, and the best P5 conferences will do better.. Of course the ACC was terrible last year so the system failed them. .

Getting back to the MWC. They do 3 things different than the power conferences. 3 things that power conferences have zero interest in doing schedule wise. Part of it is also location .
a) Play more road games in OOC.
b) Play a number of Q2 games and Q3 games
c) Don't play a number of head to head neutral games against P5.

Road games is huge in helping their NET. NET gives a bump to road game - something like KenPom does not, it just makes a margin adjustment. Its why MWC tends to much better in NET compared to KP, while the P5 schools tend to be fairly even in both metrics.

In terms of playing many more Q2/Q3 which the MWC does, veering to this strategy isn't going to help ACC teams or P5 teams. Especially if they don't want to play them on the road. Its easier to surpass the expected margin in Q4 games then Q2/Q3 games.

That being said the MWC tends to do as good or better in Q2 games (especially the tourney teams) than the P5 schools. They may do a better job of selecting opponents, but P5 schools don't do good against Q1/Q2 schools from mid-majors in OOC

I think the other factor that helps the MWC is bottom feeders know their damn role. Tends to be a pretty clean split between good and bad, and the good destroy the bad in conference play. Than the good who did fairly well in OOC, , help each other out by getting Q1/Q2 wins from each other. A cleaner split than the ACC or other power conferences. In the ACC, Georgia Tech, Florida St or somebody will crap the bed in OOC play and then step up in January. That hurts everybody in the ACC.

If you are the ACC (or a P5) you don't want to schedule like the MWC, because if the conference is good, the system will reward you even more handsomely with the heavy Q1/Q4 split. The downside of course if when your conference sucks like the ACC (and you are the clear #5 amongst the P5) you get hammered - and in that case the MWC schedule type might work better. I don't think the ACC's should admit that they a #5 conference each year, and try to maximize what they can get from that by scheduling like the MWC (which might not even maximize things. The goal should be to schedule like the other P5's, be a top 3 conference, and be rewarded even more handsomely by the system. Or to put it more simply, the SEC and B10 do not get 24 teams to the NCAA tournament last year if they decide to follow the MWC schedule.

The MWC is clearly the sixth best conference in America - has been for a while. Sometimes they get have been pretty close to #5, or in line with them. They have found the schedule that works for them at that rank. Can't deny that.
 
Last edited:

Forum statistics

Threads
175,052
Messages
5,201,253
Members
6,165
Latest member
Nnelg

Online statistics

Members online
17
Guests online
1,326
Total visitors
1,343


...
Top Bottom