Lester & AJ - playbook vs progression reads

[Cuse'91]

Wake is 10th in total defense in the ACC in total defense vs ACC opponents giving up an average of 422 ypg (the in all games). They just are not that good.

I am happy with the win but I don't think we are good enough to make it to a bowl and that will really hurt. We need those extra practices.

Agree - That was not a dominating defense we faced yesterday.
I suspect WF's schedule skews their defensive stats...

 

[Jake]

one thing i didnt see mentioned was the reverse we called that was set up and the tackle and QB didnt block the only guy on the D close to the play.

I'm not a big fan of running the reverse off the read option. Poor concept IMHO. I doesn't suck in the back side defensive end. I'd rather run the reverse off our limited option package.

I've always felt if set up correctly, the reverse off the option has the greatest "home run" potential.

 

[bevosu]

I thought AJ was a little too quick when it came to choosing a receiver and letting the ball go..yesterday.

When you roll right or left many times you do that to either get the defense thinking you might keep the ball and run...it usually has the corner guys guessing a little. It also gives the QB some more time to look over his potential receivers. AJ would roll right or left and too quickly zero in on a particular guy and let it go (when he had more time to scan). Usually a sideline pass. Not really utilizing the threat to keep it and run...and not using enough time to let his receivers work.

He seemed to look off of receivers last week better than he did yesterday. maybe they were simple set plays that Lester thought would be easier to ease AJ into? I was disappointed that they seemed to be more cautious than I would have liked. Part of it might have been to protect AJ?

 

[CuseOnly]

Louisville beat WF 20-10 and we beat them 30-7. Louisville's #1 ranked D gave up more points than we did and about 70 less yards. We also scored 10 more points than Louisville.

I would say we were moving in the right direction on both sides of the ball. Especially with the young personnel that we are forced to play at the moment.

Being more productive regardless of red zone scoring while playing without; Foy, Hunt, Miller, Estime, Broyld and Lewis is pretty remarkable.

 

[upperdeck]

Wake has 2 corners they think might get shots at the Pro's thats enough to give most teams trouble.. Wakes defense could be great, but when the offense is that bad you will give up something.. You cant be on the field all day and they usually are.

 

[Cootface]

I'm not a big fan of running the reverse off the read option. Poor concept IMHO. I doesn't suck in the back side defensive end. I'd rather run the reverse off our limited option package. I've always felt if set up correctly, the reverse off the option has the greatest "home run" potential.

Anyone else read this and have McNabb/Kevin Johnson flashbacks?

 

[chakka3421]

I thought AJs roll outs, bubbles & sweep plays were designed to help protect Emrich's first start as center. I don't think they ran too many plays between the tackles yesterday. Hopefully we get a few starters back next week.

 

[Crusty]

Wake has 2 corners they think might get shots at the Pro's thats enough to give most teams trouble.. Wakes defense could be great, but when the offense is that bad you will give up something.. You cant be on the field all day and they usually are.

Our receivers had no problem with their corners - none at all. AJ completed 68% of his passers and they weren't all short throws.

If those corners are going to the NFL they must be headed to Jacksonville.

 

[Crusty]

Lester is a much better play caller than GM. Lester has a better feel for his personal than GM and Lester allows players to get into a game flow vs GM. In short we are seeing the results of better coaching.

While I get that general sense that the flow is better and the play calling better, I keep trying to get an objective measurement but I can't find one. Every time I think I have found something like better 3rd down conversions, it seems to have more to do with AJ's accuracy than play calling.

I think that we will get a much clearer picture moving forward. Remember, however, that now there is now game film on AJ and Lester and ACC coaches will adapt making it harder each game.

I am hopeful he is the guy as it is much better for the program to not have to make yet another big change in offensive philosophy.

 

[dinosaurbbq]

I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but nothing much has changed except the plays from a reduced playbook came in faster and AJ is far more accurate than Hunt. Before you think that is enough, remember that 1) we continued to have our perplexing problems in the red zone, and; 2) the offense only scored 16 points, including one TD on a broken play. At this point in AJ's development, we can expect to see a lot of good things and almost as many bad.

On the bright side, we got a TD on that pick play that was called back (probably a correct call on Flemming) and West missed a possible TD when the sun got in his eyes . On the replay it looked obvious that he couldn't quite find the ball and, having been at the game, I can tell you the sun was right in his eyes.

AJ is a talented teenager, but he has a long way to go. I wish we had not had to burn his shirt because he has a lot to learn. I like the kid and I think he is going to be a really good QB for us, but yesterday's game reminded me not to have great expectations for him this year. (It's really unfair to him, but it is what it is.)
Don't get me wrong , AJ played an OK game for a true freshman, but his inexperience showed all game as he made many poor decisions on his reads yesterday. He was very fortunate not to have had at least 2 and as many as 3 picks.On one play, two defenders collided with each other to prevent a pick and on another his pass was thrown late and was six inches away from a pick six.
.
Watching the replay, he missed far too many zone reads. At first, I thought he might have been told not to keep it and run, but why call a zone read option play with no option?

After the 33 yard pass completion to West on our opening drive of the second half, we ran an option play in the third period from their 18. AJ tossed it out-of-bounds well in front of Gulley, who had an angle on the safety who had come up to stop the play. It would have been a long gain or even a TD. It was actually ruled a fumble (OOB) for a loss of 3 yards. A freshman mistake. On the next play AJ was sacked ending the drive.

AJ threw some really great passes, but we just have to be patient with him while he learns. Long to Ishmael is going to be a great combo going forward.

At this point I still don't know if Lester is the guy. He has had his good and bad series just like every OC in the game. I like a lot of what I see. We will learn more each week.

I see all kinds of changes. Plays definitely in quicker, more accurate passes, AJ moving through progression to second and third receiver target, more upfield vertical pass plays, less rotation in of players needlessly, proper players used as targets in plays instead of Custis (good god) receiving a screen, better blocking, less drops. Am I forgetting anything? I think this team right now, banged up as it is, is a much better offensive team right now than what we started with under GMD and Hunt.

 

[javadoc]

I'm not a big fan of running the reverse off the read option. Poor concept IMHO. I doesn't suck in the back side defensive end. I'd rather run the reverse off our limited option package.

I've always felt if set up correctly, the reverse off the option has the greatest "home run" potential.

Qadry Ismail approves of this message.

 

[Crusty]

I see all kinds of changes. Plays definitely in quicker, more accurate passes, AJ moving through progression to second and third receiver target, more upfield vertical pass plays, less rotation in of players needlessly, proper players used as targets in plays instead of Custis (good god) receiving a screen, better blocking, less drops. Am I forgetting anything? I think this team right now, banged up as it is, is a much better offensive team right now than what we started with under GMD and Hunt.

Yes, I believe I said that AJ is far more accurate than Hunt was and I said that the plays were coming in faster from a reduced playbook. But, we aren't throwing that much more vertical - AJ is just completing them.

There is noting wrong with TE screens. This board has been going nuts about the absence of passes to the TE and now you don't like the pattern? Almost all TE patterns are within 10 yards so what is wrong with a screen?

As for fewer player rotations - we have fewer players! We'll see what happens when we get some of the starters back but until then, Lester has fewer choices.

I think if you watch the replay and look at the plays in frame by frame advance you will have a different feeling about AJ's reads both run and pass. A lot of his completions were on play action to Ismael - no decision to be made there.

Did you see the plays that I mentioned? Most were bad reads.

We continue to drop passes, miss blocks. Morris dropped a sure TD.

BTW - A simplified playbook is a two edged sword. ACC OC's will quickly know what is in the limited playbook and what AJ can and can't do. It stands to reason it is easier for them to plan for fewer plays. Then what do we do? Lester will try to add things every week becasue he has to - and those things will be from the existing playbook.

 

[Jake]

It's amazing how much more separation our receivers are getting with Long at QB. 3...2..1...

 

[dinosaurbbq]

Yes, I believe I said that AJ is far more accurate than Hunt was and I said that the plays were coming in faster from a reduced playbook. But, we aren't throwing that much more vertical - AJ is just completing them.
I think we are doing both.

There is noting wrong with TE screens. This board has been going nuts about the absence of passes to the TE and now you don't like the pattern? Almost all TE patterns are within 10 yards so what is wrong with a screen?
A screen to Custis, the largest and slowest of our offensive pass catchers, with him standing there waiting on the ball behind two blockers is dumb, because he is must less likely to make a tackler miss and take it to the house, which is most of the intent of that play. Its also readily apparent from the beginning of the play that he is not blocking on the play. The beauty of the TE pass is the possibility that the defense doesn't account for the TE as a pass catcher, because he might be blocking and the fact that the TE can throw a quick block or fake blocking and then run straight down the field for a seem pass whether its 10 yards from LOS or 25 or better yet, in the end zone. More important still, Custis' advantage is being bigger than anyone who normally is going to be defending him on pass plays and putting him behind two blockers on a screen isn't taking advantage of that at all. It is flat out stupid to have him do that as opposed to a faster, shiftier, smaller pass catching WR or RB. There is a huge difference if we are using a screen as most teams do that has players moving at the time of the catch and somewhere on the field other than right next to the sideline with two blockers directly ahead of him waiting on the ball for 5 seconds.

As for fewer player rotations - we have fewer players! We'll see what happens when we get some of the starters back but until then, Lester has fewer choices.
We still have four RB but they are not rotating out every play and being used without any regard to which back is carrying the ball. As for WR, I hope that problem is fixed and doesn't reappear when we get more healthy bodies. I want Ishmael on the field for every offensive snap, along with West, Broyld and Estime seeing most of the action. I don't want Kobena or Fleming near the field when the others are healthy. But you are right, we'll have to see when there are choices.

I think if you watch the replay and look at the plays in frame by frame advance you will have a different feeling about AJ's reads both run and pass. A lot of his completions were on play action to Ismael - no decision to be made there.
On pass reads, I saw him go to third receiver on the West missed TD pass and second receiver maybe one time. Otherwise, he went primary receiver. On run reads, I didn't notice either way and admittedly I wouldn't know what to look for as much as you. To be sure, as a true frosh with snaps in two games now, I wouldn't expect him to be great at that, but I see promise there. Hunt as a junior/senior with more than a full year of starts now, I would expect to be better at that, but he's not. I saw promise in Hunt on that at one time, too.

Did you see the plays that I mentioned? Most were bad reads.

We continue to drop passes, miss blocks. Morris dropped a sure TD.
There were three total drops on the day. West dropped one in the endzone that was coming in hot and which he made no effort for. West dropped one along the sideline that was a tough catch, but which I think the average WR in college wouldn't have caught. I think Ishmael would have caught both of those. Morris' drop he actually shortarmed the ball and if he'd have stuck his hands out there, he could have caught it. He heard footsteps. Had he caught it, he very well may have gotten crushed at the 5. He is a RB though and not much used and that increases the difficulty significantly. I called them out for all of those drops in another thread too, but these are quantitatively and qualitatively different than the drops earlier this year.

BTW - A simplified playbook is a two edged sword. ACC OC's will quickly know what is in the limited playbook and what AJ can and can't do. It stands to reason it is easier for them to plan for fewer plays. Then what do we do? Lester will try to add things every week becasue he has to - and those things will be from the existing playbook.
I think we are in a better place now than two weeks ago. I hope I'm right. I think the offense will keep getting better with experience together and more healthy bodies with talent. We've lost starters that were our two best WR last year. Our WR are getting open now and making plays. This is getting fun to watch.

We must be looking at different games. While some of those things are happening (better accuracy and plays coming in quicklyone of them is not AJ moving through his progressions quickly and making good decisions.
He's a true freshman in his second game. I think he'll get better at it. Hunt never did.

Crusty -- you were one of the posters I was most looking forward to meeting yesterday. I enjoy reading your posts. Saw you in the stands during the game, but didn't get a chance to introduce myself.

 

[Crusty]

Crusty -- you were one of the posters I was most looking forward to meeting yesterday. I enjoy reading your posts. Saw you in the stands during the game, but didn't get a chance to introduce myself.

Are you going to Clemson?

 

[dinosaurbbq]

Are you going to Clemson?

Wish I was brother.

 

[eddie in nc]

While I get that general sense that the flow is better and the play calling better, I keep trying to get an objective measurement but I can't find one. Every time I think I have found something like better 3rd down conversions, it seems to have more to do with AJ's accuracy than play calling.

I think that we will get a much clearer picture moving forward. Remember, however, that now there is now game film on AJ and Lester and ACC coaches will adapt making it harder each game.

I am hopeful he is the guy as it is much better for the program to not have to make yet another big change in offensive philosophy.

Maybe a little bit of AJ being more accurate is coaching and a little bit of Hunt being inaccurate is also coaching. I think we're now putting AJ in position to be accurate. I'm not sure the same could have been said for Hunt. I think that McD, thinking he had a seasoned QB, perhaps put too much on Hunts plate and tried to make him something he was not. At the end of last year we were thinking similar things about Hunt that we are now thinking about AJ. Hopefully this all works out in the end.

Agree about the system/philosophy. An overhaul would set us back a bit.

 

[TheCusian]

Maybe a little bit of AJ being more accurate is coaching and a little bit of Hunt being inaccurate is also coaching. I think we're now putting AJ in position to be accurate. I'm not sure the same could have been said for Hunt. I think that McD, thinking he had a seasoned QB, perhaps put too much on Hunts plate and tried to make him something he was not. At the end of last year we were thinking similar things about Hunt that we are now thinking about AJ. Hopefully this all works out in the end. Agree about the system/philosophy. An overhaul would set us back a bit.

I'd like to think this is it - but Hunt was missing swing passes and short screens by a mile.