let this be our offense this year

[TheCusian]

Milly's concern is valid, folks. Short passing doesn't open up anything, especially when you don't have the athletes to turn 5 yard passes into 20 yard gains. I, for one, am tired of relying on 15-play, error-free drives to score. Talent and explosiveness can expand the margin of error. Until we have that, I'm not sure it matters what system we're using.

That doesn't jive with the last half of the year where we threw the ball mid-deep way, way more - and connected on a bunch. Ish in particular had a very good day vs FSU (all on deep pass plays).

Millhouse is throwing a dozen things against the wall based on quotes and stats - instead of actually watching Elmhurst QB's throw all over.

 

[Millhouse]

That doesn't jive with the last half of the year where we threw the ball mid-deep way, way more - and connected on a bunch. Ish in particular had a very good day vs FSU (all on deep pass plays).

Millhouse is throwing a dozen things against the wall based on quotes and stats - instead of actually watching Elmhurst QB's throw all over.

we agree that my posts are based on what Lester says and their offensive statistics.

passing efficiency rankings
2012 79th
2011 39th yay
2010 79th
2009 129th

furco ran for 0.5 yards per carry for his career in this supposedly rich rodriguez like offense

elmhurst had no receivers in the top 100 in yards during that time.

passing yards per game ranking
2012 160th
2011 58th
2010 40th
2009 124th

there are some incredibly pitiful d3 teams, let's not do the percentile thing again.

fixing the passing game at SU should be a priority. hiring a d3 guy with ordinary results who can't describe his offense is not ideal.

your description of it as "throw all over" sounds more like throwing things against the wall than anything i've said

 

[Alsacs]

I have watched more Elmhurst games in the last week than I care to every see again. Those teams were not explosive they ran a spread which atleast is appealing. However, they were long drives and not explosive. That offense will break down against better athletic defenses we will face.

This system takes time and time is something Lester shouldn't have.

 

[TheCusian]

we agree that my posts are based on what Lester says and their offensive statistics. passing efficiency rankings 2012 79th 2011 39th yay 2010 79th 2009 129th furco ran for 0.5 yards per carry for his career in this supposedly rich rodriguez like offense elmhurst had no receivers in the top 100 in yards during that time. passing yards per game ranking 2012 160th 2011 58th 2010 40th 2009 124th there are some incredibly pitiful d3 teams, let's not do the percentile thing again. fixing the passing game at SU should be a priority. hiring a d3 guy with ordinary results who can't describe his offense is not ideal. your description of it as "throw all over" sounds more like throwing things against the wall than anything i've said

I guess we can pick this up after we have some Syracuse game tape. I don't know how you can rail on how he describes his offense without actually watching it. Crazy to me.

We'll see soon. And I can't wait for football. Too much tennis and baseball.

 

[TheCusian]

I have watched more Elmhurst games in the last week than I care to every see again. Those teams were not explosive they ran a spread which atleast is appealing. However, they were long drives and not explosive. That offense will break down against better athletic defenses we will face. This system takes time and time is something Lester shouldn't have.

Right on. At least you've seen it to make that determination. I'm hoping our oline and RB's can take some of the pressure off of the passing game (Hunt running too) - against those speedy athletic defenses. But it's tough sledding against FSU and LSU no matter what.

 

[Millhouse]

I guess we can pick this up after we have some Syracuse game tape. I don't know how you can rail on how he describes his offense without actually watching it. Crazy to me.

We'll see soon. And I can't wait for football. Too much tennis and baseball.

i've watched a little of it. but anyone who can pick through 3 hour youtube videos, more power to you. i could watch all of it and all those facts would still be the same

 

[TheCusian]

i've watched a little of it. but anyone who can pick through 3 hour youtube videos, more power to you. i could watch all of it and all those facts would still be the same

Stats simply don't show you all the info that a game does. How was the defense playing them? What was the score/time when they tried x. How did they adjust at halftime? Were they up a bunch late in games running it out? What was the intent of the play at that down and distance? How did they line up?

I get that you're a stat guy, but it's hard to get a grasp on the offensive philosophy from stats and quotes. We'll probably just have to wait and see, honestly.

 

[Millhouse]

Stats simply don't show you all the info that a game does. How was the defense playing them? What was the score/time when they tried x. How did they adjust at halftime? Were they up a bunch late in games running it out? What was the intent of the play at that down and distance? How did they line up? I get that you're a stat guy, but it's hard to get a grasp on the offensive philosophy from stats and quotes. We'll probably just have to wait and see, honestly.

I posted the stats to simply show that they didn't "throw all over the place"

 

[TheCusian]

I posted the stats to simply show that they didn't "throw all over the place"

And they game I watched, the opponent stacked the box to stop their RB and they threw over the top - all over the place. Deep, shallow, mid, slants, deep ins - to TE, hybrid, WR, RB, etc.

 

[Millhouse]

And they game I watched, the opponent stacked the box to stop their RB and they threw over the top - all over the place. Deep, shallow, mid, slants, deep ins - to TE, hybrid, WR, RB, etc.

That's why you look at numbers

I saw nunes go crazy vs vt too but the numbers show the overall picture

 

[TheCusian]

That's why you look at numbers I saw nunes go crazy vs vt too but the numbers show the overall picture

Sigh. They had the best RB in d3, so they ran a lot. They might do that again when RW44 gets here. If they stack the box, this offense can and will sling it all over the place to take advantage.

Most offense is predicated on this kind of advantage. Play to your strength, force the D to decide.

 

[Millhouse]

Sigh. They had the best RB in d3, so they ran a lot. They might do that again when RW44 gets here. If they stack the box, this offense can and will sling it all over the place to take advantage.

Most offense is predicated on this kind of advantage. Play to your strength, force the D to decide.

you told me i could watch them throw it all over.

 

[Alsacs]

I could be sold if you told Lester was the top offensive mind in D-3. However, we didn't even get the top offensive mind from D-3. Scott Shafer hired a friend from Western Michigan who did a good job after having 4 years worth of experience run his offense.

His offense at Elmhurst wasn't like the Oregon or Baylor of D-3. Watching the film doesn't excite it just tells me to expect a learning curve and I can't wait for all you gotta be patient and give it time threads which will obviously come if we struggle. I hope the offense does good, but nothing on those tapes screamed Rich-Rod.

 

[TheCusian]

you told me i could watch them throw it all over.

Based on the three games I watched - that was the impression. I guess I should have said "they CAN throw it all over" when needed. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.

If you watch more tape, you'd see that it's not just short passing or timing routes. That was the original point. If you just go on what he says or the stats you end up with an incomplete picture. And if you're going to rail on the system, you should probably watch more of it.

 

[TheCusian]

I could be sold if you told Lester was the top offensive mind in D-3. However, we didn't even get the top offensive mind from D-3. Scott Shafer hired a friend from Western Michigan who did a good job after having 4 years worth of experience run his offense.

His offense at Elmhurst wasn't like the Oregon or Baylor of D-3. Watching the film doesn't excite it just tells me to expect a learning curve and I can't wait for all you gotta be patient and give it time threads which will obviously come if we struggle. I hope the offense does good, but nothing on those tapes screamed Rich-Rod.

Top 40 out of 300 is basically top 20 out of 116. But Milly doesn't like that stat.

I think there are pro's and cons to Shafer's hiring practices. Did we get the top guy? Not close. Did we get someone who is capable of doing the job at a high level - we'll see. But if you're going with the "guys Shafer trusts model" and it contributes to recruiting (Rex and RW44 both cited the family feel). Sometimes it's good to go with the guy you trust over the guy you're not sure fits, but hey, he had a great offensive mind.

I don't know why you think it's going to take 4 years. The offense is a system he built at Elmhurst. Any guy you bring in will have x amount of years running x system (unless you're Mcit) and will be better at installing and running it in year 5, then year 1. That's a fact. Also - this is the inherent danger in changing OC's and systems a lot - there is always a hill to climb. Again: true for whomever we'd have brought in.

Trying to inoculate yourself from the "be patient" comments is silly. It's true no matter what, even if we look great in the first 3 games. If you're expecting perfection out of the box with any OC or system - you're probably nuts.

 

[Alsacs]

Top 40 out of 300 is basically top 20 out of 116. But Milly doesn't like that stat.

I think there are pro's and cons to Shafer's hiring practices. Did we get the top guy? Not close. Did we get someone who is capable of doing the job at a high level - we'll see. But if you're going with the "guys Shafer trusts model" and it contributes to recruiting (Rex and RW44 both cited the family feel). Sometimes it's good to go with the guy you trust over the guy you're not sure fits, but hey, he had a great offensive mind.

I don't know why you think it's going to take 4 years. The offense is a system he built at Elmhurst. Any guy you bring in will have x amount of years running x system (unless you're Mc. . . . it) and will be better at installing and running it in year 5, then year 1. That's a fact. Also - this is the inherent danger in changing OC's and systems a lot - there is always a hill to climb. Again: true for whomever we'd have brought in.

Trying to inoculate yourself from the "be patient" comments is silly. It's true no matter what, even if we look great in the first 3 games. If you're expecting perfection out of the box with any OC or system - you're probably nuts.

I don't like saying top 40 out of 300 is top 20 out of 116. We are talking about Division 3. That is like saying the top 40 graduates from Harvard Law School are equal to the top 2 graduates from Syracuse Law School.

Transitive property doesn't apply especially when comparing D-3 to FBS. I am saying 4 years because it took 4 years for the Elmhurst offense to look like a machine. This offense wasn't lighting up D-3 in years 2 and 3. It above average, but that is nothing special.

My last comment I hope never materializes, but I don't think our offense will be good this year.

 

[Millhouse]

Sometimes it's good to go with the guy you trust over the guy you're not sure fits, but hey, he had a great offensive mind.

no way to prove that statement at Syracuse because they never pick the outsider with the offensive mind.

 

[SUFan44]

Top 40 out of 300 is basically top 20 out of 116. But Milly doesn't like that stat.

I think there are pro's and cons to Shafer's hiring practices. Did we get the top guy? Not close. Did we get someone who is capable of doing the job at a high level - we'll see. But if you're going with the "guys Shafer trusts model" and it contributes to recruiting (Rex and RW44 both cited the family feel). Sometimes it's good to go with the guy you trust over the guy you're not sure fits, but hey, he had a great offensive mind.

I don't know why you think it's going to take 4 years. The offense is a system he built at Elmhurst. Any guy you bring in will have x amount of years running x system (unless you're Mc. . . . it) and will be better at installing and running it in year 5, then year 1. That's a fact. Also - this is the inherent danger in changing OC's and systems a lot - there is always a hill to climb. Again: true for whomever we'd have brought in.

Trying to inoculate yourself from the "be patient" comments is silly. It's true no matter what, even if we look great in the first 3 games. If you're expecting perfection out of the box with any OC or system - you're probably nuts.

We have no idea if this is true, because Shafer has not hired anyone outside his tree.

The last guy who did hire a coordinator outside his tree was Doug Marrone, who hired Scott Shafer. Seems to have worked out pretty well.

 

[TheCusian]

I don't like saying top 40 out of 300 is top 20 out of 116. We are talking about Division 3. That is like saying the top 40 graduates from Harvard Law School are equal to the top 2 graduates from Syracuse Law School. Transitive property doesn't apply especially when comparing D-3 to FBS. I am saying 4 years because it took 4 years for the Elmhurst offense to look like a machine. This offense wasn't lighting up D-3 in years 2 and 3. It above average, but that is nothing special. My last comment I hope never materializes, but I don't think our offense will be good this year.

I'll take above average in a heartbeat.

 

[TheCusian]

We have no idea if this is true, because Shafer has not hired anyone outside his tree. The last guy who did hire a coordinator outside his tree was Doug Marrone, who hired Scott Shafer. Seems to have worked out pretty well.

Reed was outside of his tree and was an unknown.

Was coach Smith? Don't remember.

 

[SUFan44]

Reed was outside of his tree and was an unknown.

Was coach Smith? Don't remember.

Coordinator positions matter more than anything.

 

[TheCusian]

Coordinator positions matter more than anything.

Of course. And we're 1-1 there with people he knew.

But to say he hadn't hired anyone outside isn't true.