King of the specious arugments

[SWC75]

John Saunders, who for years argued against expanding the playoff beyond the BCS's two teams because it would ruin the regular season, the whole year is a single elimination tournament, etc. is now arguing against an expansion to 8 teams because "It might include some teams that don't really belong there,citing Arizona and Michigan State, who were rankled #7-8 by the committee last week. He'd rather leave Ohio State and Baylor out to include them in to avoid having teams that "don't belong there".

What NCAA championship tournament uses that as a criteria?

 

[SmilinBob]

I would by far rather error by having the P5 champions included than trying to keep out a team or two that didn't. The talking heads lose their BS yapping if the champion is determined by earning a spot instead of increasing the self worth of pundits with an agenda.

 

[Stern]

John Saunders, who for years argued against expanding the playoff beyond the BCS's two teams because it would ruin the regular season, the whole year is a single elimination tournament, etc. is now arguing against an expansion to 8 teams because "It might include some teams that don't really belong there,citing Arizona and Michigan State, who were rankled #7-8 by the committee last week. He'd rather leave Ohio State and Baylor out to include them in to avoid having teams that "don't belong there".

What NCAA championship tournament uses that as a criteria?

Saunders is right. Start expanding this thing and it becomes a joke. It makes almost every game yesterday meaningless then. Telling me if Bama or FSU lost yesterday they wouldn't have been in the playoff? The more you expand it the more you water down the season.

College Football has a playoff...starts in late August. Goes till Early December

 

[SmilinBob]

Saunders is right. Start expanding this thing and it becomes a joke. It makes almost every game yesterday meaningless then. Telling me if Bama or FSU lost yesterday they wouldn't have been in the playoff? The more you expand it the more you water down the season.

College Football has a playoff...starts in late August. Goes till Early December

I disagree. All the games would have been huge and to add to that having a possible home advantage if that is implemented in the first round. Wisconsin would have had more to fight for as would Georgia Tech. It makes the CCG even more important as well and to get the chance to play in that game you have to win games in the regular season thus making each game very important.

 

[SWC75]

Saunders is right. Start expanding this thing and it becomes a joke. It makes almost every game yesterday meaningless then. Telling me if Bama or FSU lost yesterday they wouldn't have been in the playoff? The more you expand it the more you water down the season.

College Football has a playoff...starts in late August. Goes till Early December

The basketball season isn't "watered down" with a 68 team playoff.

We've seen that more regular season games mattered with 4 teams than with 2 teams. Even more of them ill matter with 8 teams. The "ruin the regular season" argument is about 30 team pro leagues with a 16 team playoff, not a 125 team division with a 4 or 8 team playoff.

 

[HOFCeluck]

The basketball season isn't "watered down" with a 68 team playoff.

We've seen that more regular season games mattered with 4 teams than with 2 teams. Even more of them ill matter with 8 teams. The "ruin the regular season" argument is about 30 team pro leagues with a 16 team playoff, not a 125 team division with a 4 or 8 team playoff.

But nationally, unless you have a team, no one cares about college basketball until March.

 

[Alsacs]

Saunders position is elitist. 8 teams is not too many. If each of the P5 conferences got an autobid and then the 3 best atlarge teams you have a perfect tournament.
Regular season conference play loses absolutely no importance because each conference game would impact the playoffs and playing a tough nonconference would help get you consideration for one of the 3 at-larges.

 

[omniorange]

But nationally, unless you have a team, no one cares about college basketball until March.

Exactly. There is a reason why bb games during the season have difficulty rating above a 1.o. Even the conference championships have become a joke in this age when 6 and 7 bid leagues are not uncommon. But the tourney is the best there is which is why all the big TV bucks are in that and not in conference TV contracts.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[omniorange]

The basketball season isn't "watered down" with a 68 team playoff.

We've seen that more regular season games mattered with 4 teams than with 2 teams. Even more of them ill matter with 8 teams. The "ruin the regular season" argument is about 30 team pro leagues with a 16 team playoff, not a 125 team division with a 4 or 8 team playoff.

The tourney isn't watered down. It just seems to get better and better. But not sure how the season itself isn't considered "watered down". Even conference championships don't carry the significance they once did in this age of 6 and 7 bid leagues. One can argue that much larger leagues now is the biggest contributor to that than expansion of the tourney through the ages and I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that. But more teams in the tourney was the secondary factor to conference basketball championships having less importance.

Still, the college basketball season isn't going to change now, unless college football goes away entirely. And how likely is that?

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Scooch]

Listen to Neil, he knows of what he speaks.

That being said, 8 is enough.

 

[SWC75]

The tourney isn't watered down. It just seems to get better and better. But not sure how the season itself isn't considered "watered down". Even conference championships don't carry the significance they once did in this age of 6 and 7 bid leagues. One can argue that much larger leagues now is the biggest contributor to that than expansion of the tourney through the ages and I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that. But more teams in the tourney was the secondary factor to conference basketball championships having less importance.

Still, the college basketball season isn't going to change now, unless college football goes away entirely. And how likely is that?

Cheers,
Neil

I'd like to see fewer teams than 68 in the basketball tournament, not because it waters down the regular seoasn but becuase there aren't anywhere near 68 teams that people think might be the bets team in the country. The idea is to have a tournament where the best plays the best to see who is the bets of the best. I'd like automatic bids to be go to the regular seasons and tournament champions of conferences that ahve proven they can produce national championship contenders. Everyone else needs to build up their resumes for for an at large bid.

 

[SWC75]

But nationally, unless you have a team, no one cares about college basketball until March.

You aren't going to watch a college basketball game that doesn't involve Syracuse until March?

 

[HOFCeluck]

You aren't going to watch a college basketball game that doesn't involve Syracuse until March?

SWC you and I grew up cheering for Syracuse. We have a team. I'm talking about the average sports fan.

What's getting coverage nationally right now? College football, NFL, NBA, and even MLB hot stove stuff are all getting more play than CBB.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Exactly. There is a reason why bb games during the season have difficulty rating above a 1.o.

Eh, this is true, but football is really primed schedule wise for viewing thanks to owning Saturdays and Sundays.

 

[upperdeck]

if you dont bet or have a team or play fantasy who is watching the nfl right now?

the best number is the one that has the teams that can argue they could win 3 to win the whole thing,

Im not sure Ariz could.. i think Mich state could as could miss st, baylor/tcu.
this year we had 1-2 teams and then 3-4 for the last 2 spots. some years you have only 1 top teams and 7-8 . say what you want but Wisc was playing for a nice bowl game.. but winning against OSU might have gotten them into an 8 team playoff.

and if oregon had lost they would not have been top 4, but who doesnt think in a top 8 series they could win it all?

1 late loss blows away 10 weeks of good play in this system, at least this system seems to care about the whole season, much more than the BCS ever did

 

[CanadianSU]

But nationally, unless you have a team, no one cares about college basketball until March.

Word.

 

[SWC75]

SWC you and I grew up cheering for Syracuse. We have a team. I'm talking about the average sports fan.

What's getting coverage nationally right now? College football, NFL, NBA, and even MLB hot stove stuff are all getting more play than CBB.

http://espn.go.com/

I see Louisville-Indiana one the cover page.

 

[Stern]

The basketball season isn't "watered down" with a 68 team playoff.
.

It's totally watered down. College basketball has turned into a 1 month sport. MARCH! You could not watch 1 game from November till the middle or end of February and you will not miss much.

Nobody cares about games you win in November, December, January, and most of February. The "BIG" regular season game in college basketball is almost dead. Sure in Syracuse when Duke comes the first time you will sell some insane number of tickets to game but that is rare and a one time deal. If SU lost that game last year, so what they were still going to the Tournament. For the big schools the outcomes of what used to be big games in Nov, Dec, Jan and most of February while nice don't carry the same weight. You can be like a Gonzaga or Witchita St and roll through the regular season then lose the 1st weekend of the tournament and your gonna say your season was good? HELL NO! You were a #1 seed and got ousted the first weekend. That season was a failure. Nobody cares about some "big" game you won in mid-January at that point. In college basketball you get judged off of March and nothing else. Nobody cares about the first 4 months of the season.

 

[Alsacs]

College Basketball isn't as popular because the sport isn't as popular as football in this country. Also the game isn't as well played as pro basketball. The rules and sloppy play hurt college basketball unless you have an attachment to one or the teams. Kentucky v. Texas was #1 v.#6 and the game was unwatchable.

College Football is a lot more popular because it isn't much different from pro football and the game is exciting. Until basketball becomes more popular and college basketball becomes better played the regular season won't be as popular.

 

[ImperialOrange]

If it were 2 teams instead of 4 this year the big ten championship and both bevo games wouldve been essentially meaningless.

Consequently, had it been 8 teams instead of 4, arizona, k state, ga tech, and possibly wisky all wouldve hade much more to play for than simply vying for roll of the spoiler. No worries about teams throwing games if they have a playoff spot they could potentially earn.

Conference championship games become round 1 of the playoffs if the winner is gaurenteed a spot. Need 8 spots to accommodate the p5 + 3.

 

[HOFCeluck]

http://espn.go.com/

I see Louisville-Indiana one the cover page.

At 1030 pm? This morning it's John Lester.

 

[HOFCeluck]

If it were 2 teams instead of 4 this year the big ten championship and both bevo games wouldve been essentially meaningless.

Consequently, had it been 8 teams instead of 4, arizona, k state, ga tech, and possibly wisky all wouldve hade much more to play for than simply vying for roll of the spoiler. No worries about teams throwing games if they have a playoff spot they could potentially earn.

Conference championship games become round 1 of the playoffs if the winner is gaurenteed a spot. Need 8 spots to accommodate the p5 + 3.

I agree. I think 8 is perfect. Anything more is execcessive.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I agree. I think 8 is perfect. Anything more is execcessive.

Agreed, if it was 8 team play off we'd be looking at first round matchups of:

1 Alabama v 8 Mich State/Boise State
2 Oregon v 7 Miss State
3 FSU v 6 TCU
4 Ohio State v 5 Baylor

Who wouldn't line up to watch each and every one of those games?

 

[Alsacs]

Agreed, if it was 8 team play off we'd be looking at first round matchups of:

1 Alabama v 8 Mich State/Boise State
2 Oregon v 7 Miss State
3 FSU v 6 TCU
4 Ohio State v 5 Baylor

Who wouldn't line up to watch each and every one of those games?

Georgia Tech may been picked over Michigan State. Michigan State's best wins are over Nebraska, @Penn State, @Maryland, Rutgers vs. Tech's wins over #13 @Georgia, #19 Clemson, @Virginia Tech, @NC State, @Pittsburgh.

I think the committee would pick Georgia Tech or Ole Miss over Michigan State who beat nobody and lost its two tough games.

 

[SWC75]

It's totally watered down. College basketball has turned into a 1 month sport. MARCH! You could not watch 1 game from November till the middle or end of February and you will not miss much.

Nobody cares about games you win in November, December, January, and most of February. The "BIG" regular season game in college basketball is almost dead. Sure in Syracuse when Duke comes the first time you will sell some insane number of tickets to game but that is rare and a one time deal. If SU lost that game last year, so what they were still going to the Tournament. For the big schools the outcomes of what used to be big games in Nov, Dec, Jan and most of February while nice don't carry the same weight. You can be like a Gonzaga or Witchita St and roll through the regular season then lose the 1st weekend of the tournament and your gonna say your season was good? HELL NO! You were a #1 seed and got ousted the first weekend. That season was a failure. Nobody cares about some "big" game you won in mid-January at that point. In college basketball you get judged off of March and nothing else. Nobody cares about the first 4 months of the season.

if you take the attitude that March is all that counts, that will be you point of view. I don't. And the 20-30,000 fans that show up at the Dome and the millions that watch all those college basketball game son ESPN don't either. It has always been silly to base your happiness or interest entirely on what happens in a single-elimination playoff at the end of the season.

Does anybody really want college basketball to determine it's champion the way college football does? :noidea::crazy: