Let’s forget Talent and NIL for a minute

[Sherman20]

On another site, the debate is that you cannot fire someone after 2 years. The funny thing is that I struggle to find a scenario where someone is clearly not up to the task after two years... is given a third year just "because"... and then it works out. Certainly not at Syracuse (see Shafer/GERG).

What is the best upset of the Red coaching career? Dino upset Clemson. MacPherson upset Nebraska. What is the proof that Red can beat a team he should not beat. I only see proof of losing and almost losing to teams we should beat.

We beat North Carolina last year.

 

[SWC75]

I've said this before: it's not that we're losing, it's that we look like an AAU team doing it.

JW has to see that. Slim chance JW has confidence Red can turn it around and next year is more than treading water to tick a year off the contract.

If Red turns it around to become a TOP coach in college, which is what this program deserves, it would be so miraculous they'd make a move out of it starring Denzel.

Cuba Gooding Jr. looks more like Red.

 

[721Comstock]

Cuba Gooding Jr. looks more like Red.

And similar career arc.

 

[Newhouser]

Not sure.

I read an article a while back on Clemson's S&C approach - it's a developmental holistic approach combining S&C with nutrition where players get custom plans depending on sport and position. Nutritionists and S&C staff help implement the plan with the athlete and track development on a host of metrics and goals set (weight, BMI, cardio and weight lifting targets, etc.)

i.e It's very comprehensive and customized by player and their needs/goals.

I have no idea what we do (and have never seen a wiriteup on what we do), but I am guessing it might not be as comprehensive?

It would be interesting if Joe spilled some tea.

 

[crv1728]

Or how we lost as a #2 seed in the 1st round to Richmond in 1991 at Cole Fieldhouse in College Park, Maryland. I, unfortunately, was there.

I wasn’t there but I do remember my remote suffering multiple fractures after that Richmond game.

 

[chuck]

Red came in and said we were going to play in your face man to man. We have seen none of that so far. Our entire roster this year and even last year lacked intensity, toughness and overall defensive mindset. Last year we gave up more points per game in any season in 35 years. This year we have given up more ppg in any season in 53 years. I could excuse the lack of talent and NIL deficiencies if we played hard and grinded it out possession by possession.

We have a roster where Joe Girard would be the best defender had he been on the team. This is a major coaching issue and likely cannot be fixed by dollars and talent. Teams are scoring 79 ppg against us. It’s unheard of.

He's a lousy coach I dunno why anyone thought he was a good one to begin with. He has done nothing worthy of coaching as far as accolades go in his entire career. I certainly didn't expect him to be a good head coach here.

 

[Scooch]

He's a lousy coach I dunno why anyone thought he was a good one to begin with. He has done nothing worthy of coaching as far as accolades go in his entire career. I certainly didn't expect him to be a good head coach here.

Weird, because your hero Jim thought he was a good coach.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

We have a team full of players who can't or won't play defense. No intensity, no toughness and no mindset. Your words.

Isn't that the definition of a talent issue?

I have no idea what we're teaching these guys in practice, but it's pretty obvious they're not doing it.

If I send you to the store to buy me a six-pack of Amstel Light, and you come back with Keystone Light, is that a talent issue or a coaching issue?

Problem is: Red has no idea what he’s teaching these guys. Point blank, period.

 

[DilemaCuse]

This is it exactly
They have to show me that they have any idea what to do fundamentally
I'm open to the idea that NIL is something that needs to be addressed
But this offense where people stand around is separate from that
This defense where everyone keeps going under screens
Basic stuff
It's so obvious he's gotta go but they have a nobody with no leverage a ridiculous contact

What was red going to do if they low-ball him? Go to rutgers-newark?

Exactly, this is why they could lowball him and say prove it to us and then you will get a raise and extension, nobody was bidding for his services. He would have crawled across broken glass to sign the contract for the opportunity. In no world do they remove the standing head coach with 1 year left on his contract and then hire his assistant. This isn't reality except only at SU.

Like if Nick Saban really started struggling at Alabama with a 7-5 type season and they fire/force him to retire, you think they hiring his OC to become Head Coach? LOL

If Red didnt like the offer, you just tell him, fine we will offer it to the next guy on the bench (Gmac) or can go national search and hire a bonafide experienced head coach. This isn't that complicated yet SU makes it harder on themselves.

 

[miamicuse]

Cuba Gooding Jr. looks more like Red.

SHOW ME THE NIL!!!

 

[DilemaCuse]

Assuming Red stays, I don't think he has the guts to fire the guy, who's also been at Cuse for a very long time.

Ha, its like everybody up there is afraid to make moves or they are not allowed to unless someone does something awful like Hillsman

 

[Melancer46]

Effort is talent and NIL? Huh????

Lol I'm with you, but I don't necessarily think it's coaching either. At some point the player has to want it for themselves too. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Edit: Still might be coaching, but guys like Bell didn't defend in high school either.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Lol I'm with you, but I don't necessarily think it's coaching either. At some point the player has to want it for themselves too. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Edit: Still might be coaching, but guys like Bell didn't defend in high school either.

Show me a guy on Siena that dogs it like Bell, and I'll show you his *** planted on the bench.

That's part of the coaching aspect of it.

 

[Melancer46]

Show me a guy on Siena that dogs it like Bell, and I'll show you his *** planted on the bench.

That's part of the coaching aspect of it.

Fair enough but then who do you play in his place? We desperately need his shooting even if it's merely theoretical shooting this season and it's not like we have defensive stoppers that just aren't getting minutes. Maybe with the way this season has gone off the rails, we just shouldn't care if we're putting a different bad player on the court in his place lol.

I agree though; it just feels to me like if Autry is being honest about wanting our team to be a scrappy, in your face defensive team, we really need to overhaul the hell out of this roster. We do not have those types of players.

And of course there's a very real chance Red just isn't the right coach unfortunately.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Fair enough but then who do you play in his place? We desperately need his shooting even if it's merely theoretical shooting this season and it's not like we have defensive stoppers that just aren't getting minutes. Maybe with the way this season has gone off the rails, we just shouldn't care if we're putting a different bad player on the court in his place lol.

I agree though; it just feels to me like if Autry is being honest about wanting our team to be a scrappy, in your face defensive team, we really need to overhaul the hell out of this roster. We do not have those types of players.

And of course there's a very real chance Red just isn't the right coach unfortunately.

We just lost to 1-11 Miami. We don't "need" Bell's shooting when we are so bad that none of it matters. If it takes throwing in the lanky walk-on from a local high school to change the culture and send a message, you do it.

There is literally nothing left to lose, and there hasn't been for some time.

 

[Dcuse]

Ha, its like everybody up there is afraid to make moves or they are not allowed to unless someone does something awful like Hillsman

Really? They basically escorted John Desko and Jim Boeheim- 2 of the greatest coaches in history- out the door. Yet they're afraid to make a move. This board never fails to deliver.

 

[Dcuse]

We just lost to 1-11 Miami. We don't "need" Bell's shooting when we are so bad that none of it matters. If it takes throwing in the lanky walk-on from a local high school to change the culture and send a message, you do it.

There is literally nothing left to lose, and there hasn't been for some time.

Another terrific suggestion. Can't believe you're not a head coach at a blueblood.

 

[kingtidge]

Fair enough but then who do you play in his place? We desperately need his shooting even if it's merely theoretical shooting this season and it's not like we have defensive stoppers that just aren't getting minutes. Maybe with the way this season has gone off the rails, we just shouldn't care if we're putting a different bad player on the court in his place lol.

I agree though; it just feels to me like if Autry is being honest about wanting our team to be a scrappy, in your face defensive team, we really need to overhaul the hell out of this roster. We do not have those types of players.

And of course there's a very real chance Red just isn't the right coach unfortunately.

What type of players do we have then?

Did you watch Carlos at the end of the BC game in regular time??

At the end of regulation and through the ensuing OTs he was oddly really good on D. He was a shadow on his man, moving with a speed and purpose I have rarely seen from him... poking the ball out of his mark's hand repeatedly. Tenacious.

Clearly, he's capable of doing just that... But where has THAT been all year??

Fast forward to Miami and it was back to lacksadaisical D and a lay-up and and short-shot festival for Cleveland and friends.

We have D1 college players. They're not world beaters but it's not like they're CYO leftovers either.

The lack of effort is real.

Why can't we get requisite effort out of them consistently?

 

[Melancer46]

What type of players do we have then?

Did you watch Carlos at the end of the BC game in regular time??

At the end of regulation and through the ensuing OTs he was oddly really good on D. He was a shadow on his man, moving with a speed and purpose I have rarely seen from him... poking the ball out of his mark's hand repeatedly. Tenacious.

Clearly, he's capable of doing just that... But where has THAT been all year??

Fast forward to Miami and it was back to lacksadaisical D and a lay-up and and short-shot festival for Cleveland and friends.

We have D1 college players. They're not world beaters but it's not like they're CYO leftovers either.

The lack of effort is real.

Why can't we get requisite effort out of them consistently?

I think Carlos is one of the very few that generally gives pretty good effort. He's just too undersized for it to matter much.

But yeah, our roster is filled with guys that are either low-effort, can't create offensively, or simply skillsets that don't mesh together (i.e. having a low post passer with nobody to pass to). It's not a good way to build a team and then you put poor coaching on top of that and there's simply zero hope.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

I think Carlos is one of the very few that generally gives pretty good effort. He's just too undersized for it to matter much.

But yeah, our roster is filled with guys that are either low-effort, can't create offensively, or simply skillsets that don't mesh together (i.e. having a low post passer with nobody to pass to). It's not a good way to build a team and then you put poor coaching on top of that and there's simply zero hope.

I criticized Carlos's game quite a bit early in the season (now, what's the point) but one thing I never really had an issue with was his effort. That's probably why Red was so stubborn about his minutes.

...although part of me doesn't entirely want to rule out some sort of blackmail.

 

[ar inj]

Donna may have said it best in her column this morning, and I am paraphrasing, the teams SU is playing have better players and the team with the better players usually wins.

That being said, the coaching leaves much to be desired.

 

[Millhouse]

Weird, because your hero Jim thought he was a good coach.

Not enough to want him to get the job, according to the board

 

[HyattsCuse]

Really? They basically escorted John Desko and Jim Boeheim- 2 of the greatest coaches in history- out the door. Yet they're afraid to make a move. This board never fails to deliver.

Is this sarcasm? If not, it’s just nonsensical.

You might have had a point if Hopkins took over as planned years ago. Instead, Boeheim kept himself around for the next 5-6 seasons before finally exiting. That speaks to the point that Syracuse is hesitant to make moves. An extra 5-6 years is hardly “basically escorted JB out the door”.

I can’t speak to Desko’s situation as I don’t follow lax that closely.

 

[JaySU22]

Ha, its like everybody up there is afraid to make moves or they are not allowed to unless someone does something awful like Hillsman

Worse, they were aware of the Hillsman stuff and did nothing until The Athletic exposed him as a tyrant

 

[Jack_Ball]

Worse, they were aware of the Hillsman stuff and did nothing until The Athletic exposed him as a tyrant

Football & lax seem to be only programs better off and both coaches fell into his lap.

I think he should be head of fundraising & alumni engagement or something along those lines.