Knowing the Facts and that leaving now would probably cost us very little vs. added income received

[Cuseman78]

UConn, ND, Louisville in basketball, really?

You really have interest in playing Louisville and ND in bball?

I would play an annual game with Uconn in the Garden and play Gtown. Why would we continue to play Louisville or ND, neither of which are bball rivals?

 

[arbitragegls]

My position which has been FREE 'CUSE NOW!!!! is based on perspective that since we are leaving; the BE is treating 'Cuse and Pitt as non-existent. We no longer share in $$$ being paid by those leaving or coming. We have no vote on conference decisions even though the BE wants to keep us there for 27 months...HOW ONE SIDED CAN THIS BE....there is not a successful business that would put up with this BS

 

[Cuseman78]

since when are BE teams not considered BCS AQ's?

2014ish

I agree with KOIII here. Leaving in 2012 vs 2013 doesn't burn any bridges that we should really care about. Do you think if we leave in 2012 as opposed to 2013 that Gtown or the Johnnies or Uconn won't be lining up to play us anyway in bball? What schools are you concerned about pissing off other than those schools?

And football wise, there are no teams remaining (Pitt is coming with us and WVU is off to the Big 12) that we would even care to play again. All of those schools need us more than we need them.

We are moving on (thankfully) and we need to do what's in the best interest of our school and if our admins feel that is 2012, I'm all for it. I don't worry about hurting Tim Pernetti's feelings or pissing off Rick Pitino.

 

[sutomcat]

Why would we play those schools? What do we have to gain by playing them OOC? We play 18 ACC games. We will play a game in MSG. We will play in a early season tourny. Then hopefully we will play GTown every year. There is no more room for playing a good program OOC. People need to get over it. We are going to the ACC.

There are a number of reasons for staying in the BE for 2013. You have fixated on one of them, a relatively small one at that. And not done a good job of it.

JB has already made it known he wants to keep playing Georgetown and St John's in basketball after SU leaves the BE. Even you appear to see value in doing this.

Haven't heard a formal response from either school on this. Based on JTIII's comments, continuing the series is not a home run. It would help SU's chances if they left on relatively good terms with the conference. The same applies to St Johns and perhaps UConn. We can't sell out MSG on our own. In order to get good crowds/reduce the money lost playing down there instead of playing in the Dome, we need someone with a presence in the NYC area. That means St John's, or possibly UConn, Seton Hall or Rutgers. Could well see our games in NYC often being part of a double header, again to help ensure good crowds and TV exposure. That requires more schools with a presence in the NYC area. Could we do this without any BE schools? Yes, probably. We could play Fordham or LIU or someone like that.

But it would be better to leverage the interest having former conference rivals meeting again, the long history we share, etc. These are the schools the networks want to see us play, and the schools our alums in NYC want to see us play.

This applies for football as well. Yes, we can play games in the Meadowlands. They may or may not draw big crowds, they may or may not work out long term. Regardless, we are forced to schedule major football powers in order to play in the NYC area, and I think the games will usually end up more like away games than home games in terms of attendance. These are not necessarily in the best interests of the SU football program.

Leaving the BE on good terms gives us scheduling options in the future we might not have if we leave like WVU is leaving. UConn refuses to play BC in football or basketball for instance. They might well decide to do the same thing with us if we leave in 2012. This might be meaningless to you but you don't know the future. Options and flexibility are good things.

The thing I find most confounding with the people who are insisting we must leave now is that I have yet to see a single compelling reason why we need to leave immediately.

Do we get a significantly better chance of playing in a BCS bowl (or playing in a bowl game period)? No, the opposite.

Do we get more money? No, the opposite.

Do we mitigate risk? No, the opposite.

 

[kingottoiii]

So you would rather play a 90% sure loss to a USC type in the Meadowlands every year vs. a 50/50 chance win over a Big East team? Also, since when are BE teams not considered BCS AQ's?

I'm in the pool that thinks scheduling a Top 10 team at a neutral site every year on top of a harder ACC schedule is a BAD idea. Let's see how long it lasts. Aren't we the ones getting used in that scenario?

Act as if.

If we want to act like a little Mickey Mouse program than we should not schedule those marquee games in Metlife. In that case lets play 9 ACC games, 1 BE team, and 1 MAC/Sunbelt team, and a 1AA game. Lets get to a Bowl and be happy.

Or

We can play 9 ACC games, 1 MAC/Sunbelt team, a 1AA, and one marquee game that will give us TV exposure and interest recruits. All with the goal of winning an ACC title.

I rather play the big time team than the loser BE team. BTW the BE will not have an auto bid, no way no how.

 

[Cuseman78]

There are a number of reasons for staying in the BE for 2013. You have fixated on one of them, a relatively small one at that. And not done a good job of it.

JB has already made it known he wants to keep playing Georgetown and St John's in basketball after SU leaves the BE. Even you appear to see value in doing this.

Haven't heard a formal response from either school on this. Based on JTIII's comments, continuing the series is not a home run. It would help SU's chances if they left on relatively good terms with the conference. The same applies to St Johns and perhaps UConn. We can't sell out MSG on our own. In order to get good crowds/reduce the money lost playing down there instead of playing in the Dome, we need someone with a presence in the NYC area. That means St John's, or possibly UConn, Seton Hall or Rutgers. Could well see our games in NYC often being part of a double header, again to help ensure good crowds and TV exposure. That requires more schools with a presence in the NYC area. Could we do this without any BE schools? Yes, probably. We could play Fordham or LIU or someone like that.

But it would be better to leverage the interest having former conference rivals meeting again, the long history we share, etc. These are the schools the networks want to see us play, and the schools our alums in NYC want to see us play.

This applies for football as well. Yes, we can play games in the Meadowlands. They may or may not draw big crowds, they may or may not work out long term. Regardless, we are forced to schedule major football powers in order to play in the NYC area, and I think the games will usually end up more like away games than home games in terms of attendance. These are not necessarily in the best interests of the SU football program.

Leaving the BE on good terms gives us scheduling options in the future we might not have if we leave like WVU is leaving. UConn refuses to play BC in football or basketball for instance. They might well decide to do the same thing with us if we leave in 2012. This might be meaningless to you but you don't know the future. Options and flexibility are good things.

The thing I find most confounding with the people who are insisting we must leave now is that I have yet to see a single compelling reason why we need to leave immediately.

Do we get a significantly better chance of playing in a BCS bowl (or playing in a bowl game period)? No, the opposite.

Do we get more money? No, the opposite.

Do we mitigate risk? No, the opposite.

You can't honestly think that Gtown or the Johnnies would forego playing us because we left in 2012 as opposed to 2013. This board doesn't seem to understand the power of leverage or the upper-hand. Georgetown or the Johnnies are in no position to give up the rivalries especially considering the fact that they will be loading up on patsies in their new league. Those schools need us much more than we need them.

Regarding Uconn, how did their petulant behavior work the last time the ACC expanded? If they have any plans on being 15 or 16, they certainly better plan on taking a different route this time around.

 

[kingottoiii]

The thing I find most confounding with the people who are insisting we must leave now is that I have yet to see a single compelling reason why we need to leave immediately.

I am not insisting that we leave now. All I am saying is that the "burning bridges" argument, isn't much of an argument at all. There are reasons not to go for 2012. That is not one of them.

 

[Chip]

You can't honestly think that Gtown or the Johnnies would forego playing us because we left in 2012 as opposed to 2013. This board doesn't seem to understand the power of leverage or the upper-hand. Georgetown or the Johnnies are in no position to give up the rivalries especially considering the fact that they will be loading up on patsies in their new league. Those schools need us much more than we need them.

Regarding Uconn, how did their petulant behavior work the last time the ACC expanded? If they have any plans on being 15 or 16, they certainly better plan on taking a different route this time around.

Yeah, personally I think all this talk about burning a bridge is misguided. We're leaving. The most important part of the bridge is being burned anyway. SU is in the position of strength here, and really only needs to worry about SU. We've done enough for the Big East, we owe it nothing.

As for scheduling non conference games against any of these teams in any sport, if we want to do it, we will. It's in their benefit to play us. If they don't want to, ok, we schedule someone else. We're going to have 9 conf football games and 18 conf hoops games. Keeping some relationship door open to a handful of teams for potential non conference games should be about the last thing on our priority list. And this is a long term move for us, those staying in the Big East will get over it.

Having said all of that, I don't see any scenario where we're leaving in 2012 anyway. The only things we should be thinking about if 2012 is on the table, is 1) does the ACC really want to do this right now? 2) Will it ultimately be cost effective? 3) see 1 and 2.

 

[kingottoiii]

You can't honestly think that Gtown or the Johnnies would forego playing us because we left in 2012 as opposed to 2013. This board doesn't seem to understand the power of leverage or the upper-hand. Georgetown or the Johnnies are in no position to give up the rivalries especially considering the fact that they will be loading up on patsies in their new league. Those schools need us much more than we need them.

Regarding Uconn, how did their petulant behavior work the last time the ACC expanded? If they have any plans on being 15 or 16, they certainly better plan on taking a different route this time around.

We actually don't even have to play those schools at all. We can play schools like Mich St, Indiana, Kentucky, etc at MSG. We don't have to play St Johns. In fact there likely would be more people in the stands for a November MSG game if St Johns isn't the team we play. Also we can always do a double header with Duke or UNC. We don't need to fill the place by ourselves.

Also can someone explain to me how leaving in 2012 instead of 2013 burns a bridge with the BBall schools? The FB schools makes sense because they are left with a huge scheduling problem. But how does leaving in 2012 any different than 2013 for a school like GTown? How does that hurt them?

 

[Cuseman78]

We actually don't even have to play those schools at all. We can play schools like Mich St, Indiana, Kentucky, etc at MSG. We don't have to play St Johns. In fact there likely would be more people in the stands for a November MSG game if St Johns isn't the team we play. Also we can always do a double header with Duke or UNC. We don't need to fill the place by ourselves.

Also can someone explain to me how leaving in 2012 instead of 2013 burns a bridge with the BBall schools? The FB schools makes sense because they are left with a huge scheduling problem. But how does leaving in 2012 any different than 2013 for a school like GTown? How does that hurt them?

Agree regarding games at the Garden. Personally, I would love to see an annual Uconn game at the Garden but if that can't get done, does anybody think that we aren't going to be playing at least an annual game in the Garden (besides the early season tourneys)? We are talking about Daryl Gross here who probably has a 2nd office in Penn Plaza.

Our NYC metro fans don't necessarily care so much about the opponent (i.e St Johns), they care about getting to see games in their backyard. I don't think many of our fans (with a few exceptions for older, nostalgic fans) will care if we ever play St Johns again.

 

[sutomcat]

You can't honestly think that Gtown or the Johnnies would forego playing us because we left in 2012 as opposed to 2013. This board doesn't seem to understand the power of leverage or the upper-hand. Georgetown or the Johnnies are in no position to give up the rivalries especially considering the fact that they will be loading up on patsies in their new league. Those schools need us much more than we need them.

Regarding Uconn, how did their petulant behavior work the last time the ACC expanded? If they have any plans on being 15 or 16, they certainly better plan on taking a different route this time around.

I am not sure they are going to be willing to keep playing us even assuming we do everything in our power to make a graceful exit from the conference (that means stay another year).

To my knowledge, they have said nothing on the topic to date, other than JTIII's unenthusiatic response to a question from the media.

Syracuse is the party that has been trying to make this happen, not the other way.

Pitt and SU leaving the BE after this year presents huge issues for the BE. It could, IMHO destablize things so badly that the football league could collapse completely. I think anything that affects the BE right now, while it is on life support, is of major interest to the members of the conference.

All that being said, I think in the end we do end up continuing to play both. You are right, they need us, just as we need them. Again, there are a number of reasons to stay in the BE for 2013. This is a relatively small one.

I haven't seen any good reasons why we should leave early.

 

[SUtyger]

I believe it will cost only $5 million for Boise to leave, how is WV's buyout less? It would be nice of the BE to use that $20 million to pay for Boise and SD St to come in 2012. It will allow a nice 4 H, 4 A BE schedule. The BE teams all need two games anyway. Let the MWC worry about a 7 game conf schedule.

I heard the payoff to get Boise State to the Big East this year was $21 mil.

I will see if I can find the article again.

EDIT: I couldn't find the article but did find some that stated $5 mil and others that stated between 7.5 and 9 million.

 

[JJReddawg]

I heard the payoff to get Boise State to the Big East this year was $21 mil.

I will see if I can find the article again.

EDIT: I couldn't find the article but did find some that stated $5 mil and others that stated between 7.5 and 9 million.

I believe the $21 million was if Boise went to a BCS bowl. The wouldn't get their part of the payout or something like that.

 

[JJReddawg]

Here is the article quoting the $21 million:

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/10/21/1847638/exit-fee-could-reach-21m.html