Lets talk about Perception...

[wfschrec]

Substitute WVU for Temple what is it?

It doesn't have a calculator but I'm sure it would go up ... probably climb into the high 40s

 

[wfschrec]

this would be radically different if it showed OOC SOS - but SU gets penalized for the perceived weakness of the conference slate, while B10/PAC12/B12/SEC can literally play no one OOC and still receive a higher SOS. Given how certain conferences are automatically given high SOS ratings just based on their conference games - 54 is about as good as can be expected. I assume it's the highest ranking among BE teams.

Yes it is the highest of BE teams.

 

[wfschrec]

Yes it is the highest of BE teams.

USF is literally 1 slot behind us at 55 ... playing FSU helps them a lot ... other than that they played no one OOC other than Nevada who has an SOS in triple digits. Although they did choke against Ball St.

 

[sufandu]

this would be radically different if it showed OOC SOS - but SU gets penalized for the perceived weakness of the conference slate, while B10/PAC12/B12/SEC can literally play no one OOC and still receive a higher SOS. Given how certain conferences are automatically given high SOS ratings just based on their conference games - 54 is about as good as can be expected. I assume it's the highest ranking among BE teams.

I would like to know how SOS is calculated. Is it similar to RPI in basketball where it's not just opponent's win/loss but opponent's opponent's win/loss? If so, conference perception may not matter. If it's simply based on rankings of opponents then bias is certainly an element.

 

[SmilinBob]

I would like to know how SOS is calculated. Is it similar to RPI in basketball where it's not just opponent's win/loss but opponent's opponent's win/loss? If so, conference perception may not matter. If it's simply based on rankings of opponents then bias is certainly an element.

I know away games are not included in it, hmmmm, I wonder why?

 

[sufandu]

I know away games are not included in it, hmmmm, I wonder why?

Really? I would have never thought that. That doesn't make sense.

 

[SmilinBob]

Really? I would have never thought that. That doesn't make sense.

Because the money makers don't play them.

 

[Noexcuse]

Yep. When they were added to the Big 10, all you heard nationally was...

1. There are obviously a lot of TV sets in their area.
2. Rutgers hit the lotto.
3. The Big 10 just got worse.

I don't mean this to be a sour grapes post, it was literally all I read. I admittedly didn't check the Rutgers message boards though, so I'm sure it was written somewhere how they were picked because of how good a football program they are.

I'm guessing it wasn't that the B1G picked them but that THEY picked the B1G.

 

[All4SU]

I agree that a little "soft" scheduling can be prudent some years -- particularly when a team is trying to build back up. But scheduling is typically done years in advance. And SU has NOT had overly challenging schedules. Yes, we have scheduled tough OOC games -- but let's face it, Big East games do not create a gauntlet. This year is a great example. Our OOC schedule of USC (BCS/big name, though down this year), Northwestern ( BCS/Better than normal), Minnesota (BCS, but not anything more than a mediocre team), Missouri (BCS, somewhere between Northwestern and Minnesota, and Stony Brook (D1AA). This schedule was really no more challenging than our BE schedule. These are teams we should expect to beat, and WILL beat.

IMO, the Buttgers scheduling method is a big reason why the BE is where it is today. Too many teams that were scheduling soft, and wouldn't challenge themselves out of conference to help build conference identity. Instead, they went the selfish route, so they could get to 7 - 5 and beat some MAC team or second-division BCS team in some crappy bowl.

People can knock SU's scheduling, and there are a lot of BE teams who have benefitted from SU picking up some losses, and we have not been good the last 8-10 years. BUT a big part of why SU is recognized as a brand name is because we went out and played teams like Florida, Michigan, Auburn, Florida State, Notre Dame, TEnnessee, Texas, USC, Ohio State, and others, AND got our share of wins.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Va Tech built their reputation as a dominant program through perception back in the 1990's. Their schedules were as bad a RU's schedules are now. They played a ton of cupcakes and BE bottom dwellers. Their biggest games of the year were Miami, WVU and SU, usually. They were always posting 10 win seasons, but the scheduling sucked. Still, they were looked at as this darling program that won with defense. Until Vick showed up and made them a virtual Top Ten preseason lock for the next decade. All Schiano did was copy the Beamer formula for scheduling. Pile up wins against losers to ensure 8 wins or more and gain respectability through perception.

The problem was, RU is not VaTech and was hurt more by losing to some of these lesser teams.

I'd rather have a moderately difficult schedule, because a loss to USC is better than a loss to Kent State, and an upset of USC has so much more upside than beating a MAC school. I don't want a Murderers Row schedule like we've had before, but I think we're close to a point where we should be playing two legit Top 25 teams every year on our OOC schedule.

Va tech's image was built on the fact that they could beat Miami and we couldn't, other than the McNabb years. After McNabb was gone and Miami got off probation, Va Tech pretty much split with Miami and we couldn't beat them anymore. We still used to split with Va Tech, but because they could beat Miami and we couldn't, we were perceived to have been passed by them as a program.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I agree that a little "soft" scheduling can be prudent some years -- particularly when a team is trying to build back up. But scheduling is typically done years in advance. And SU has NOT had overly challenging schedules. Yes, we have scheduled tough OOC games -- but let's face it, Big East games do not create a gauntlet. This year is a great example. Our OOC schedule of USC (BCS/big name, though down this year), Northwestern ( BCS/Better than normal), Minnesota (BCS, but not anything more than a mediocre team), Missouri (BCS, somewhere between Northwestern and Minnesota, and Stony Brook (D1AA). This schedule was really no more challenging than our BE schedule. These are teams we should expect to beat, and WILL beat.

IMO, the Buttgers scheduling method is a big reason why the BE is where it is today. Too many teams that were scheduling soft, and wouldn't challenge themselves out of conference to help build conference identity. Instead, they went the selfish route, so they could get to 7 - 5 and beat some MAC team or second-division BCS team in some crappy bowl.

People can knock SU's scheduling, and there are a lot of BE teams who have benefitted from SU picking up some losses, and we have not been good the last 8-10 years. BUT a big part of why SU is recognized as a brand name is because we went out and played teams like Florida, Michigan, Auburn, Florida State, Notre Dame, TEnnessee, Texas, USC, Ohio State, and others, AND got our share of wins.

Damn straight, and that's why I kept saying we had to keep playing quality programs, even when we were down. If you don't beat the good teams, you can never come back to prominence. We don't need such a strong OOC schedule once we start in the ACC, because even though some of them are down right now, they have LOTS of name brand teams in their league.

 

[Chip]

Va tech's image was built on the fact that they could beat Miami and we couldn't, other than the McNabb years. After McNabb was gone and Miami got off probation, Va Tech pretty much split with Miami and we couldn't beat them anymore. We still used to split with Va Tech, but because they could beat Miami and we couldn't, we were perceived to have been passed by them as a program.

It also helped that they had a full stadium, one that was very loud and hostile. It looked good on TV. And they always played very well there. No one could win there at night.

The fact that it was always full and loud on a Thursday night didn't hurt them either.

 

[rrlbees]

SU's SOS:

2012 54th overall
2011 48th overall
2010 85th overall
2009 40th overall
2008 37th overall
2007 20th overall
2006 20th overall
2005 45th overall
2004 58th overall
2003 57th overall

Our SOS was overstated all year. It was not ridiculously difficult. Next year is even easier maybe.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[wfschrec]

Our SOS was overstated all year. It was not ridiculously difficult. Next year is even easier maybe.

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I'm just following the numbers based on the SOS formula ... but yes I do agree with that to some degree ... however USC finished strong and I think our schedule was tough enough considering the state of our program. Hell the rest of the BE had a cakewalk schedule compared to ours (sans WVU).

 

[midloviking]

What about the perception of Syracuse vs UCONN? We've put up 7 wins, qualified for a bowl game, and could not be happier.

UCONN has won five, including its last two, and could still qualify for a bowl game, and they've had an awful season.

Funny how that works.

Because they know that their coach has peaked. We (most of us, hopefully) see our coach as improving and thus the potential of our team increasing.