Last 5 years. No team has made more Final Fours than Cuse | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Last 5 years. No team has made more Final Fours than Cuse

This seems to be a popular narrative about the 2015-16 season, yet no one brings this up to discuss 2012-13 when we made the final four (and lost TEN games)

That 2013 team was a 4 seed and was never in doubt of making the tourney all year. We were ranked in the Top 10 of the AP poll every week except the last three where we dropped to #17. Indiana was probably the best team in the country that season and we dominated them from start to finish.

I would say about 95% of this board was surprised on Selection Sunday in 2016 that we got in, and 99% were surprised we weren't in a play-in game.

They're just not comparable seasons in terms of team strength.
 
2013 was picked by some to make the Final Four.(I specifically remember Jerry Palm having us as a Final Four team when the brackets are were announced).
It was weaker team than 2012 but MCW and Triche up top made the zone insane.
We were destroying inferior teams.
We just lost games because of our offense.
2013 wasn’t a fluke.

Yeah, they started the year with high expectations (that was the aircraft carrier opener, I think) but then lost to Temple and kind of had a rough patch where the offense wasn't evolving, pace was slow, and Southerland got suspended (and then was really lost when he returned). But, as you say, the Final Four was not a fluke at all. They earned those ten losses (Michael Carter-Williams kind of forgot how to play point guard during the meet of the conference schedule, starting with his crazy meltdown at Villanova), but then Southerland started to hit shots and the group came together defensively at the right time and got a phenomenal draw when Indiana was the one seed in the East. Phenomenal. The whole thing really comes down to matchups. Butler = bad. Indiana = terrific.
 
The 2016 Final Four run was incredible. We earned that banner and it can never be taken away from us. I was on the verge of hyperventilation during Malachi's out-of-his-mind scoring.

However, if you're evaluating the strength of our program over the past 3-4 years, it isn't relevant. We lost 14 games that season and received an unbelievably fortunate turn of events to get us to the Final Four. We have to be able to compartmentalize (a) being excited about that Final Four and (b) thoughtfully evaluating the program.

A magical run over a couple weeks does not wipe out 4 years of mediocrity.

These have been a bad four years (for Syracuse). If that is the sole frame of a question, then I agree it's silly to argue that the Final 4 team turns this stretch into something different other than a bad run.

But I don't think that's really the crucial question, or that one that's actually dividing people. The question is, or should be, what does that down stretch mean and what does it suggest for the future?

And for that you need to open your frame wider, and look not just at these four years (which have been poor!) but at what's come before and what is coming after. And this is why I think a lot of the pessimism is misguided. Syracuse has had four-year stretches like this before. From 05-08, Syracuse didn't win a single tournament game, missed the tournament twice, and only made it the third time because of a near-half-court shot in the first round of the BET. And in 2008, there were countless posts here about how Boeheim had lost it, how the zone was passe, how the offense was terrible, how the recruiting had dipped from Carmelo Anthony to Andy Rautins. In retrospect, we see that run as a series of unfortunate events between a couple great runs of basketball.

From 96-02, Syracuse mostly made the tournament but was never in the mix for a national championship and repeatedly started Billy Celuck in actual Big East basketball games. Then the next year the team won a national championship.

Going into next year, Syracuse again has what is likely to be a top-5 recruiting class and will hopefully will return a bunch of talented guys who got good experience this year. To me, that looks an awful lot like 2002 or 2008/9 (not predicting a national championship or #1 seed, but I do think that looks like a return to top-4 seeds). For that reason, a lot of the sturm and drang here seems massively over done. This year's team has massive structural limitations, which was apparent from day 1. Some of these are the results of mistakes, some of bad luck, some even of good luck (Malachi having that crazy run in the '16 NCAAs, without which he almost certainly returns last year.) It happens.
 
2013 was picked by some to make the Final Four.(I specifically remember Jerry Palm having us as a Final Four team when the brackets are were announced).
It was weaker team than 2012 but MCW and Triche up top made the zone insane.
We were destroying inferior teams.
We just lost games because of our offense.
2013 wasn’t a fluke.
1) I specifically remember Seth Davis picking us to lose to Montana
2) 2016 wasn't a fluke.
 
The final fours over the last five years don't really matter when it comes to current
perception of the program by the fans, and that perception, backed up by the record,
is that the program is declining. One can pick lots of stats, but JB is 72-45, 29-28 in
the ACC, 0-3 in the ACC tourney, one miracle run to the final four, one flameout in
the NIT, and this year looks to be another NIT run at the moment. I used to be a fan
of his, but I just got tired of things like ... another whiny press conference dumping
on a player, another on camera shot of him digging for oil, recruiting players who
used to be good PLAYERS but now recruiting the correct sized players for a defense
without regard to offensive shortcomings, and worst, a team that used to be fun to
watch but no longer is. I'm tired of listening to him state over and over that the team
doesn't run a good offense. Someone is a hall of fame coach in this conversation; I
thought the job of a coach is to fix things that aren't working? I'm tired of listening
to him state the team can't rebound. Well, fine, go recruit some rebounders. But when
you recruit the long, lanky, "SU forward", which has historically been poor at
rebounding, you cannot then go and continue to complain about that facet of the team
being weak. Come up with some sort of offense other than "give the ball to so-and-so,
and see what they can do". Last year, I think there was a string of games that SU won
where his press conferences or halftime interviews were something along the lines of
"well, we have to (had to) change our offense from isos to spread out and do this". It
was 3-4 games in a row of this, and my question was, "how about NOT starting the
game that way, fix it BEFORE you get down by 15 points?" Now, with UVa and FSU on
the horizon, it's the same as it was before the Kansas game, the fans seem to be
resigned to hoping to avoid blowout losses. There was a time SU could score 80 ppg
with no trouble. You didn't go into a game saying they're going to get blown out cuz
they can't score enough. I liked those teams. I don't like watching a team that
struggles to score 49 pts against a lousy defensive UND team. I didn't like watching
them win a game 46-45 against GTech three seasons ago. It sucks that SU fans are
reduced to watching that type of game. You have a coach that morphed from a fun,
fast-paced offensive team, to now coaching a team that walks up the court, has no
real offense, and plays a defense that allows teams to control the clock and rewards
patient teams. And I'm not sure the fan interest or the success rate of the team has
remained the same.

And here's a note for the future, you know, the offense will likely not have these problems
next year with the incoming class, and some will say "see, sanctions over, you can get
players", but SU has passed on lots of talent that would've helped the offense because the
kid didn't fit the zone. If you're going to recruit to be a defensive team, one shouldn't be
surprised that the offense regresses.

kev
 
It takes luck to make it to a Final Four no matter how talented you are. Doesn't make it a fluke.
You might want to look up the definition of fluke.
No 10 seed ever had made the Final Four.
We were the first 10 seed to reach the Final Four it was a fluke.

fluke
flo͞ok/
noun
noun: fluke; plural noun: flukes
  1. unlikely chance occurrence, especially a surprising piece of luck.
    "their triumph was a fluke"
    synonyms: chance, coincidence, accident, twist of fate; More piece of luck, stroke of good luck/fortune, serendipity
    "what a nice fluke, finding you here"
 
Cherry Picked Data. The truth is that Cuse has declined but seems poise to rebound (with hopefully a big jump next season)

Take the season records from 12-13 to current day.

130-62. Pretty bad. Obviously lots of reasons but let's not pretend. Rough patch but things are looking better.
 

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