kevin kelley's (no punt guy) new thing

[Millhouse]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ach-who-never-punts-has-another-radical-idea/

why run the option only behind the line of scrimmage?

i don't like backwards pitches. i don't want to turn incomplete tosses into fumbles. this isn't an obviously correct strategy to me. but it'll be interesting to see how they do with it

 

[OrangePA]

Love this guy.

The play off game where he had I think a 21-0 lead before the opponent had even touched the ball maybe the greatest thing I have ever seen in football.

 

[FrancoPizza]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ach-who-never-punts-has-another-radical-idea/

why run the option only behind the line of scrimmage?

i don't like backwards pitches. i don't want to turn incomplete tosses into fumbles. this isn't an obviously correct strategy to me. but it'll be interesting to see how they do with it

That's not how I interpreted the article. He wants to run the option after receivers catch the ball downfield, essentially.

 

[Millhouse]

That's not how I interpreted the article. He wants to run the option after receivers catch the ball downfield, essentially.

i think we're interpreting the same way, just describing it differently. they'll pitch the ball backwards even when they're past the line of scrimmage

 

[ImperialOrange]

Hook and ladder... he probably watched varsity blues prior to writing that article.

 

[Brooky03]

All I'm saying, is as a former defensive back, I would salivate at the thought of receivers tossing the ball around to each other willy-nilly.

 

[FrancoPizza]

i think we're interpreting the same way, just describing it differently. they'll pitch the ball backwards even when they're past the line of scrimmage

You do realize that a forward pitch past the LOS is illegal right?

 

[Brooky03]

You do realize that a forward pitch past the LOS is illegal right?

I don't think you read his post right

 

[Millhouse]

I don't think you read his post right

thank you - i give up

 

[Guy Fawkes]

You do realize that a forward pitch past the LOS is illegal right?

I'm pretty positive Millhouse knows a forward pitch is illegal past the LOS. He is a Bills fan - see Music City Miracle. I believe Millhouse is saying you have a chance to fumble the pitch, and to pitch the ball you give up yardage, therefore it's a risky play.

 

[Millhouse]

I'm pretty positive Millhouse knows a forward pitch is illegal past the LOS. He is a Bills fan - see Music City Miracle. I believe Millhouse is saying you have a chance to fumble the pitch, and to pitch the ball you give up yardage, therefore it's a risky play.

i hate you for bringing that up

 

[dollarbill44]

I don't think this experiment will work out that well if it's run frequently. I would think that the risk of a fumble is multiplicative, as opposed to additive, the more guys you have pitching the ball around (especially in HS). Running the option behind the LOS should effectively relegate the defenders to your forward field of vision. Downfield pitches could have defenders in front, to the side and even behind. I could see running it as a trick play, but I would be very reticent to include it in the regular play rotation.

But hey, I remember it working for the Little Rascals.:noidea:

 

[Brooky03]

I don't think this experiment will work out that well if it's run frequently. I would think that the risk of a fumble is multiplicative, as opposed to additive, the more guys you have pitching the ball around (especially in HS). Running the option behind the LOS should effectively relegate the defenders to your forward field of vision. Downfield pitches could have defenders in front, to the side and even behind. I could see running it as a trick play, but I would be very reticent to include it in the regular play rotation.

I find it odd that he first mentions the value of not turning the ball over and then suggests this idea which must increase the odds of a turnover significantly.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Innovation is great - thinking out of the box is great - we need more of it. But it's not surprising that these types eventually succumb to vanity (e.g. knowing when to hold 'em and fold 'em). This is where you need assistants to provide checks and balances and talk you back from the ledge of obsession/delusion. I'll get igored, but I see some parallels with JB and the zone.

 

[texascpa]

If Rugby players can do it, why can't football players?

 

[ImperialOrange]

I don't think this experiment will work out that well if it's run frequently. I would think that the risk of a fumble is multiplicative, as opposed to additive, the more guys you have pitching the ball around (especially in HS). Running the option behind the LOS should effectively relegate the defenders to your forward field of vision. Downfield pitches could have defenders in front, to the side and even behind. I could see running it as a trick play, but I would be very reticent to include it in the regular play rotation.

But hey, I remember it working for the Little Rascals.:noidea:

Not to mention you would get your players killed. If I'm a D coordinator on game week and preparing for you I'm telling my guys to hit the ball carrier and every offensive player within 5 yards of it on every play. There may be flags but eventually your players will want no part of it.

 

[texascpa]

Love this guy.

The play off game where he had I think a 21-0 lead before the opponent had even touched the ball maybe the greatest thing I have ever seen in football.

Video in the OP's link where he discusses the first game he used the onside philosophy and it netted them a 29-0 lead in the first 4 and half minutes of the first quarter.

 

[texascpa]

Hey, I was right! From the OP's article:

But when at least three players touched the ball – a trick play with a lateral involved – the percentage for gaining 20 yards rose to around 20 percent.

“That got me thinking,” Kelley said. “How could we develop a system for more than two people to touch the ball?”

One day, watching television, Kelley stumbled across a rugby game. That was it. Rugby teams built designed plays despite constant movement, an intricate series of laterals. Teammates didn’t block for the ball carrier; they rushed to the right spot to receive a pitch.

And so Kelley instituted a new system.

 

[Brooky03]

Video in the OP's link where he discusses the first game he used the onside philosophy and it netted them a 29-0 lead in the first 4 and half minutes of the first quarter.

What the heck was the opposing team doing? I get it if this guys team surprised them and recovered the first onside kick, but I don't understand how he got the second (and third?) one. Catching an onside kick is not a terribly hard thing to do.

 

[PhatOrange]

What the heck was the opposing team doing? I get it if this guys team surprised them and recovered the first onside kick, but I don't understand how he got the second (and third?) one. Catching an onside kick is not a terribly hard thing to do.

go watch the video and tell me again that it's not hard thing to do.

the kicks were perfect. I think every one of them leaves the camera frame they're so high. the receivers get blasted by the first wave of coverage as they're waiting for the ball to come down.

 

[Brooky03]

go watch the video and tell me again that it's not hard thing to do.

the kicks were perfect. I think every one of them leaves the camera frame they're so high. the receivers get blasted by the first wave of coverage as they're waiting for the ball to come down.

Fair enough, I hadn't watched the video. It's hard to tell because it's not the highest quality but it does look like that kicker hit some really nice onside kicks.

That said, after realizing the onside kick strategy, I would think the opposing team would have figured out that chilling 10 yards off the ball and having every player try to recover it wasn't the brightest idea. Send 5 linebackers/linemen sprinting at the Pulaski players to match them helmet-for-helmet and leave 2 or 3 receivers behind to get the ball. It's basically the reverse of what Pulaski does and I've seen it done before so it's by no means revolutionary.

 

[upperdeck]

a few things.

1) the first onside kick, the rules have changed so that if the ball is kicked directly into the ground then the opposing team can call fair catch so that play is gone. not sure if HS has gone to this rule though
2) the team was offsides on at least 2 of the kicks
3) the formation is now illegal in HS on almost every kick they tried in the video
4) the penalty is now in place for hitting a defenseless player
5) contact before the ball has gone 10 yds is not allowed so a couple of those that was a penalty not called
6) players must be within 5 yds of LOS on kick so that is not allowed either

as for the pitch all over thing.

when you run a qb pitch play they know the D is most often going to be coming from 1-2 angles. you add in down field stuff and now you have 4 directions. add to that the RB

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

That's not how I interpreted the article. He wants to run the option after receivers catch the ball downfield, essentially.

Well, if you set up the routes correctly, so that the pitch relationship is established, the defenders cannot just swarm to the ball. They have to worry about the pitch.

 

[Brooky03]

a few things.

1) the first onside kick, the rules have changed so that if the ball is kicked directly into the ground then the opposing team can call fair catch so that play is gone. not sure if HS has gone to this rule though
2) the team was offsides on at least 2 of the kicks
3) the formation is now illegal in HS on almost every kick they tried in the video
4) the penalty is now in place for hitting a defenseless player
5) contact before the ball has gone 10 yds is not allowed so a couple of those that was a penalty not called
6) players must be within 5 yds of LOS on kick so that is not allowed either

as for the pitch all over thing.

when you run a qb pitch play they know the D is most often going to be coming from 1-2 angles. you add in down field stuff and now you have 4 directions. add to that the RB

damn, nice work. Are a lot of these new or just unknown/not enforced by a high percentage of refs? For instance, I know my high school team (in 2009) would run an onside kick where the kicker would kick a slow roller straight ahead at the one guy standing there, a player from each side of the kicker would converge to light-up the 'returner' when the ball was at about 8 yards, and then the kicker would fall on the ball at 10 yards. This breaks at least two of the rules you listed, so has it always been illegal or just recently? We ran it at least 5 times with a 100% success rate.

 

[upperdeck]

most of these are last 5 years or so in HS.