Kicking ball into stands from 50-yard line

[TheOrangeBuddha]

Always amazed at how conservative football coaches are ... And Shafer falls into that category. It is beyond the pall why teams continue to kick the ball into the stands when they have a shortened kickoff opportunity. Whether you try an onside kick or pop the ball up for coverage ... The cost/benefit analysis greatly outweighs blasting the ball through the end zone and giving your opponent first and ten at their 25-yard line. Coaches doing what has always been done in the past does not make it the correct course of action.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Agreed. In addition CMU was offside on the play so he could have kicked it off from the 45 after the penalty which is even less risky, but he chose to decline the penalty.

It isn't a big deal either way. Plays like this aren't going to typically win or lose you a game.

 

[Alsacs]

Belichick and most coaches do this as well. I guess with the college touchback being the 25 it makes less sense in college but less kickoffs means less risk for injuries.
I don't mind a popup kickoff in that situation but touchbacks aren't the worse thing. The smartest thing to do in that situation in college FB would be to kick it off and out and bounds. The ball would go to the 20 on a kickoff from the 50.

 

[longtimefan]

Belichick and most coaches do this as well. I guess with the college touchback being the 25 it makes less sense in college but less kickoffs means less risk for injuries.
I don't mind a popup kickoff in that situation but touchbacks aren't the worse thing. The smartest thing to do in that situation in college FB would be to kick it off and out and bounds. The ball would go to the 20 on a kickoff from the 50.

Are you sure aboat that interpretation?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Always amazed at how conservative football coaches are ... And Shafer falls into that category. It is beyond the pall why teams continue to kick the ball into the stands when they have a shortened kickoff opportunity. Whether you try an onside kick or pop the ball up for coverage ... The cost/benefit analysis greatly outweighs blasting the ball through the end zone and giving your opponent first and ten at their 25-yard line. Coaches doing what has always been done in the past does not make it the correct course of action.

Gotta factor injuries into KO coverage as well.

 

[upperdeck]

we have a whole thread about how bad the pass D was and no we want to give cmu the ball where one pass puts them in field goal range after we already saw the kicker had a leg to make it from 55+. just what we need to recover the kick and have the QB throw an INT for a td. but wilson would never do that.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Are you sure aboat that interpretation?

I think that would be correct since it is 30 from the kickoff point. However the ball would need to go out inside the 20 or the team would decline it.

 

[Alsacs]

Are you sure aboat that interpretation?

If the kickoff goes out of bounds you get the ball 30 yards from the kickoff spot or where the ball went out of bounds.

 

[TheOrangeBuddha]

Agreed. In addition CMU was offside on the play so he could have kicked it off from the 45 after the penalty which is even less risky, but he chose to decline the penalty.

It isn't a big deal either way. Plays like this aren't going to typically win or lose you a game.

I tried to reply to your post in another thread but it was locked ... You are correct. It simply made no sense and showed a complete lack of understanding game theory/game management.

 

[Finwad32]

As a general rule a return man is a team's most dangerous player. Common consensus is to not give them an opportunity to showcase that. Right, wrong or indifferent, most of the coaches I know would take a touchback on a kickoff every day of the week.

 

[SWC75]

Squib it. It could be mishandled and even if it isn't the guy isn't going very far. A bouncing ball would likely go beyond the 25. You also might get a blocking penalty due to the disorganized result.

 

[Millhouse]

Always amazed at how conservative football coaches are ... And Shafer falls into that category. It is beyond the pall why teams continue to kick the ball into the stands when they have a shortened kickoff opportunity. Whether you try an onside kick or pop the ball up for coverage ... The cost/benefit analysis greatly outweighs blasting the ball through the end zone and giving your opponent first and ten at their 25-yard line. Coaches doing what has always been done in the past does not make it the correct course of action.

I remember joe danelo kicking one through the uprights for a horrendous bills team thirty some years ago probably coached by hank bullough and thinking everyone was stupid for cheering. There were probably 25k at that bills game. This stuff is obviously dumb, even to little kids

 

[Millhouse]

As a general rule a return man is a team's most dangerous player. Common consensus is to not give them an opportunity to showcase that. Right, wrong or indifferent, most of the coaches I know would take a touchback on a kickoff every day of the week.

that consensus shows how coaches have no intuition about probabilities

 

[Alsacs]

that consensus shows how coaches have no intuition about probabilities

What did you think of Rex going for 2 down 12 when you always kick the PAT until going for 2 has to be done. That point played a major factor for BB kicking a FG up 5.
Also you must have loved BB going for 4th and 1 3 times even though I was pissed with calling deep passes on two of them.

 

[Finwad32]

that consensus shows how coaches have no intuition about probabilities

I agree that probabilities should factor in a gameplan and situational decision making with enough data behind it. But, Special Teams, more specifically Kickoff and Punt, get roughly 5% of allotted practice time typically. The NCAA just doesn't give you a ton of field time. And, they're probably the most difficult to coach from a technique standpoint. Too much can go wrong when everybody is split all over the field running full bore.

Not everything can be looked at from a macro point of view. Especially when you've got to diagnose match ups, scawwwwt and install ST's for a week. More can go wrong than can go right.

 

[Millhouse]

What did you think of Rex going for 2 down 12 when you always kick the PAT until going for 2 has to be done. That point played a major factor for BB kicking a FG up 5. Also you must have loved BB going for 4th and 1 3 times even though I was pissed with calling deep passes on two of them.

there was a lot of stupidity in that game on both sides. Brady is too good

 

[Millhouse]

I agree that probabilities should factor in a gameplan and situational decision making with enough data behind it. But, Special Teams, more specifically Kickoff and Punt, get roughly 5% of allotted practice time typically. The NCAA just doesn't give you a ton of field time. And, they're probably the most difficult to coach from a technique standpoint. Too much can go wrong when everybody is split all over the field running full bore. Not everything can be looked at from a macro point of view. Especially when you've got to diagnose match ups, scawwwwt and install ST's for a week. More can go wrong than can go right.

If kick returns are so dangerous smart coaches would let guys return from the back of the end zone. They don't. There is no making sense of coaching consensus

 

[NineOneSeven]

Kick returners are not even close to most team's most dangerous playmakers

 

[longtimefan]

If the kickoff goes out of bounds you get the ball 30 yards from the kickoff spot or where the ball went out of bounds.

I always wonder if there's an exception to a rule, where violating would give the offending team an advantage.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I agree that probabilities should factor in a gameplan and situational decision making with enough data behind it. But, Special Teams, more specifically Kickoff and Punt, get roughly 5% of allotted practice time typically. The NCAA just doesn't give you a ton of field time. And, they're probably the most difficult to coach from a technique standpoint. Too much can go wrong when everybody is split all over the field running full bore.

Not everything can be looked at from a macro point of view. Especially when you've got to diagnose match ups, scawwwwt and install ST's for a week. More can go wrong than can go right.

Wouldn't this mean you want to try even riskier things? I mean, how often has CMU practiced the possibility of having an inside kick from the 50?

 

[Finwad32]

Kick returners are not even close to most team's most dangerous playmakers

Not true whatsoever

 

[Alsacs]

I always wonder if there's an exception to a rule, where violating would give the offending team an advantage.

I don't believe so but the receiving could decline the penalty and force a rekick. When college football passed a rule that the clock would start on a kick I remember Brett Bielma against Penn State instructing his team to go offsides and burn clock on a kickoff and it ticking off Joe Paterno.

 

[Finwad32]

If kick returns are so dangerous smart coaches would let guys return from the back of the end zone. They don't. There is no making sense of coaching consensus

I don't agree. you're talking about an entirely different unit. It's not even the opposite side of the same argument, it's a different discussion entirely.

 

[Finwad32]

Wouldn't this mean you want to try even riskier things? I mean, how often has CMU practiced the possibility of having an inside kick from the 50?

You wouldn't practice it much at all, if at all entirely, but the same is said for the Kickoff Unit.

If I'm up 2 TD's, I'm not giving them the opportunity to swing momentum with a big return.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

You wouldn't practice it much at all, if at all entirely, but the same is said for the Kickoff Unit.

If I'm up 2 TD's, I'm not giving them the opportunity to swing momentum with a big return.

Kickers practice popping the ball up. We have done it this year. The KR man is standing at the goaline. If you pop it up toward the side, one of the up men will have to take it. Most likely they call a fair catch which would be at the 15 yard line. That is 10 yards better than the 25. There isn't a risk.