let this be our offense this year

[Millhouse]

http://www.footballstudyhall.com/20...imate-spread-formation-offense-dual-threat-QB

i'm down on trying to find really versatile TE. if you can, great. but don't count on it.

hybrid rb/slot receivers, you can find those. they get the ball on sweeps when that's the right option. in this offense, the single running back is just a battering ram with hands and your qb is the running back who throws. you can find fullbacks like the other gronkowski at k state, tight ends like the real gronk are one in a million. running qbs in the spread have brought back the fullback at the expense of the tailback. in your regular old air raid, fullback is the odd man out

hopefully that west coast nonsense is just something to say. but this is what they should run with Hunt at QB

someone mentioned Kansas State in the other thread as being all about execution. well not really, they run this spread offense with a power running qb

100% college offense

 

[OrangePA]

I think K-State is a fair example of what can be done with decent, not great offensive talent.

Bill Snyder, the coach of the 20th Century, always takes advantage of a solid running QB taking the direct snap.

We first saw it with Michael Bishop at the Fiesta Bowl.

The basic premise makes sense - the QB takes the snap and is assisted by ten, rather than nine blockers.

 

[Millhouse]

I think K-State is a fair example of what can be done with decent, not great offensive talent.

Bill Snyder, the coach of the 20th Century, always takes advantage of a solid running QB taking the direct snap.

We first saw it with Michael Bishop at the Fiesta Bowl.

The basic premise makes sense - the QB takes the snap and is assisted by ten, rather than nine blockers.

they still use space to eliminate defenders, which is what i love so much about the spread. when their guys get tackled, it's a solo tackle more than any other school. they get the benefit of the 4 wr spreading the defense wide while still using a lead blocker by dispensing with the conventional running back. motion and sweeps are there as an option to have small WR get some carries.

they'll use two TE as a response to defenses going small to stop the spread but it's not something they're built on.

trying to figure out what's going on at SU is futile. i just would've felt much better if lester had mentioned snyder or meyer instead of all those nfl guys

 

[KaiserUEO]

so wait, we are not running florida's offense??

hunt is not a heisman front-runner, like their QBs always are??

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

trying to figure out what's going on at SU is futile. i just would've felt much better if lester had mentioned snyder or meyer instead of all those nfl guys

Our last OC tried to use someone else's system to disastrous results. Let the guy run what he has faith in.

 

[Millhouse]

Our last OC tried to use someone else's system to disastrous results. Let the guy run what he has faith in.

i hope he has faith in this rather than the walshanahaniak offense

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

i hope he has faith in this rather than the walshanahaniak offense

You realize the offense they'll be running isn't four offenses meshed into one, right?

It's going to be an offense built around short passing plays (the West Coast element), zone blocking (the Shanahan element), and the zone read with lots of QB running (the Seahawks element). We're going to run the ball way more than what we saw under McF***it, and we're going to use the pass to open up the defense.

 

[Scooch]

You realize the offense they'll be running isn't four offenses meshed into one, right?

It's going to be an offense built around short passing plays (the West Coast element), zone blocking (the Shanahan element), and the zone read with lots of QB running (the Seahawks element). We're going to run the ball way more than what we saw under McF***it, and we're going to use the pass to open up the defense.

FWIW, that was a more cogent explanation of our potential O than anything our OC or HC has ever uttered. I hereby nominate you for OC.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

FWIW, that was a more cogent explanation of our potential O than anything our OC or HC has ever uttered. I hereby nominate you for OC.

I'd be happy with a position as coach-speak translator.

 

[Scooch]

I'd be happy with a position as coach-speak translator.

Talk about a lucrative gig.

 

[TheCusian]

You realize the offense they'll be running isn't four offenses meshed into one, right? It's going to be an offense built around short passing plays (the West Coast element), zone blocking (the Shanahan element), and the zone read with lots of QB running (the Seahawks element). We're going to run the ball way more than what we saw under McF***it, and we're going to use the pass to open up the defense.

Don't break Millhouse's narrative. He's worked hard on it.

 

[Alsacs]

FWIW, that was a more cogent explanation of our potential O than anything our OC or HC has ever uttered. I hereby nominate you for OC.

It is sad that our coaches couldn't even say that and more people aren't scared. Until I see change I find it hard to believe it will happen.

 

[Millhouse]

You realize the offense they'll be running isn't four offenses meshed into one, right?

It's going to be an offense built around short passing plays (the West Coast element), zone blocking (the Shanahan element), and the zone read with lots of QB running (the Seahawks element). We're going to run the ball way more than what we saw under McF***it, and we're going to use the pass to open up the defense.

you forgot the kubiakian element of not ever being any good

i'm skeptical of anyone that describes short passes (which everyone does) as west coast.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

you forgot the kubiakian element of not ever being any good

i'm skeptical of anyone that describes short passes (which everyone does) as west coast.

Well, Kubiak is a Shanahan disciple and was OC when Terrell Davis was running circles around the league. And he coached Arian Foster. So Zone Blocking.

And why are you skeptical of anyone who describes short passes as West Coast? Isn't that what it is at its most basic element? Yeah, there's timing patterns involved, and it requires a variety of check-downs and reads. But this is a zone-read scheme anyway.

 

[Millhouse]

Well, Kubiak is a Shanahan disciple and was OC when Terrell Davis was running circles around the league. And he coached Arian Foster. So Zone Blocking.

And why are you skeptical of anyone who describes short passes as West Coast? Isn't that what it is at its most basic element? Yeah, there's timing patterns involved, and it requires a variety of check-downs and reads. But this is a zone-read scheme anyway.

when you make it that basic, it ceases to be a useful description at all because it means everyone is west coast

if 3 and 5 step drops with routes precisely timed to the qbs feet aren't part of the offense, why bother talking west coast? i prefer college qbs just be in the shotgun all day - i'd love to have the problem where NFL talking heads are dinging our guys in the draft for not having great footwork. would be a great problem to have

i fear that, like cubit's, this is going to be a jack of all trades master of none offense with a low ceiling.

that bill walsh west coast influence was probably why cubit was hired at Stanford and I doubt it was that superficial an influence for him

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

when you make it that basic, it ceases to be a useful description at all because it means everyone is west coast

if 3 and 5 step drops with routes precisely timed to the qbs feet aren't part of the offense, why bother talking west coast? i prefer college qbs just be in the shotgun all day - i'd love to have the problem where NFL talking heads are dinging our guys in the draft for not having great footwork. would be a great problem to have

i fear that, like cubit's, this is going to be a jack of all trades master of none offense with a low ceiling.

that bill walsh west coast influence was probably why cubit was hired at Stanford and I doubt it was that superficial an influence for him

First of all, it's West Coast-influenced. Not the full West Coast experience.

And with all of the jet sweeps and zone reads, the offense will have to be in a shotgun for at least some of the time.

Maybe the offense will work, maybe it won't. (And I'm not getting my hopes up).

But we don't have a QB who has shown he can consistently complete passes, nor a WR corps that has shown they can get open or (ugh) catch a pass.

This is going to be a run heavy team. Let's just hope they can move the chains that way.

 

[Alsacs]

West Coast offense doesn't work in college football as well pro football. In pro football the speed of the game is basically the same. The gap between the fastest NFL team and slowest NFL team are miniscule.

In college football speed is not equal a lot of the time. What works in college is spreading defenses out and getting the ball in the space and having you speed players turn 5 yard plays into 20+ yard plays with YAC and breaking 1 tackle. Also, QBs have to be able to be dual-threats a lot more in college football. You don't need speed QBs, but with defenses spread typically defenses play a lot of dime coverage and that means fewer LBs on the field.

As long as Syracuse breaks in speed at the WR/RB/LB/DB positions you have a nice foundation.

I can break down the west coast offense but will just break it downa at a very macro style it is a combination of three step, five step drops, seven step drops. It is not all short passes. The concept is to have predetermined spots for the QB to know where to go to throw depending on the rush. In Bill Walsh's original offense as I read his book with Brian Billick the QB throws to spots typically the RB goes to where the umpire used to be on the field, the TE tucked behind him in the middle, and the WRs wherever their route takes them. The West Coast works with an accurate pro QB in college it is not as successful because the QBs aren't as accurate as pro QBs and incomplete passes/negative plays are a lot harder to overcome in college football than in pro football.

I want as little NFL style offense ran as possible by our coaches. Marrone didn't realize the NFL stuff didn't work till 2012. I have read up on Tim Lester since the other thread and the more I read the less impressed I am. I want him to succeed, but thinking and hoping aren't the same thing.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

West Coast offense doesn't work in college football as well pro football. In pro football the speed of the game is because the same. The gap between the fastest NFL team and slowest NFL team are miniscule.

In college football speed is not equal a lot of the time. What works in college is spreading defenses out and getting the ball in the space and having you speed players turn 5 yard plays into 20+ yard plays with YAC and breaking 1 tackle. Also, QBs have to be able to be dual-threats a lot more in college football. You don't need speed QBs, but with defenses spread typically defenses play a lot of dime coverage and that means fewer LBs on the field.

As long as Syracuse breaks in speed at the WR/RB/LB/DB positions you have a nice foundation.

I can break down the west coast offense but will just break it down very macro style and not in-depth it is a combination of three step, five step drops. It is not all short passes. The concept is to have predetermined spots for the QB to know where to go depending on the rush. The QB throws to spots typically the RB goes to where the umpire used to be on the field, the TE tucked behind him in the middle, and the WRs wherever their route takes them. The West Coast works with an accurate pro QB in college it is not as successful because the QBs aren't as accurate as pro QBs and incomplete passes/negative plays are a lot harder to overcome in college football than in pro football.

I want as little NFL style offense ran as possible by our coaches. Marrone didn't realize the NFL stuff didn't work till 2012. I have read up on Tim Lester since the other thread and the more I read the less impressed I am. I want him to succeed, but thinking and hoping aren't the same thing.

There's a couple of Elmhurst games on YouTube from when Lester was the Head Coach/OC there. If the O is similar to that, this isn't going to be an NFL offense.

 

[Millhouse]

First of all, it's West Coast-influenced. Not the full West Coast experience.

And with all of the jet sweeps and zone reads, the offense will have to be in a shotgun for at least some of the time.

Maybe the offense will work, maybe it won't. (And I'm not getting my hopes up).

But we don't have a QB who has shown he can consistently complete passes, nor a WR corps that has shown they can get open or (ugh) catch a pass.

This is going to be a run heavy team. Let's just hope they can move the chains that way.

someday we'll hire an offensive coach where he knows and we know right off the bat what he's going to do without having to interpret radio interviews

even marrone didn't figure it out until a couple years later.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

someday we'll hire an offensive coach where he knows and we know right off the bat what he's going to do without having to interpret radio interviews

even marrone didn't figure it out until a couple years later.

You making the donations that allows us to hire a known entity?

 

[Millhouse]

You making the donations that allows us to hire a known entity?

just because you know what offense he's going to run doesn't mean he's a known entity.

you can give someone their first shot at it while still knowing what they run.

no one really knows what cubit is trying to do and we're giving his guy his first shot.

the least we could do his promote the unknown entity away from a known offense.

 

[Alsacs]

There's a couple of Elmhurst games on YouTube from when Lester was the Head Coach/OC there. If the O is similar to that, this isn't going to be an NFL offense.

I watched this game.


It was encouraging, but I have been reading about the guy and that was where I wasn't as optimistic.

 

[Millhouse]

Our last OC tried to use someone else's system to disastrous results.

also, are you referring to Mcf**it or Lester here?

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

also, are you referring to Mcf**it or Lester here?

McF***it. I will argue with you to the grave that Lester should be partially to blame for that mess.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I have been reading about the guy and that was where I wasn't as optimistic.

Care to point me to what you were reading? I'd like to see if I get the same reaction.