Kiyan

[2B20Again]

Hahaha. Yes. The local Rucker in the 80’s and 90’s was Barry Park. And another underrated spot was our very own JD middle school with the chain nets. Even the Pearl would come to play there.

Ah! Chain nets they were the best. The sound was amazing as a jumper splashed through.

 

[HyattsCuse]

And yet Melo didn't say one word about foul shooting. KA shot 52% from the free throw line and yet before games, he didn't shoot any free throws. What I worry about with him is that he will work on the things he already does well.

Look 10 posts up from yours. 0307 posted a video. Kiyan is doing a drill where he runs up and down the court, then has to take a free throw. He’s working on them.

 

[kingtidge]

Kiyan is not the first freshman that’s struggled. I feel like he’s under the microscope even more than others because who his father is.

This is true.

McNamara was a stellar frosh and had his Siena players playing at high levels of effort consistently, so I expect he'll get him sorted.

Under Red, we saw glorified AAU ball... These guys were allowed to focus on O, hunt their own shot, and slack on D. There was no accountability. There should be accountability under GMAC.

 

[dasher]

I’m also worried that Kiyan will become the focal point of any game where he has to either have the ball or the ball/play needs to go through him.

I saw this when he played at the Peach Jam games two summers ago. The team had another point guard but Anthony had to handle the ball.

Kind of reminded me when Syracuse would look for Buddy on a large number of their plays. Guess this happens when your dad controls the purse strings for the team.

If this is the case, then kiss the team and the season away.

That IO wouldn't worry about. Gerry will control this team.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Dion Waiters as a freshman in BE play 2010-11

31%/26%/78% 4.9 ppg 93 offensive rating 99 defensive rating. He was not in shape at all.

Kiyan as a freshman in ACC play.

33/28/70 5.6 ppg 96 offensive rating 121 defensive rating.

I am not saying Kiyan will be Dion, but that's just one example. Kris Joseph did nothing at all either...The transfer portal has made fans less patient.

 

[sufan59]

Dion Waiters as a freshman in BE play 2010-11

31%/26%/78% 4.9 ppg 93 offensive rating 99 defensive rating. He was not in shape at all.

Kiyan as a freshman in ACC play.

33/28/70 5.6 ppg 96 offensive rating 121 defensive rating.

I am not saying Kiyan will be Dion, but that's just one example. Kris Joseph did nothing at all either...The transfer portal has made fans less patient.

The way Red handled JJ returning from his injury is something I’ll never forget. Kiyan got off to an incredible start (I know the comp was not good), but efficiency is efficiency. But with Kiyan he has spurts that really showed how good he could be. That’s what has me excited with GMAC, I feel he has a natural ability to read his players, know what to say to them to bring the best out of them, and that will put him in position to maximize each players ability.

 

[JRHEETER]

Dion Waiters as a freshman in BE play 2010-11

31%/26%/78% 4.9 ppg 93 offensive rating 99 defensive rating. He was not in shape at all.

Kiyan as a freshman in ACC play.

33/28/70 5.6 ppg 96 offensive rating 121 defensive rating.

I am not saying Kiyan will be Dion, but that's just one example. Kris Joseph did nothing at all either...The transfer portal has made fans less patient.

Exactly, kid is a true freshman who was known as a development piece.

Quite frankly, I am shocked he saw as much court time as he did and from what I had heard pre-season about his skill levels, he looked pretty good really.

He is not Melo and is NEVER going to be Melo.

Stop expecting Melo from Kiyan.

 

[2B20Again]

Dion Waiters as a freshman in BE play 2010-11

31%/26%/78% 4.9 ppg 93 offensive rating 99 defensive rating. He was not in shape at all.

Kiyan as a freshman in ACC play.

33/28/70 5.6 ppg 96 offensive rating 121 defensive rating.

I am not saying Kiyan will be Dion, but that's just one example. Kris Joseph did nothing at all either...The transfer portal has made fans less patient.

Kiyan is a very skilled offensive freshman. As has been stated play very well against lesser talent. He also played a lot of minutes when JJ was out. JJ returned, Kiyans minutes dropped, talent level increased. What had worked wasn’t working. What did Tyson say about everyone had a plan, until you get punched in the mouth. It is my feeling that Kiyan struggled was searching, trying different things to get a feel. And as Apollo Creed said in Rocky. If you think you stink. Kiyan looked to mee like he was thinking, measuring each move. Not a recipe for success. He will wok his way out. His Dad smiiled his entire year here at Syracuse. Kiyan just needs a little of that joy.

 

[Orangezoo]

His biggest problem is he plays way too slow in every facet of his game. No urgency. His effort needs to double if not triple. Also it sounds easy but effort is a skill and not an easy thing to develop. He doesn't play hard enough and until he does his last name is going to be a problem because he has to play.

This is a little more nuanced. There is a difference between being slow vs being more patient and using skills and angles vs athleticism. On defense and rebounding his effort and sense of urgency absolutely needs work but with the ball in his hands he’s intentional not slow. So certainly there are truths in what you are saying but he’s not playing too slow across the the board. Also he’s proven when he’s locked in and shot ready his catch and release is fast.

 

[Orangezoo]

This is true.

McNamara was a stellar frosh and had his Siena players playing at high levels of effort consistently, so I expect he'll get him sorted.

Under Red, we saw glorified AAU ball... These guys were allowed to focus on O, hunt their own shot, and slack on D. There was no accountability. There should be accountability under GMAC.

On thing about the teams that are still playing and have for the last week is you aren’t seeing much AAU ball. There is a bit of that in what Oats and BH do albeit more organized but still chaotic but if you watch Arizona and Michigan who play fast it doesn’t look at all like chaos. Then you have Illinois and UConn along with Duke and others who are more like what you probably see from us under Gerry in terms of finding the right matchups and looks while being organized and intentional on defense along with various different looks and change in pace based on the game.

This is why Nait to me just wouldn’t fit. He pushes the ball off a miss or a make without intention and too often makes a risky or unnecessary pass with no consideration of floor balance or whether it’s putting the ball in the right players hands to initiate a break or advantage situation.

 

[IthacaMatt]

He is not Melo and is NEVER going to be Melo.

Stop expecting Melo from Kiyan.

I don't think most people here are expecting him to be great.
We just want him to play better.

As much as we appreciate how his game could develop, the fact is that he was not very good last year.

 

[bnoro]

Exactly, kid is a true freshman who was known as a development piece.

Quite frankly, I am shocked he saw as much court time as he did and from what I had heard pre-season about his skill levels, he looked pretty good really.

He is not Melo and is NEVER going to be Melo.

Stop expecting Melo from Kiyan.

No, but he should be able to go to the rim and not get swatted by a 6'6" guy from Hofstra because he telegraphed his drive and layup.

 

[sufan59]

One thing is clear the past few weeks on this board, Bnoro is back!

 

[Orangezoo]

One thing is clear the past few weeks on this board, Bnoro is back!

Hey tempering expectations is a far cry from ruining everything. Someone is losing their edge with age..

 

[Nicknack]

I think coaching and a clearly defined role can fix the ‘me ball’ stuff. I wouldn’t call him inherently selfish on the court. When you’re inexperienced and in a dysfunctional offense, it’s easier to focus on yourself and what you can do than it is to create for others or defer to others.

I agree. On a different team with a new coach and system, I think he will be better. Last year though just killed me watching him at times. He just slows everything down to a crawl when he gets the ball and if he doesn't shoot, he rarely did anything besides just passing it back out to the perimeter - meanwhile, 8-10 seconds would come off the clock. He has to learn how to do some things rather than just shoot and take time off the clock.

I have my gripes with Boeheim lately, but before the Buddy ball years, he was usually very good at making sure players knew their role. Certain guys were essentially not allowed to take certain shots (that's in part what led to Roberson's issues). No way would Boeheim have allowed three guys (JJ, George, and Kiyan) to heave up 3's like they did. Kiyan was 25.4% from deep but would try to replicate Steph Curry shots from the logo. JJ was 28.9% (nearly 3 attempts per game) and George at 29.3% (nearly 4 attempts per game). Hopefully GMac can help define the right role for guys, especially Kiyan so he doesn't work against what we're trying to do on offense.

 

[bnoro]

Hey tempering expectations is a far cry from ruining everything. Someone is losing their edge with age..

Don't question the Cult of Gerry & the Siena Saints!

 

[Orangezoo]

Don't question the Cult of Gerry & the Siena Saints!

That’s much better. The world feels a little more balanced today. Whew.

 

[NCo’range]

Kiyan is not the first freshman that’s struggled. I feel like he’s under the microscope even more than others because who his father is.

Who his father is definitely shines the spot
on young Kiyan. Does GMAC have the cojones to coach KA like any other player should be coached that needs work to get the most out of his talent especially with Melo looking over his shoulder, I think so and if KA shows great improvement off season no reason why he shouldn't be the guy.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

Dion Waiters as a freshman in BE play 2010-11

31%/26%/78% 4.9 ppg 93 offensive rating 99 defensive rating. He was not in shape at all.

Kiyan as a freshman in ACC play.

33/28/70 5.6 ppg 96 offensive rating 121 defensive rating.

I am not saying Kiyan will be Dion, but that's just one example. Kris Joseph did nothing at all either...The transfer portal has made fans less patient.

They were also on significantly better teams and waiting their turn. Both would have obviously started on this yr’s cuse. He’ll never be in the same realm as Dion. Would be happy if he even sniffed Kris Jo.

 

[SU91]

On thing about the teams that are still playing and have for the last week is you aren’t seeing much AAU ball. There is a bit of that in what Oats and BH do albeit more organized but still chaotic but if you watch Arizona and Michigan who play fast it doesn’t look at all like chaos. Then you have Illinois and UConn along with Duke and others who are more like what you probably see from us under Gerry in terms of finding the right matchups and looks while being organized and intentional on defense along with various different looks and change in pace based on the game.

This is why Nait to me just wouldn’t fit. He pushes the ball off a miss or a make without intention and too often makes a risky or unnecessary pass with no consideration of floor balance or whether it’s putting the ball in the right players hands to initiate a break or advantage situation.

Yes, George is terrible. If we have him back it’s because we couldn’t get anyone else.

 

[baggerbob]

Kiyan’s game is more advanced from a skill standpoint than DNic’s was as a frosh, imo. I know we’re comparing a guard and a forward, so it’s not apples to apples, but I’m not sure I agree that we saw tools in DNic that we don’t see in Kiyan. DNic was moderately more athletic, but athleticism was never what set his game apart. When he started reliably hitting threes, he became a key player; the same could be true for Kiyan (not that that’s all it would take).

I think coaching and a clearly defined role can fix the ‘me ball’ stuff. I wouldn’t call him inherently selfish on the court. When you’re inexperienced and in a dysfunctional offense, it’s easier to focus on yourself and what you can do than it is to create for others or defer to others.

And part of Kiyan's problem was JJ coming back and Getting 30 minutes a game he didn't deserve. Bringing JJ back pretty much cost Red his job.
JJ was a good person but at best a 12-15 minute bench player on a good team. Kiyan will get better the more he actually plays
Won't be his father , but can develope into a good player on a good team.

 

[baggerbob]

I don't think most people here are expecting him to be great.
We just want him to play better.

As much as we appreciate how his game could develop, the fact is that he was not very good last year.

And the Guy who was getting 30 minutes a game was not good. JJ obviously is going to be a great young man with a bright future in whatever field he ends up in. But the team last year never should have had him and George both playing 30 minutes a game. Red should have played them about 27 game and given Kiyan about 23 or 24. Maybe Red could
have gotten the 3 of them to play some defense.

 

[Oakland]

Agree 100% but in all honesty, if you wanna learn tough you should probably play 4 blocks off Rucker.
Whether or not you need a body a guard probably depends on who you are and what you've got to lose lol

Years ago, I took a little detour to visit Rucker park. A sunny afternoon, but unfortunately, no one was playing.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Who his father is definitely shines the spot
on young Kiyan. Does GMAC have the cojones to coach KA like any other player should be coached that needs work to get the most out of his talent especially with Melo looking over his shoulder, I think so and if KA shows great improvement off season no reason why he shouldn't be the guy.

He HAS to. He has no choice.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Early in the season, against the directional OOC cannon fodder teams,
Kiyan was able to “get his” on the regular.

But that was because the opposing talent level was, at best, equal to the HS talent he played against,
and many likely below that level.

So he thrived, and we (myself included) said he looked like Moten 2.0.

But then as soon as the talent and athleticism of our opponents increased to P4 level -
He was nearly useless.

And worse than useless on D.

Couldn’t score, couldn’t make his FT’s when he got bailed out by a foul,
and couldn’t defend his way out of a wet paper bag.

Kiyan is gonna hafta go back to the lab, and work on his strength, speed, weight, ball handling & security,
and spend a few hours daily shooting FT’s.

Drawing fouls like Judah Mintz is almost pointless,
if you shoot FT’s like Stevie Thompson.

What he has to work on is playing smart. His decision making .was awful.