Let’s forget Talent and NIL for a minute

[orangecuse]

I have ZERO faith in Wildhack

His first major hire (revenue sport) of his athletic director career has been dreadful. I've posted below before relative to Wildhack's own words when introducing Red as the new head coach. Based upon same, the apparent contract (5 years at 3 mil/yr. etc. alleged here) that Red signed would 100% align with Wildhack's sentiment and belief, and hardly just a PR type deal, etc.

Wildhack said, Autry has been exposed to every aspect of the sport, and that uniquely prepares him for the job. “Adrian earned this,” Wildhack said Friday. “Adrian’s not here because he’s an alum, because he played here, because he’s an associate coach here. He’s here because I believe he’s the best candidate to lead this program and sustain the success that coach Boeheim has established over 47 years.”

Additionally, this is a guy who only several months prior to dismissing JB, stated to his audience, community, etc. that all's good, and JB had built up a significant amount of "equity." Considering, JB's final season was pretty much status quo to where it had been the past few seasons leading up to it, versus one along the lines of the financial crisis/great recession, etc., that "equity" sure tanked rather quickly.

Furthermore, at least based upon posts here, Fran Brown is the one who called Wildhack and pitched himself to be hired, versue John finding him, therefore, falling in his lap so to speak. However, I guess one can give Wildhack credit for pulling the trigger on the (out of nowhere) type hire.

However, based upon same, along with some of the other handlings (Women's hoops, etc.), consider me not that impressed and not having much faith as well.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

On another site, the debate is that you cannot fire someone after 2 years. The funny thing is that I struggle to find a scenario where someone is clearly not up to the task after two years... is given a third year just "because"... and then it works out. Certainly not at Syracuse (see Shafer/GERG).

What is the best upset of the Red coaching career? Dino upset Clemson. MacPherson upset Nebraska. What is the proof that Red can beat a team he should not beat. I only see proof of losing and almost losing to teams we should beat.

Mac didn't upset Nebraska until year 4.

Good thing he wasn't fired after going 6-15-1 his first two seasons.

 

[AcAndAc]

Mac didn't upset Nebraska until year 4.

Good thing he wasn't fired after going 6-15-1 his first two seasons.

The Sac Mac Pack did not really take off until Year 5 or 6, IIRC. At the same time, anyone watching the program could see the building blocks being put in place. We kept Tim Green from leaving the area to go to Penn State. The 4-wheel drive defensive line was stout. It was the offense holding us back. Finally, in 1987, the offense gelled.

Regardless, in that era, there was much more patience with coaches, especially with football. Now that we are well past 1983, coaches sometimes get fired after 4, 3, and even 2 years. But in the 1980s, that was pretty rare. Even in the NFL... 15 head coaches were fired after 1 season from 1970-2000. 14 from 2011 to 2024. Nearly double the pace.

With higher pay comes higher expectations. I do not see anyone turning down the big money that comes along with big expectations.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

Yeah, I don’t trust Wildhack’s ability to make hard decisions when it comes to SU lifers or to make the best subsequent hire. But Indont think the AD is changing anytime soon so it is what it is and we just have to hope for the best.

 

[capeorange]

I think that's fair. It is hard to say definitively how many wins the injuries to Starling and Freeman have cost us.

We were 6-8 in the games Freeman played this season, including some bad losses to ND and G'town.

Meanwhile we were 4-3 in the games where Starling and Freeman played together, including a loss to FSU.

So maybe we'd be a couple games better with those guys fully healthy?

I won't give them any breaks for the PG situation. The staff owns that. They targeted a kid from GA, even hired his college coach, and he went to UGA for $200K more. That's just a bad evaluation and a worse close on the deal, IMHO.

Lol! We could have skipped hiring the coach and had enough money to pay for the guard.

 

[AcAndAc]

Yeah, I don’t trust Wildhack’s ability to make hard decisions when it comes to SU lifers or to make the best subsequent hire. But Indont think the AD is changing anytime soon so it is what it is and we just have to hope for the best.

After this year: No money to pay the buyout and afford a good coach. So let's stay the course one more year.

After next year: We've got the money now, but all the good coaches got taken last year. So let's stay the course one more year.

Someone posted elsewhere that fan excitement is back in football. No, it's not. We used to average high 40s per game all season. A lot of fans got lost along the way from Coach P to present. Some died, true. But some younger potential local fans never got excited in the first place and chose other teams (sadly) or other entertainment options (understandable). I get that the Dome was full after the dreary 1970s. But there are plenty of other options today to keep people's attention.

And we are about to find out the same reality with basketball. If/when we return to some semblance of our former glory, a good crowd will be 29 or 30k. And a good season closer to 23k average per game.

 

[Millhouse]

What's bizarre is that during the waning years of the Boeheim era folks said Autry knew the program had to modernize. That we had to run a more complex offense and that defense had to be more man with more pressure.

I figured last year was a mulligan since it was still largely JB's roster. But this season? It's Autry's roster almost entirely and we're still running an indecipherable system on both ends of the court.

I really don't get it.

If he needs time to recruit, ok. But he needed to show us something in offense and he rolls the ball out there like a weekend cyo dad

 

[cusefan88]

If he needs time to recruit, ok. But he needed to show us something in offense and he rolls the ball out there like a weekend cyo dad

going under every screen is equally maddening.

 

[hoopsupstate]

If he needs time to recruit, ok. But he needed to show us something in offense and he rolls the ball out there like a weekend cyo dad

But he also needs to show he can retain the recruits he gets (Freeman, Moore & Petar).

 

[FloridaCuse]

I’ll be honest, at this point, I’m shocked he hasn’t fired some coaches mid season. What does he have to lose? It at least would look like he’s TRYING.

Also, so what if we lose our recruits? Next season is a bust anyway. Also, maybe—just maybe—we’d be better if we stopped living in the past as a program and hoping that someone with the last name Anthony or McNamara can be our savior.

If Red stays, then he better be the only constant on the staff.

Speaking of next year and Anthony - will Melo whisper in JW's ear and make the call?

 

[FloridaCuse]

His first major hire (revenue sport) of his athletic director career has been dreadful. I've posted below before relative to Wildhack's own words when introducing Red as the new head coach. Based upon same, the apparent contract (5 years at 3 mil/yr. etc. alleged here) that Red signed would 100% align with Wildhack's sentiment and belief, and hardly just a PR type deal, etc.

Wildhack said, Autry has been exposed to every aspect of the sport, and that uniquely prepares him for the job. “Adrian earned this,” Wildhack said Friday. “Adrian’s not here because he’s an alum, because he played here, because he’s an associate coach here. He’s here because I believe he’s the best candidate to lead this program and sustain the success that coach Boeheim has established over 47 years.”

Additionally, this is a guy who only several months prior to dismissing JB, stated to his audience, community, etc. that all's good, and JB had built up a significant amount of "equity." Considering, JB's final season was pretty much status quo to where it had been the past few seasons leading up to it, versus one along the lines of the financial crisis/great recession, etc., that "equity" sure tanked rather quickly.

Furthermore, at least based upon posts here, Fran Brown is the one who called Wildhack and pitched himself to be hired, versue John finding him, therefore, falling in his lap so to speak. However, I guess one can give Wildhack credit for pulling the trigger on the (out of nowhere) type hire.

However, based upon same, along with some of the other handlings (Women's hoops, etc.), consider me not that impressed and not having much faith as well.

And a month before JB was retired he told sportswriter and SU alum Pete Thamel after a game at B.C. something like he could stay as coach as long as he wanted. But it seems that after both JB's & JW's statements something happened and some have said on here that Chancellor Kent made the Call.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It sucks Freeman got hurt, if nothing else (quite literally) I was looking forward to seeing him develop.

This is simple to me. It’s talent AND coaching. Need better players to help mask meh coaching but lesser talent needs to be coached up to consistently compete.

How do upsets happen so much in the tournament? Almost always a team of lesser talent being coached up in a system that leads to effective results. And of course a little luck.

I see too many flawed all-around basketball players (lol Chris Bell? Come on people) being instructed by a guy who doesn’t seem to know what to do, too much of the time. This is what happens when that happens.

I humbly submit that had Bell been a player in an earlier era, where JB had some talent, didn't need to start Bell as a freshman, the possibility of transfer was more apparent in extreme cases, and we were rocking a strong 2-3, that Bell would have been a fan favorite as a bombardier that extends leads or catches us up, and his inability to accumulate any counting stats other than points with any intention would have seemed like an almost endearing quality because it would highlight his specialty fitting in on a good team in a positive way.

 

[Millhouse]

But he also needs to show he can retain the recruits he gets (Freeman, Moore & Petar).

Petar principle

 

[djcon57]

Mac didn't upset Nebraska until year 4.

Good thing he wasn't fired after going 6-15-1 his first two seasons.

Great point.

We should have kept Shafer for another year, he only got 3, one more year and he'd still be here.

 

[Scooch]

I humbly submit that had Bell been a player in an earlier era, where JB had some talent, didn't need to start Bell as a freshman, the possibility of transfer was more apparent in extreme cases, and we were rocking a strong 2-3, that Bell would have been a fan favorite as a bombardier that extends leads or catches us up, and his inability to accumulate any counting stats other than points with any intention would have seemed like an almost endearing quality because it would highlight his specialty fitting in on a good team in a positive way.

There's a good half-dozen players we could say similar things about over the past 6-7 years.

For example, Joe Girard should have been an all-time favorite. But he was asked to play too much, too soon, in a position he wasn't ideally suited for.

Bell would be fine as a 18-20 minute a game gunner who plays with 4 strong defenders with him. He's clearly not built to be a 35+ minute/game all-around player.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

There's a good half-dozen players we could say similar things about over the past 6-7 years.

For example, Joe Girard should have been an all-time favorite. But he was asked to play too much, too soon, in a position he wasn't ideally suited for.

Bell would be fine as a 18-20 minute a game gunner who plays with 4 strong defenders with him. He's clearly not built to be a 35+ minute/game all-around player.

Agree on all counts.

I'd even add that if Bell was developed exclusively as a zone defender we may have considered him as a better defender than we do now.

 

[kingtidge]

There's a good half-dozen players we could say similar things about over the past 6-7 years.

For example, Joe Girard should have been an all-time favorite. But he was asked to play too much, too soon, in a position he wasn't ideally suited for, and lacked the conditioning needed to do what we were asking of him consistently.

Bell would be fine as a 18-20 minute a game gunner who plays with 4 strong defenders with him. He's clearly not built to be a 35+ minute/game all-around player.

FYP.

We really need to address nutrition, strength, and conditioning within the program and how it's lacking... And yes, Joe went to Clemson, was put on a custom diet, and got into the best shape of his career (and it showed.)

It bothers me he had to leave Syracuse to do that.

If we want to get the most out of our players, this needs to change within the program culture.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

FYP.

We really need to address nutrition, strength, and conditioning within the program and how it's lacking... And yes, Joe went to Clemson, was put on a custom diet, and got into the best shape of his career (and it showed.)

I do wonder if Joe suffered from some townie syndrome and needed to get away from familiar surroundings to figure some stuff out.

 

[kingtidge]

I do wonder if Joe suffered from some townie syndrome and needed to get away from familiar surroundings to figure some stuff out.

Not sure.

I read an article a while back on Clemson's S&C approach - it's a developmental holistic approach combining S&C with nutrition where players get custom plans depending on sport and position. Nutritionists and S&C staff help implement the plan with the athlete and track development on a host of metrics and goals set (weight, BMI, cardio and weight lifting targets, etc.)

i.e It's very comprehensive and customized by player and their needs/goals.

I have no idea what we do (and have never seen a wiriteup on what we do), but I am guessing it might not be as comprehensive?

 

[Sherman20]

Red came in and said we were going to play in your face man to man. We have seen none of that so far. Our entire roster this year and even last year lacked intensity, toughness and overall defensive mindset. Last year we gave up more points per game in any season in 35 years. This year we have given up more ppg in any season in 53 years. I could excuse the lack of talent and NIL deficiencies if we played hard and grinded it out possession by possession.

We have a roster where Joe Girard would be the best defender had he been on the team. This is a major coaching issue and likely cannot be fixed by dollars and talent. Teams are scoring 79 ppg against us. It’s unheard of.

Our defense is awful. The players aren’t good defenders and we are executing poorly. If they keep Red next season, we need to get better players and hire a defensive guru in the offseason, and Red needs to get tough on the players. The offense has actually improved a bit, they’re running more consistent sets and getting more movement, playing to their strengths. But we can’t defend at all.

 

[RF2044]

There's a good half-dozen players we could say similar things about over the past 6-7 years.

For example, Joe Girard should have been an all-time favorite. But he was asked to play too much, too soon, in a position he wasn't ideally suited for.

Bell would be fine as a 18-20 minute a game gunner who plays with 4 strong defenders with him. He's clearly not built to be a 35+ minute/game all-around player.

Good post.

In many ways, Bell is emblematic of our recent struggles. He has [or had?] an elite skill -- shooting the basketball. But he literally does nothing else.

He doesn't rebound.

He can't handle the ball.

He creates nothing for himself or others off of the bounce.

He isn't much of a defender.

When he was hitting shots, you live with some of those other limitations, because he could get streaky hot and put up points in a hurry.

This year, when he's not hitting threes [which has been a bizarre regression for such an experienced player], then he's not contributing in ANY way when he's out there.

Which is why I say he's emblematic. So many of our players are one-dimensional.

As for Girard -- I remember when we landed him. We were coming off of the Frank Howard year, with limited depth and anemic three point shooting. Girard was small, not particularly athletic, and level of competition was questionable. BUT I was envisioning that he could / would be a guy who came off of the bench, would be like the 3rd or 4th option on offense, and would burn teams who cheated off of him to focus on other players -- that his "upside" could be like Spike Albrecht's from Michigan: a guy who could get streaky hot from three, who could handle the ball a little bit and contribute as a complimentary playmaker off of the bench.

He ended up starting by like the fifth game of his freshman season, and then rarely came out of the game. The fault didn't lie with Girard -- it was that we didn't have anybody better, and didn't recruit guys to get him out of the starting lineup as our "1," or shift him off the ball to the "2," which was his natural position.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Not sure.

I read an article a while back on Clemson's S&C approach - it's a developmental holistic approach combining S&C with nutrition where players get custom plans depending on sport and position. Nutritionists and S&C staff help implement the plan with the athlete and track development on a host of metrics and goals set (weight, BMI, cardio and weight lifting targets, etc.)

i.e It's very comprehensive and customized by player and their needs/goals.

I have no idea what we do (and have never seen a wiriteup on what we do), but I am guessing it might not be as comprehensive?

I mean... that sounds pretty basic to me.

If we're just not doing that, I don't know.

 

[Sherman20]

Yeah he has totally said things and then cant display that vision on the court.

By comparison in football, Shafer talked about hard nosed and he had some talent on defense initially and wanted to run the ball.

Dino wanted to spread it out and outscore people and you could at least see that vision despite going 4-8 his first 2 years and then the stars aligned for his 10 win season.

However with Red I just see no display of his vision that he talks about and no identity for the program, he just hasn't built any foundation. And that's why his tenure will be pretty short I predict.

The lack of discernible offensive and defensive identity is a real problem. Syracuse’s identity under JB wasn’t just tied to the zone either. For decades, we were a program known for length and athleticism, generating steals and turnovers and getting fast break points off those turnovers. We were also known for big time athletic guards who could attack off the bounce and get to the rim, and long, rangy forwards who could score around the hoop and hit jumpers.

Red says he wants to play fast like the Syracuse teams of old, and we saw some of that at times with Q, JJ, Judah and Maliq, but the execution left a lot to be desired.

 

[kingtidge]

I mean... that sounds pretty basic to me.

If we're just not doing that, I don't know.

Agreed... and not saying we aren't doing some level it or our own version of it... I just don't know.

But it was pretty stark once Girard was playing at Clemson just how much better in shape he was.

He was slimmer, faster, and the 2nd half tired lapses we used see from him were a thing of the past. Total minutes I am sure had something to do with it, but Girard even said himself he was on a special diet at Clemson and he was basically in the best shape of his life.

And meanwhile, in the Melo Center, the treadmills are broken and catching dust...

 

[baggerbob]

FYP.

We really need to address nutrition, strength, and conditioning within the program and how it's lacking... And yes, Joe went to Clemson, was put on a custom diet, and got into the best shape of his career (and it showed.)

It bothers me he had to leave Syracuse to do that.

If we want to get the most out of our players, this needs to change within the program culture.

Look what happened in Football, in Fran's first year. Less injuries and seemingly better conditioned players.