King Otto's breakdown of the roster when Greg Robinson left and when Doug Marrone left | Syracusefan.com

King Otto's breakdown of the roster when Greg Robinson left and when Doug Marrone left

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While KOIII doesn't post on here anymore I thought I would bring this through breakdown of the rosters when both of the two previous coaches left and let his good perspective shine on this board and plus I would plug his excellent twitter feed for great SU football opinions.


  1. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    Who left a better roster behind Marrone or GRob? My breakdown:
  2. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    QB Marrone: Hunt So, Loeb Sr, Wilson Fr GRob: Nassib So, Dantley Sr Advantage: GRob. This is a little TBD as we haven't seen Hunt yet
  3. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    RB Marrone: Smith Jr, PTG Sr, Morris II Rf, McFarlane Rf, Rene Sr GRob: DC3 Jr, Bailey So, Collier Rf Adv: GRob. Top guys better, less depth
  4. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    FB/TE Marrone: Cleveland Sr, AAM Jr, Burke Jr, Wales Sr, Parris Rf, Moore Fr, Batton Fr, Provo Fr, Green So
  5. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    GRob: Nieves Sr, Owen Sr, Provo Jr, Cutler Rf, ARob Sr, Catalina So Adv: Marrone. More depth
  6. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    WR Marrone: West Jr, Broyld So, Flemming Sr, Kobena Jr, Clark Sr, Funderburke Jr, Hale So, Cornelius Rf, Lewis Rf, Kinder Jr
  7. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    GRob: Williams Jr, Davis Sr, Lobdell Sr, Sales So, Chew So, Jones So, Lemon Fr Adv: GRob. Both have lots young talent. Mike W unmatched.
  8. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    OL Marrone: Mackey Sr, Hickey Jr, Trudo So, Foy So, Robinson So, Palmer Rf, Knapp Rf, Emerich Rf, Anyaebunam Sr, Burton Fr, Miller So
  9. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    Correction on TE Batten & Moore not Marrone guys
  10. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    GRob: McKenzie Sr, Bart Jr, Baumbach Sr, Rosner Sr, White Jr, Speller So, Meldrum Jr, Allport So, Phillips Fr, Pugh Fr, Lowery So, Lepak So
  11. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    Adv: Marrone but closer than expected. Depth biggest diff.
  12. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    Overall the O is pretty similar. We don't have a Mike Williams or a DC3 but we didn't have a Hickey back then. Marrone did leave more depth.
  13. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    Have to say that O talent is a push though. Marrone didn't leave it better than when he got it.
  14. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    DT DM: Bromley Sr, Crume Jr, Jones Sr, Raymon So, Sloan So, Coleman Rf GRob: Art Sr, Lewis Jr, Perkins Jr, Tribbey Jr, Haney Jr, Boatman So
  15. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    Adv: GRob. Marrone better size but Art Jones is Art Jones.

  16. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    DE DM: Welsh Jr, Micah Jr, Thompson Rf, Johnson Fr, Trejo Jr, Manley Rf, Simmons So GRob: Jones So, Marinovich So, Kimmel Sr, Battles Jr
  17. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    Adv: Push. More depth Marrone. Don't know how Sugar Bear or Zeke will turn out. Could end up like Chandler.
  18. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    GRob: Smith Jr, Hogue Jr, Vaughan So, Gillum Jr, Stenclik Sr, Kimmel So Adv: Marrone. Too much depth difference even though..
  19. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    LB DM: Spruill Sr, Davis jr, Lynch Jr, Luke Jr, Kirkland Jr, Vigille So, Hodge Fr, Coker Sr, Washington Rf
  20. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    Smith & Hogue waaay better starters than what Marrone left.
  21. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    Also back to FB/TE make that a push as I forgot Stevens for GRob.
  22. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    CB Marrone: Lyn Sr, Anderson Sr, Reddish Jr, Whigham So, George So GRob: Merk Jr, Kev Jr, Nico Sr, Mayes So
  23. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    Adv: Marrone a lot better and depth to boot.
  24. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    S DM: Wilkes Sr, Esk So, Morgan So, Desir Jr, Kelly Jr GRob: Holmes Jr, Suter Jr, McKinnon Jr Adv: Marrone. Depth again.
  25. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    WR forgot Graham for GRob
  26. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    Front 7 is pretty much a push. GRob starters are better but Marrone has a lot more depth. However the DBs are a lot better and deeper
  27. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    It is funny that this is the best DB unit we have had in years yet they are struggling so bad. Gotta blame coaches there.
  28. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    K/P Marrone: Krautman SR, Norton So, Fisher Jr, Dixon So GRob: Long Jr Adv: Marrone. We have a mess currently but at least we have bodies.
  29. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    No doubt the program is in better shape than when Marrone took over. He stabilized the program & changed the culture/perception
  30. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    He also added a lot of quality depth. But in terms of starting talent we are worse in many areas.
  31. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    We lack playmakers like DC3, Mike Williams, Darrell Smith, Hogue, Mike Holmes.
  32. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    Overall only area of improvement is at DB. Every other unit is on par. I give Marrone credit for what he did but not what he thinks he did.
  33. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    He acts like he rebuilt the program & left it in good shape. We should all be grateful & bow to him. Reality is he stabilized the program...
  34. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    But still left lot work to be done. Also left in major year of transition: lost talent & ACC change. Timing couldnt have been worse.
  35. King Otto ‏@KingOttosWorld 9 Sep
    Lots of holes in roster. Lack playmakers. Took all of the staff. He didnt finish the job & left Shafer in tough spot.
 
And KOIII's opinion matters why? He proved over and over again that he had a very low football acumen.
 
And KOIII's opinion matters why? He proved over and over again that he had a very low football acumen.
Nobody's opinions matter more than anyone's else. I just like to hear all perspectives if you don't care about these opinions I would recommend you don't waste your time reading them. On the football acumen statement I will just say I agree to disagree with your opinion and that is all.
 
Nobody's opinions matter more than anyone's else. I just like to hear all perspectives if you don't care about these opinions I would recommend you don't waste your time reading them. On the football acumen statement I will just say I agree to disagree with your opinion and that is all.
That statement is actually part of a quote that the all-knowing KOIII made regarding bees.
 
That statement is actually part of a quote that the all-knowing KOIII made regarding bees.
I like your posts so I don't want any bad blood so just ignore opinions you disagree with or don't let them bother you. KOIII has his opinions and you have yours he didn't bring this thread on here I did because I respect his opinions.
 
My only point would be that it would probably more fair to make the comparison after Marrone's guys get through the program.
 
Everyone's got an opinion, and I'd probably disagree with some of KO's opinions.

Not sure how QB is advantage GRob. Dantley was not good and Nassib was a soph not ready to play. Marrone left a soph who may or may not be ready to play. Both new coaches felt like they had to get 1-year kids. At best that seems like a push.

On RBs, I loved Delone Carter but I'm not convinced that Smith can't be as productive if the OL does its job. He certainly did last year. Again, I'd say push at worst, but probably advantage Marrone because it sure seems like there is more talented depth.

Ultimately this is an impossible exercise to undertake for another 3-4 years. We know what GRob's guys did for Marrone, and we have no idea what Marrone's guys will do for Shafer. Maybe GRob's guys would have been lousy if not for Marrone coaching them? Maybe Marrone's guys will turn out poorly because of the MAC-tacular Shafer coaching staff? Who knows really?

I will say that GRob did not leave the cupboard bare at least in terms of the top 1/3 of the roster, and that's how Marrone got to 8 wins and a bowl in year #2. Marrone did not leave the cupboard bare for Shafer, and probably deeper than just the top 1/3, so will be interesting to see where he's at in year #2.
 
My take is Marrone was left in a worse position. I'd even say I'd rather have Hunt over Nassib's 1st year though I have limited knowledge of Hunt so taken with a grain of salt. Marrone was left with a team in which he had to clean house, get the remaining guys in shape, teach them football, and break them of all the bad habits they learned under GRob. In addition, Marrone had to go repair all the broken recruiting ties GRob left in his wake.
 
I thought it was funny because it was so absurd. Everyone has their own opinions and whatnot so I think it's interesting to hear different viewpoints (hence why I've never blocked Igor).

Also I miss the KO3's Tale of the Tape posts. That and Rahmes pregame analysis articles were must reads every week.
 
not really a fair comparison though... who'd have thought nassib would be nassib 4 years ago. best time to look is 4 years out
 
not really a fair comparison though... who'd have thought nassib would be nassib 4 years ago. best time to look is 4 years out

Good point -- though maybe 2 years would be enough. Some of Marrone's more recent recruits (Knapp, Morris, and several others) could continue to develop, but we don't know that by game 2 in season one.

And some of this is difficult to judge. Marrone had to fill in, during his first two years, with a few of his own recruits (started EJ Carter at LB as a true frosh, playing the Thomas kids and Spruill in year 2), and a few of his jucos/Hofstra transfers (Tiller, Hay, Cruz, Weaver plus a couple on the DL). By year 2, Shafer might be filling holes with his own collection of jucos or true frosh.
 
Format is very confusing to read. Basically he's saying that Marrone produced more depth but G-Rob had more star-quality players. But he admits the story is not complete on the current guys. How do we know how many of them will turn out to be star-quality players? We're look at the entire careers of the other guys. And do we really credit guys like Smith and Hogue to G-Rob? Their development came under Marrone. G-Rob had them playing offense.

A more balanced analysis could be done four years from now.
 
Hard argument to make that a coach who left with I think two wins left a better program than a coach who left with eight wins.
 
Hard argument to make that a coach who left with I think two wins left a better program than a coach who left with eight wins.
I think the argument is which left more talent for the new coaching staff. Don't twist this into coaching ability at all. As Mack Brown at Texas has 5 star talent galore on his roster but if he can't coach them its worthless. If you gave Doug Marrone a team with Texas talent for 4 years there is no doubt in my mind he would coach them to a NC title game while Greg Robinson I don't think he could coach the same talent as well. Don't read into more than which coaching staff left more for the next coaching staff.
 
Format is very confusing to read. Basically he's saying that Marrone produced more depth but G-Rob had more star-quality players. But he admits the story is not complete on the current guys. How do we know how many of them will turn out to be star-quality players? We're look at the entire careers of the other guys. And do we really credit guys like Smith and Hogue to G-Rob? Their development came under Marrone. G-Rob had them playing offense.

A more balanced analysis could be done four years from now.
Yes it is confusing, but seems pretty clear that G-Rob did have a few more 4 star quality skill players (mainly due to Williams, as Carter and Smith are pretty close), and Hogue, Smith, and the Jones brothers, might be a step better than what Shafer now has.
Only partly true on Smith & Hogue. Smith played one season at LB under GROB. Didn't take a genius to switch Hogue to defense, but have to acknowledge that the young man came to SU because he was offered a fair opportunity to play RB. So, he got that chance, then was willing to make the switch. Would Marrone have forced the switch earlier -- you would be guessing.
 
I think the argument is which left more talent for the new coaching staff. Don't twist this into coaching ability at all. As Mack Brown at Texas has 5 star talent galore on his roster but if he can't coach them its worthless. If you gave Doug Marrone a team with Texas talent for 4 years there is no doubt in my mind he would coach them to a NC title game while Greg Robinson I don't think he could coach the same talent as well. Don't read into more than which coaching staff left more for the next coaching staff.





I was not referring to coaching ability.

I was referring to all aspects of the program including the talent level of the players.
 
King Otto has been absolutely going off non stop with negative tweet after negative tweet literally since the Northwestern game is over. I wouldn't be shocked if I estimated over 500 tweets, all on the extreme negative side. I finally had to unfollow him
 
I was not referring to coaching ability.

I was referring to all aspects of the program including the talent level of the players.

So was the guy in the quoted in the original post. Big picture, overall state of the program, which is addressed, is light years ahead of where it was, which was the first order of business.

Getting top end talent has lagged to an extent, but the quality of the roster top to bottom is without a doubt much better, there's no arguing that.

From Marrone's first team if they were on the roster today in the class and experience they were at that point Bart, Carter, and Williams would certaintly start on offense, and AJones, CJones, Hogue, Smith and Holmes on defense. Suter, Marinovich, Provo, Sales and McKenzie would probably make the two deep. But that would be about it. That's 13 out of 44 spots for the Greg Robinson all star team. Hell, Art was a Pasqualoni recruit.

Lemon and Pugh would be redshirting instead of being an opening day starter and named 2nd unit guard. Sharpe and Ball get to redshirt instead of being in the rotation day one. Same with Phil Thomas, EJ Carter, Rishard. Shamarko might have made to rotation, but it wouldn't be by default.
 
I am sorry but King Otto has made a lot of statements over the years and most were way off base, if you throw enough against the wall, some times it will stick. We get it we have stunk the last two games, The GROB versus Marrone is a bit insane but whatever, just let it go.

If I dig deep enough I will find a post where, the great King Otto stated last year prior to the season that Jerome Smith was not a lead runner and wasn't any good, again just another BOLD statement that was well wrong. He's a talking head with a few followers, maybe 8-9! Just because it's written doesn't make it even worth reading. I quit reading his stuff a couple years ago. Dude, thinks he is much more in tune with the game/program than he actually is. Hey more power to him, but I don't care for his posts never have and had not noticed he wasn't around.

The fact is, if the program makes you that angry, go elsewhere, Syracuse football owes you absolutely nothing. NOTHING. I bitch and moan but I think his incessant tweeting etc is going off the deep end.

Top to bottom, I think this program is light years ahead of where it was 4 years ago. Talent can be debated I get that, Marrone wasn't a great recruiter but a foundation was built to bring the program back to respectability and that was accomplished. Talent wise 1-85 no comparison. Shafer needs to recruit better, get the staff together and continue to build on what Doug left. I think he can do it, I really do and I think the community will love the guy when we wins, the issue is he needs to continue to tweak staff for a year or two. Why was the d game plan so poor last Saturday? That was one of the worst halves of defensive football I have ever seen. Is he better off being the HC/DC when he gets his feet underneath him and then going out and hiring a seasoned OC because they are out there. Time will tell, far too early to tell but there is 6-7 wins in this team this year, up to the coaches to get it out of them. WE just got waxed by a program that rates 70-80 every year in recruiting. The continuity is what helps them the same continuity we were beginning to see with Marrone before he left.
 
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