LAST 4 GAMES LEAVES SYRACUSE -11 ON REBOUND | Syracusefan.com

LAST 4 GAMES LEAVES SYRACUSE -11 ON REBOUND

retro44

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average per game. And we even have played the best rebounding teams on the schedule yet. I think Louisville is like plus 17 a game now.

Someone has to make the decision to play Chinoso as he rarely has played in those games and it's getting worse.

Give me his rebounding potential over his lack of offensive game as we have no inside offensive game with him out anyways
 
average per game. And we even have played the best rebounding teams on the schedule yet. I think Louisville is like plus 17 a game now.

Someone has to make the decision to play Chinoso as he rarely has played in those games and it's getting worse.

Give me his rebounding potential over his lack of offensive game as we have no inside offensive game with him out anyways
I think the more likely answer to this is having Coleman, Roberson and Lydon on the court together for significant stretches, which we have yet to see. There's no reason that group should get dominated on the boards.
 
I agree.
I don't see what chinoso has done that has warranted less minutes then Kaleb.

Lydon is going to get sealed off in the lowpostssome games and Chinoso could be a slightly better answer to that. Not to mention he will be bumping alot as a skinny freshmen at center all year.
 
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Keep dreaming of Chinoso getting playing time. That ship has sailed, if he hasn't played yet, he's not going to play.

UNC is going to absolutely throttle this team on the interior.
There's hope Kennedy Meeks is out for a few weeks! :)
 
No one boxes anyone out. Chino doesn't either. Malachi is a liability down low, which really kills us.
 
Riiiiight. Because the obvious solution to our woes is get Chinoso Obokoh some more PT.

Teams would be licking their chops seeing him in there.
 
ACC conference games are going to get ugly. You won't win games when you're -15 in rebounds. It's going to be a tough season.
 
ACC conference games are going to get ugly. You won't win games when you're -15 in rebounds. It's going to be a tough season.
There are 13 teams in the ACC that are ranked in the top 66 teams in the country right now and the best we went against so far is no. 27 Wisconsin and no. 70 T A&M.

Wisconsin beat us on the boards by 51-26 rebound margin and A&M by 39-31 margin.
 
Riiiiight. Because the obvious solution to our woes is get Chinoso Obokoh some more PT.
you got anything better...? He's a 6'9" with a decent frame. It's pure madness going with the status quo against teams that are better than the teams we have played so far in rebounding margin. We are not getting any inside scoring either unless Roberson gets a free look and path to the basket and even that has become an adventure lately and Coleman has no elevation in his game now,will some of that come back,who knows.
 
Just so we have the rebounding percentages; we're 335th in the country in defensive rebounding %. That's...not good.

I think our only hope is that A) the guys we have just need to be a little better, and B) we need to do the other stuff better. We're never a good defensive rebounding team, but the personnel we have this year basically ensures we're going to be really bad. it's just a matter of how bad.
 
you got anything better...? He's a 6'9" with a decent frame. It's pure madness going with the status quo against teams that are better than the teams we have played so far in rebounding margin. We are not getting any inside scoring either unless Roberson gets a free look and path to the basket and even that has become an adventure lately and Coleman has no elevation in his game now,will some of that come back,who knows.

The answer is that we have to box out and take a team rebounding approach. The only position on the court where we have a size disadvantage is at the Center position (and even that isn't the case all the time). Our backcourt is above average height and our SF and PF go 6'8"-6'9". There is zero excuse for getting out-rebounded as badly as they are; not even the zone can account for that. Rebounding is a combination of technique and desire, and right now we have neither.
 
Wild and crazy concept that no coach in America has ever thought of... how bout we actually try m2m defense. Bring up LeMoyne all you want, but that just proves how poorly coached those kids were in m2m. If they didn't know how to guard and switch on picks etc, then that falls on the coaches for not correcting those issues in practice, instead of saying "we're just not a good m2m team". If our team can't be aggressive and play m2m, then that's on the coaches. How come other avg teams can play in-your-shorts, tough m2m, but our kids can't, or won't be given the chance. For example, Wisconsin has very avg kids this year... yet their m2m made us so uncomfortable on offense and made it difficult for us to find a decent shot the entire game.

Now calm down, if our zone was being effective with these kids, then fine, I'm all for it and stick with it... but it's not working. A good coach knows when to mix it up... and by mix it up, I don't mean realize in the final minutes of a game that you're losing to finally double the ball after it gets over mid-court, put more pressure or some change of pace to try and throw off the other team, when the end result is already inevitable. Do it earlier in the game.

Our zone is completely ineffective with these players. We don't have Warricks/Grants/MCW type lanky players that can cover space in a zone and to be disruptive. We allow awful... AWFUL teams like St Johns to go off on us from outside because we get shifted out of position too often, which allows more open looks (that any level of athlete could make)... and we're hoping they miss. Secondly, even when teams are missing shots, they simply gobble up the offensive rebounds, because we stare at the ball on the way to the hoop, instead of boxing out. Whether we have the beef inside or not... if you see a shot go up, you turn, box your man out, to where theyve gotta foul you over the back for a rebound. I can't recall the last time I saw an SU player box out, outside a FT shot going up. Maybe if we tried m2m once... just once, we could see how well these kids can guard, not to mention have the ability to box out for rebounding. I mean we are falling behind in every game, it's not like we can do any worse by changing things up defensively.

Now our offensive struggles are a completely different problem. I gotta blame Jimmy there too. There's been no development of any of our bigs. TR/DC/Chino haven't shown anything since the day they came here. TR still has no inside game. He bulls over people for charges and looks robotic in his movements. And DC is just a mess out there - injury or no injury. Chino... I dunno why he was even offered a scholly. Throw in TC who is not a true starting D1 talent that hasn't improved since day 1. The kid hustles, but we're asking him to be something that he isn't. Not to mention, there's no resemblance of an offense being run. It's mainly streetball. Set all these picks which prove meaningless since we rarely have anyone who can take advantage of a pick to drive to the hoop (to score, or dish for an open shot), or take the open jumper off the pick themselves.
 
Wild and crazy concept that no coach in America has ever thought of... how bout we actually try m2m defense. Bring up LeMoyne all you want, but that just proves how poorly coached those kids were in m2m. If they didn't know how to guard and switch on picks etc, then that falls on the coaches for not correcting those issues in practice, instead of saying "we're just not a good m2m team". If our team can't be aggressive and play m2m, then that's on the coaches. How come other avg teams can play in-your-shorts, tough m2m, but our kids can't, or won't be given the chance. For example, Wisconsin has very avg kids this year... yet their m2m made us so uncomfortable on offense and made it difficult for us to find a decent shot the entire game.

Now calm down, if our zone was being effective with these kids, then fine, I'm all for it and stick with it... but it's not working. A good coach knows when to mix it up... and by mix it up, I don't mean realize in the final minutes of a game that you're losing to finally double the ball after it gets over mid-court, put more pressure or some change of pace to try and throw off the other team, when the end result is already inevitable. Do it earlier in the game.

Our zone is completely ineffective with these players. We don't have Warricks/Grants/MCW type lanky players that can cover space in a zone and to be disruptive. We allow awful... AWFUL teams like St Johns to go off on us from outside because we get shifted out of position too often, which allows more open looks (that any level of athlete could make)... and we're hoping they miss. Secondly, even when teams are missing shots, they simply gobble up the offensive rebounds, because we stare at the ball on the way to the hoop, instead of boxing out. Whether we have the beef inside or not... if you see a shot go up, you turn, box your man out, to where theyve gotta foul you over the back for a rebound. I can't recall the last time I saw an SU player box out, outside a FT shot going up. Maybe if we tried m2m once... just once, we could see how well these kids can guard, not to mention have the ability to box out for rebounding. I mean we are falling behind in every game, it's not like we can do any worse by changing things up defensively.

Now our offensive struggles are a completely different problem. I gotta blame Jimmy there too. There's been no development of any of our bigs. TR/DC/Chino haven't shown anything since the day they came here. TR still has no inside game. He bulls over people for charges and looks robotic in his movements. And DC is just a mess out there - injury or no injury. Chino... I dunno why he was even offered a scholly. Throw in TC who is not a true starting D1 talent that hasn't improved since day 1. The kid hustles, but we're asking him to be something that he isn't. Not to mention, there's no resemblance of an offense being run. It's mainly streetball. Set all these picks which prove meaningless since we rarely have anyone who can take advantage of a pick to drive to the hoop (to score, or dish for an open shot), or take the open jumper off the pick themselves.
I think you've covered everything that prevents SU from going undefeated every season. A few dozen people on this board could save themselves a lot of time by just cutting and pasting from your post whenever the spirit moves them.
 
I think you've covered everything that prevents SU from going undefeated every season. A few dozen people on this board could save themselves a lot of time by just cutting and pasting from your post whenever the spirit moves them.

Undefeated? You make it sound like I'm asking Jimmy/SU to move mountains and play perfect. I'm calling out shortcomings that Jimmy needs to be accountable for, and clearly isn't. If you're a HOF coach, figure out what needs to be changed, otherwise history is doomed to repeat itself every game this season.

1) The ability to change defenses and react to each game situation accordingly, 2) actually run a resemblance of an offense, and 3) develop players. He's lacked in all three facets with these kids. Those are the reasons why we are not a very good team right now. It's not about being perfect, it's about making adjustments/corrections, and getting kids to their potential. If other teams play a better game and you still lose, then so be it, but so much is lacking...
 
Wild and crazy concept that no coach in America has ever thought of... how bout we actually try m2m defense. Bring up LeMoyne all you want, but that just proves how poorly coached those kids were in m2m. If they didn't know how to guard and switch on picks etc, then that falls on the coaches for not correcting those issues in practice, instead of saying "we're just not a good m2m team". If our team can't be aggressive and play m2m, then that's on the coaches. How come other avg teams can play in-your-shorts, tough m2m, but our kids can't, or won't be given the chance. For example, Wisconsin has very avg kids this year... yet their m2m made us so uncomfortable on offense and made it difficult for us to find a decent shot the entire game.

Now calm down, if our zone was being effective with these kids, then fine, I'm all for it and stick with it... but it's not working. A good coach knows when to mix it up... and by mix it up, I don't mean realize in the final minutes of a game that you're losing to finally double the ball after it gets over mid-court, put more pressure or some change of pace to try and throw off the other team, when the end result is already inevitable. Do it earlier in the game.

Our zone is completely ineffective with these players. We don't have Warricks/Grants/MCW type lanky players that can cover space in a zone and to be disruptive. We allow awful... AWFUL teams like St Johns to go off on us from outside because we get shifted out of position too often, which allows more open looks (that any level of athlete could make)... and we're hoping they miss. Secondly, even when teams are missing shots, they simply gobble up the offensive rebounds, because we stare at the ball on the way to the hoop, instead of boxing out. Whether we have the beef inside or not... if you see a shot go up, you turn, box your man out, to where theyve gotta foul you over the back for a rebound. I can't recall the last time I saw an SU player box out, outside a FT shot going up. Maybe if we tried m2m once... just once, we could see how well these kids can guard, not to mention have the ability to box out for rebounding. I mean we are falling behind in every game, it's not like we can do any worse by changing things up defensively.

Now our offensive struggles are a completely different problem. I gotta blame Jimmy there too. There's been no development of any of our bigs. TR/DC/Chino haven't shown anything since the day they came here. TR still has no inside game. He bulls over people for charges and looks robotic in his movements. And DC is just a mess out there - injury or no injury. Chino... I dunno why he was even offered a scholly. Throw in TC who is not a true starting D1 talent that hasn't improved since day 1. The kid hustles, but we're asking him to be something that he isn't. Not to mention, there's no resemblance of an offense being run. It's mainly streetball. Set all these picks which prove meaningless since we rarely have anyone who can take advantage of a pick to drive to the hoop (to score, or dish for an open shot), or take the open jumper off the pick themselves.


There is actually some merit in much of this. You bring up some valid points on the coaching in regards to M2M concepts and lack of player development in someone like Roberson (throw in Joseph too). One could say we've been missing with some of the guard recruiting (or the recruitniks are) lately. I still don't know what it is with the poor shooting or shaky handles. Do their skills just erode when coming here?

But, Cooney is a starting D1 guard on most teams. He's just asked to do too much because of flawed teams here the last few years and poor guard depth. Now some of this falls on the coaching staff as well as early entry. But, most 'elite' programs reload. You can't have enough guard playmakers and ballhandlers. The staff is hopefully realizing this. Obokoh is clearly useless but he was a big factor in bringing in Chukwu so there is a silver lining there. Still, this program can ill afford to be bringing in 'projects' moving forward.
 
Undefeated? You make it sound like I'm asking Jimmy/SU to move mountains and play perfect. I'm calling out shortcomings that Jimmy needs to be accountable for, and clearly isn't. If you're a HOF coach, figure out what needs to be changed, otherwise history is doomed to repeat itself every game this season.

1) The ability to change defenses and react to each game situation accordingly, 2) actually run a resemblance of an offense, and 3) develop players. He's lacked in all three facets with these kids. Those are the reasons why we are not a very good team right now. It's not about being perfect, it's about making adjustments/corrections, and getting kids to their potential. If other teams play a better game and you still lose, then so be it, but so much is lacking...

I gotta be honest - as much as I'd like to see them switch to m2m... the rebounding may not improve much if any because it demands accountability by the staff. If they're not currently being coached to box out in the zone.. and yes, it is possible to make this a point of emphasis if they wanted to... then the coaching staff probably won't make boxing out a critical detail if they were struck by lightning and decided to try m2m.

Bottom line - it is criminal that they won't try different schemes given the major personnel issues... but as fans there's not much we can do about it except wait for Hopkins to take over and *hope* that he will have a very different tactical approach. We know he'll integrate m2m. Let's just hope it's not JB's version of m2m.
 

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