Kris and Scoop, etc

[iommi]

same old same old. Kris still isn't tough and cannot dribble, especially in traffic. Scoop is still the same player with zero hoops IQ. The team's offense is still stagnant...guys standing around waiting for something to happen before jacking up an ill-advised shot. All that and no Rick to bail us out of trouble. I guess you could say I'm not impressed at all.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Why would we assume Scoop and KJ would be markedly better this year? These guys have played a TON of basketball. They are who they are.. pretty good players who have flaws and are not elite 8 quality talents.

 

[TinyManInside]

We have a great collection of support players, but no game-changer.

 

[Ghost]

We have a great collection of support players, but no game-changer.

Yup, this is still the big concern. Other than a nice stretch where we showed we can press a D2 team full of sub 6'0" guards into making a ton of mistakes nobody has really shown they can break a game open or at least control it.

It will probably be a lot like last year, Dion will have a few games where he looks like that guy, Triche will do likewise, KJo will have a couple, and Scoop will bail us out from time to time while driving everyone crazy the rest of the time. Certainly good enough to win A LOT of games, but hard to predict where we finish up at the end.

 

[orangefan13]

College Basketball isn't all about game changers its about efficiency and consistancy. Insert>>> especially in march <<<here

Wes, Rautins and AO weren't quite game changers a few years back. But they played tough Defense, Stole the ball better to create more transition/possessions, and our PPG was much better then last years (which means they hit the big shots atlesat sometimes).

Being extra multidimential during march is the best thing to have to exploit more momentum and frutstrate the opposition. And we have the depth to do that this year. St Rose was clearly frustrated by our press tonight.

This team is much different then last years team. Last year...

1.Last year, Fair depended on Rick. When Rick had a bad game Fair did to. This year Fair is attacking more with low post threats nobody knows what to expect there.

2.This year we have Fab a 7'0 whos more mobile and more in the low post already then Rick last year. We haven't even began running sets in the paint. We haven't seen how our guards/Forwards like CJ/Dion/Kris/MCW will be able to play off fabs mobilty pick and roll basketbal. How the addition of Fab and Raks low post play will effect our guard and forward slashers.

3. We haven't played zone defense to see how it will trap and rotate. If we trap and rotate that well in the press I would like to see us try it more in the zone. If we trap and get out in transition and cause turnovers then we will get more possessions and see more transition basketball. Most of it starts with having a guard who can really pressure the ball.

4. Cooney, MCW and the three ball already appear more consistant then KJO Triche early on. Fair is looking pretty good to. That bids well for us if we get one of them on the floor with KJO or Triche. I wouldn't be surprised if Fairs shooting replaces Southerland this year, but Southerland will get token minutes for next year I think.

5. Scoop tore up CalST. LA. But hes beaten the average guard before and played bad against the good one before.

6. Last years team had a tough time on the perimeter. and a tough time driving with Rick in the high post and no low post threat. KJO didn't only have a missing midrange jumper he also had no low post guy to dish to.

7. Last years team lacked efficiency.

8. Remember the last time Scoop and KJO played 6th man? Im not so sure it would be a bad thing seeing them do more of that this year and just rolling it out there with our young talent. Dion, Fab, MCW, Rak, and CJ starting. First time maybe ever I wish we played more good early teams early on to help try new things.

Its Way, Way, Way to early to tell.

 

[cuseincincy]

Way too early but...if you add Triche to your statement I agree. No improvement from our 3 veterans. But as JB has said about others, we'll go as far as those 3 take us. I'm a fan. I like all 3 of them. But they are each limited in their own way. Something tells me we won't see starters getting 35 minutes per game this season.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Kris trying to dribble through his legs that one play when he was double-teamed...oy.

 

[cortacuse]

College Basketball isn't all about game changers its about efficiency and consistancy. Insert>>> especially in march <<<here

Wes, Rautins and AO weren't quite game changers a few years back. But they played tough Defense, Stole the ball better to create more transition/possessions, and our PPG was much better then last years (which means they hit the big shots atlesat sometimes).

Being extra multidimential during march is the best thing to have to exploit more momentum and frutstrate the opposition. And we have the depth to do that this year. St Rose was clearly frustrated by our press tonight.

This team is much different then last years team. Last year...

1.Last year, Fair depended on Rick. When Rick had a bad game Fair did to. This year Fair is attacking more with low post threats nobody knows what to expect there.

2.This year we have Fab a 7'0 whos more mobile and more in the low post already then Rick last year. We haven't even began running sets in the paint. We haven't seen how our guards/Forwards like CJ/Dion/Kris/MCW will be able to play off fabs mobilty pick and roll basketbal. How the addition of Fab and Raks low post play will effect our guard and forward slashers.

3. We haven't played zone defense to see how it will trap and rotate. If we trap and rotate that well in the press I would like to see us try it more in the zone. If we trap and get out in transition and cause turnovers then we will get more possessions and see more transition basketball. Most of it starts with having a guard who can really pressure the ball.

4. Cooney, MCW and the three ball already appear more consistant then KJO Triche early on. Fair is looking pretty good to. That bids well for us if we get one of them on the floor with KJO or Triche. I wouldn't be surprised if Fairs shooting replaces Southerland this year, but Southerland will get token minutes for next year I think.

5. Scoop tore up CalST. LA. But hes beaten the average guard before and played bad against the good one before.

6. Last years team had a tough time on the perimeter. and a tough time driving with Rick in the high post and no low post threat. KJO didn't only have a missing midrange jumper he also had no low post guy to dish to.

7. Last years team lacked efficiency.

8. Remember the last time Scoop and KJO played 6th man? Im not so sure it would be a bad thing seeing them do more of that this year and just rolling it out there with our young talent. Dion, Fab, MCW, Rak, and CJ starting. First time maybe ever I wish we played more good early teams early on to help try new things.

Its Way, Way, Way to early to tell.

Wes and Andy werent game changers?..... not sure we watched the same team two years ago...

 

[shandeezy7]

Wes and Andy werent game changers?..... not sure we watched the same team two years ago...

I think game-changers might not be the best word, but they weren't all-around complete players. Andy was primarily a shooter on offense and played good D at the top of the zone. Wes was an athletic freak who had a relatively consistent jumper, but couldn't put the ball on the ground to save his life and really lacked aggresiveness. We did a lot that year with players who had limited (albeit exceptional) abilities.

 

[cuseincincy]

Wes and Andy werent game changers?..... not sure we watched the same team two years ago...

Well, Wes wasn't the player of the year. He was only a first team AA and only top 5 NBA draft pick so...oops never mind! I will say imo the only players on the current roster that will ever spend time on an NBA roster are sophmores or freshmen.

 

[Knicks411]

Yeah I wouldn't describe Andy as a game changer. Wes was closer, being a first team AA.

To me, a game changer is a guy who can impact the game on both ends, and someone who can score a bucket when everyone knows he's getting the ball.

 

[cortacuse]

well go to guy and game changer are different... guess im nit picking.

 

[AZOrange]

same old same old. Kris still isn't tough and cannot dribble, especially in traffic. Scoop is still the same player with zero hoops IQ. The team's offense is still stagnant...guys standing around waiting for something to happen before jacking up an ill-advised shot. All that and no Rick to bail us out of trouble. I guess you could say I'm not impressed at all.

I actually thought Kris looked pretty good last night at both ends. He was really agressive on defense. And he made only one "bad" play on offense (the crossover in traffic) that I can remember.

And while Scoop wasnt great defensively, I really only remember the terrible alley oop as a bad play from him.

 

[iommi]

I actually thought Kris looked pretty good last night at both ends. He was really agressive on defense. And he made only one "bad" play on offense (the crossover in traffic) that I can remember.

And while Scoop wasnt great defensively, I really only remember the terrible alley oop as a bad play from him.

Well, keep in mind, my post was made at halftime.

 

[OttoMets]

I actually thought Kris looked pretty good last night at both ends. He was really agressive on defense. And he made only one "bad" play on offense (the crossover in traffic) that I can remember.

And while Scoop wasnt great defensively, I really only remember the terrible alley oop as a bad play from him.

I was more disappointed in his three missed lay-ups and 0-2 from the line. It's probably worth watching the replay to see what went wrong, but a missed alley-oop doesn't bother me as much as the other stuff. Watching it live, the pass didn't look any worse than the successful one to Triche a minute earlier. Boeheim was livid, though, so maybe it was worse than I realized.

Scoop's defense was active, though. He's the one who sparked that renewed intensity before the bad pass. He looks lighter and quicker right now.

 

[SkanSU]

Wouldn't it be interesting if JB did a Guard platoon ... start with BT and Scoop and then be able to platoon Dion and MCW? But what do I know ... I couldn't even watch the game last night :noidea:

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

I look at guys like Andy, Wes, KJo, Triche kind of like how I view DeSean Jackson of my beloved Philadelphia Eagles. When they have room to operate and the fast break is rolling...they are AWESOME. When you hit them in the mouth a couple times and make them play a grind it out, half court game...they look very timid and don't necessarily seem to want the ball.

Look at the end of the Butler game..or watch the end of the Marquette game last year. The only guy who showed any toughness or heart in either game was Dion against Marquette. Everyone else looked like they checked out in crunch time.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I look at guys like Andy, Wes, KJo, Triche kind of like how I view DeSean Jackson of my beloved Philadelphia Eagles. When they have room to operate and the fast break is rolling...they are AWESOME. When you hit them in the mouth a couple times and make them play a grind it out, half court game...they look very timid and don't necessarily seem to want the ball.

Look at the end of the Butler game..or watch the end of the Marquette game last year. The only guy who showed any toughness or heart in either game was Dion against Marquette. Everyone else looked like they checked out in crunch time.

There is some truth to this. Throw in Scoop too. He did NOT look good dribbling the ball last night, imo. He's still looking gassed after a couple of minutes of play, too. The jury is still out on whether these guys can handle good teams who will get in their faces with tough M2M defense. I'm looking for Triche to really step up here. Waiters can handle that kind of defense. Scoop not so sure. MCW could be a wild card off the bench. I think he is a better ball handler than people think.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

JB has always preferred to recruit "pretty" finesse players...rather than guys who were going to do the dirty work. Perhaps that why we all loved Kristoff so much. He was so unlike the typical Syracuse player. Even our guys through the years who appeared tough (AO, Rick) were really quite soft when push came to shove. We have always had trouble against physical teams. It is no coincidence why we can never seem to beat Louiville or Pitt even when we have loads more talent.

 

[Henny & Coke]

JB has always preferred to recruit "pretty" finesse players...rather than guys who were going to do the dirty work. Perhaps that why we all loved Kristoff so much. He was so unlike the typical Syracuse player. Even our guys through the years who appeared tough (AO, Rick) were really quite soft when push came to shove. We have always had trouble against physical teams. It is no coincidence why we can never seem to beat Louiville or Pitt even when we have loads more talent.

That is why I can't wait for DaJuan Coleman to get to SU...his game down low, doing all the dirty work and banging around for positioning and rebounds, will really give this team an element they lack a bit, IMO.

Although Fab does seem to be picking up the effort in this department so far...going up strong to the hoop and getting fouls, holding his positioning and getting charges.

Nothing better than watching a guy go up and get the bucket through contact.

 

[AZOrange]

JB has always preferred to recruit "pretty" finesse players...rather than guys who were going to do the dirty work. Perhaps that why we all loved Kristoff so much. He was so unlike the typical Syracuse player. Even our guys through the years who appeared tough (AO, Rick) were really quite soft when push came to shove. We have always had trouble against physical teams. It is no coincidence why we can never seem to beat Louiville or Pitt even when we have loads more talent.

Rick and AO were soft? How about DC? How about Warrick? Forth? And I guess Melo is on that list too? I dont remember Josh Pace being pretty or finesse. Nor Paul Harris. And Wes Johnson was like a 16-10 guy for us.

 

[OttoMets]

Although Fab does seem to be picking up the effort in this department so far...going up strong to the hoop and getting fouls, holding his positioning and getting charges.

That is certainly a diplomatic way of putting it.

Fab was pretty floptastic at times last year, and last night's charge was...well, suspect at best.

 

[OttoMets]

Rick and AO were soft? How about DC? How about Warrick? Forth? And I guess Melo is on that list too? I dont remember Josh Pace being pretty or finesse. Nor Paul Harris. And Wes Johnson was like a 16-10 guy for us.

Meh, Arinze consistently came up small against the most physical teams and teams with well-regarded bigs. He was a complete non-entity against Blair, Thabeet, and anyone Louisville threw at him - those were some of the worst games of his career. It was a running puzzle during 2008-2009 how he could play so consistently for the bulk of the games but be absolutely invisible against those guys. And he and Rick were nowhere to be seen against Oklahoma in 2009.

Wes was a very good rebounder, but just about everyone could agree that he was a finesse guy. Warrick, too.

Harris was physical enough. Carmelo wasn't soft at all, but one wouldn't exactly call him a physical player.

We've had very few physical players in the last 15-20 years. Etan, for sure. Hopkins. Mookie and Roberts, once in a while. There're more, but it's not a long list. It's not a knock on any of our players; it's just not a physical program. One more reason to celebrate the move to the ACC and away from thug-ball.

 

[arbitragegls]

Wouldn't it be interesting if JB did a Guard platoon ... start with BT and Scoop and then be able to platoon Dion and MCW? But what do I know ... I couldn't even watch the game last night :noidea:

Finally a voice to be heard...I agree with a twist...have Scoop and Waiters play together...that should be a hoot unless they both play within the team concept--they may even pass the ball to each other...back and forth...

Then have MCW and Triche play together...I am going to go out on a limb...guess who I believe is a better duo? Playing within team concept; not dribbling into crowds; not trying to be the man when others are in better position to make the play...

Unfortunately, I believe its Scoop and Triche for the season...but as much as I like Triche and beginning at times to think Scoop is good...I would like to see Scoop and his cousin play together...no doubt they would play well...and Triche and MCW would play better!

 

[Ghost]

Meh, Arinze consistently came up small against the most physical teams and teams with well-regarded bigs. He was a complete non-entity against Blair, Thabeet, and anyone Louisville threw at him - those were some of the worst games of his career. It was a running puzzle during 2008-2009 how he could play so consistently for the bulk of the games but be absolutely invisible against those guys. And he and Rick were nowhere to be seen against Oklahoma in 2009.

Wes was a very good rebounder, but just about everyone could agree that he was a finesse guy. Warrick, too.

Harris was physical enough. Carmelo wasn't soft at all, but one wouldn't exactly call him a physical player.

We've had very few physical players in the last 15-20 years. Etan, for sure. Hopkins. Mookie and Roberts, once in a while. There're more, but it's not a long list. It's not a knock on any of our players; it's just not a physical program. One more reason to celebrate the move to the ACC and away from thug-ball.

I could be remembering it incorrectly, but I felt like AO banged pretty well with those guys during his Senior year. Prior to that he was getting destroyed - which was frustrating, but his last year I don't recall it that way.