Losing our starting QB mid-season. Are we literally cursed?

[Eric15]

I find it hard to believe that any over P4 program has had as bad of luck than we have over the past decade in terms of losing our starting QB and having it completely derail our season. In 8 out of the past 11 seasons, our starting QB getting hurt has completely ephed the entire season due to not having a serviceable backup.

2014: we started 2-3 with Terrell Hunt, who vacillated between being average and good. He went down midseason, and we had to start AJ Long and Austin Wilson who were not equipped to play at this level at all -- we finished 3-9.

2015: Dungey went down in early November. Zach Mahoney played hard and unfortunately had to deal with playing #8 LSU and #1 Clemson and didn't do anything wrong, but it was obviously a step down from Dungey's talent. We finished 4-8.

2016: Dungey went down at Clemson when we were 4-4. Mahoney and Austin Wilson started the rest of the way -- we didn't win again and finished 4-8.

2017: Dungey went down in early November when we were 4-5. Mahoney and Rex Culpepper started the rest of the way -- we didn't win again and finished 4-8.

2020: Covid year, total disaster QB wise. Some Tommy, some Rex, some Morgan.

2022: We started 6-0 with a healthy Garrett and were an eyelash from one of the biggest wins in program history at Clemson in Game 7. From late October until the rest of the season, we start a combination of CDRW who wasn't functional talent-wise and Garrett who wasn't functional health wise. Lost 6 out of our last 7 games.

2023: We started 4-0 with a healthy Garrett. He takes an awkward shot against Clemson and is never the same the rest of the year. Dysfunctional QB play with Villari and CDRW and Garrett doing in-game back flips. Lost 7 out of our last 9 games.

2025: We start 3-1 with Angeli. Rickie is obviously a massive step down in talent and pocket awareness.

Whether it's Shafer or Dino or Fran, there's just something about SU football coaches that aren't particularly good (with the exception of Tommy/Dungey together and then Tommy/Garrett) of having a #2 who can actually play.

 

[upperdeck]

you can find a ton of teams that struggle when the backups come in as well. But you wont find many who have lost this many over a decade.

 

[Scooch]

The commonality is that most of those cases are Dungey and Schraeder, QBs who played recklessly and took a ton of huge hits.

Needless to say, Angeli doesn’t fit that mold.

But if you’re reliant on QBs who’s M.O. is to hurl themselves all over the field to be successful, then it stands to reason that they’re going to get hurt eventually.

 

[OttosShoes]

No, we're not cursed.

But I'll note this didn't really happen in the Big East. End of the day we're currently a Mid-Pack ACC team that wants to be a front runner ACC team. Killer QB play is a shortcut to get there; we can pull one top tier QB but we don't have the resources or draw or whatever for two. That's pretty much limited to schools that have 80k+ average attendance.

Common denominator of all those injuries has been quarterbacks being called on to do too much; you're always going to risk injury doing that. Even Steve. I know it was an open field injury, but a.) he's was taking all kinds of licks all season, b.) he had to scramble, and c.) it sure does look like it was a compounding issue from the earlier lower leg hit.

 

[upperdeck]

Gt runs the QB to death and he gets pounded every game. Vandy is doing the same thing. Its all a roll of the dice.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

When the Israelites sinned at Mount Sinai, the Lord made them wander the desert for 40 years before leading them to the Promised Land.

It's only been 21 years since we hired GRob.

We're gonna have sand in our underwear for a while longer.

 

[PAcuse]

#firewillhicks!!!


We just might be cursed. Might need to exercise the demons of injuries past next tailgate...

 

[hoopsupstate]

No, we're not cursed.

But I'll note this didn't really happen in the Big East. End of the day we're currently a Mid-Pack ACC team that wants to be a front runner ACC team. Killer QB play is a shortcut to get there; we can pull one top tier QB but we don't have the resources or draw or whatever for two. That's pretty much limited to schools that have 80k+ average attendance.

Common denominator of all those injuries has been quarterbacks being called on to do too much; you're always going to risk injury doing that. Even Steve. I know it was an open field injury, but a.) he's was taking all kinds of licks all season, b.) he had to scramble, and c.) it sure does look like it was a compounding issue from the earlier lower leg hit.

Did McCord even have a limp in any game last year?

 

[Eric15]

Did McCord even have a limp in any game last year?

His most dangerous moment was during the bowl game. Not sure if anyone remembers this but against Washington State there was a play where a defender almost caused his knee to cave but he somehow wiggled out of it. Major close call.

 

[721Comstock]

#firewillhicks!!!


We just might be cursed. Might need to exercise the demons of injuries past next tailgate...

So, like burpees or jumping jacks?

 

[cusefan88]

That Clemson defender landed on Angeli and squashed his leg. Ruined everything!

 

[mustacheovich]

2015 was Hunt as well, another achilles

 

[OttosShoes]

Did McCord even have a limp in any game last year?

It’s a probability thing. Look at the years listed in the op. Once every couple years.

Kyle also didn’t run by choice and made quick reads. He still took some hits. ACC defenders hit hard.

 

[phreddie]

When the Israelites sinned at Mount Sinai, the Lord made them wander the desert for 40 years before leading them to the Promised Land.

It's only been 21 years since we hired GRob.

We're gonna have sand in our underwear for a while longer.

But what about Pat Dye, or Chris Gedney? Don't those set the date back further?

 

[PAcuse]

So, like burpees or jumping jacks?

Yes haha

 

[OrangeXtreme]

But what about Pat Dye, or Chris Gedney? Don't those set the date back further?

The "Sack Mac Pack" started in 1986.

If I can get a ruling on this, maybe we're off the hook.

 

[Dinkyspond]

I find it hard to believe that any over P4 program has had as bad of luck than we have over the past decade in terms of losing our starting QB and having it completely derail our season. In 8 out of the past 11 seasons, our starting QB getting hurt has completely ephed the entire season due to not having a serviceable backup.

2014: we started 2-3 with Terrell Hunt, who vacillated between being average and good. He went down midseason, and we had to start AJ Long and Austin Wilson who were not equipped to play at this level at all -- we finished 3-9.

2015: Dungey went down in early November. Zach Mahoney played hard and unfortunately had to deal with playing #8 LSU and #1 Clemson and didn't do anything wrong, but it was obviously a step down from Dungey's talent. We finished 4-8.

2016: Dungey went down at Clemson when we were 4-4. Mahoney and Austin Wilson started the rest of the way -- we didn't win again and finished 4-8.

2017: Dungey went down in early November when we were 4-5. Mahoney and Rex Culpepper started the rest of the way -- we didn't win again and finished 4-8.

2020: Covid year, total disaster QB wise. Some Tommy, some Rex, some Morgan.

2022: We started 6-0 with a healthy Garrett and were an eyelash from one of the biggest wins in program history at Clemson in Game 7. From late October until the rest of the season, we start a combination of CDRW who wasn't functional talent-wise and Garrett who wasn't functional health wise. Lost 6 out of our last 7 games.

2023: We started 4-0 with a healthy Garrett. He takes an awkward shot against Clemson and is never the same the rest of the year. Dysfunctional QB play with Villari and CDRW and Garrett doing in-game back flips. Lost 7 out of our last 9 games.

2025: We start 3-1 with Angeli. Rickie is obviously a massive step down in talent and pocket awareness.

Whether it's Shafer or Dino or Fran, there's just something about SU football coaches that aren't particularly good (with the exception of Tommy/Dungey together and then Tommy/Garrett) of having a #2 who can actually play.

great spot on analysis, 100 percent accurate rundown of the QB futility beyond the starter

 

[ImperialOrange]

The one constant in all of these is an OLine that's not been good enough. Nassib and McCord stayed healthy as pocket passers with quick releases. Otherwise our "wreckless" QBs have had to run 10 yards on 3rd down way too often and play into contact for first downs vs run OOB or slide and save their bodies.

Castillo is going to make or break Fran and possibly SU football. If he can't get a Cuse oline above average I'm not sure where we can even go from there.

 

[Cusefan69]

The one constant in all of these is an OLine that's not been good enough. Nassib and McCord stayed healthy as pocket passers with quick releases. Otherwise our "wreckless" QBs have had to run 10 yards on 3rd down way too often and play into contact for first downs vs run OOB or slide and save their bodies.

Castillo is going to make or break Fran and possibly SU football. If he can't get a Cuse oline above average I'm not sure where we can even go from there.

Yeah I agree with your thinking. McCord really hid our weak oline his one season with great pocket awareness and quick release. Angeli took some hits and had to run some as well with getting better quickly on releasing quicker. Overall though our oline continues to be a weak link and going into this season if real progress is not made there it will put us in poor shape again "wins wise". Something has to change there.

 

[MSOrange]

The one constant in all of these is an OLine that's not been good enough. Nassib and McCord stayed healthy as pocket passers with quick releases. Otherwise our "wreckless" QBs have had to run 10 yards on 3rd down way too often and play into contact for first downs vs run OOB or slide and save their bodies.

Castillo is going to make or break Fran and possibly SU football. If he can't get a Cuse oline above average I'm not sure where we can even go from there.

Agree. I love this board, but overrating our OL seems like an annual tradition. You'd think we're sending lineman to the NFL like Iowa, Wisconsin or Notre Dame. The good news is players can be coached up with the right coaches. Many of Iowa's OL recruits are not all that highly rated, but they coach them up. Hopefully Castillo is a guy who can do that.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I find it hard to believe that any over P4 program has had as bad of luck than we have over the past decade in terms of losing our starting QB and having it completely derail our season. In 8 out of the past 11 seasons, our starting QB getting hurt has completely ephed the entire season due to not having a serviceable backup.

2014: we started 2-3 with Terrell Hunt, who vacillated between being average and good. He went down midseason, and we had to start AJ Long and Austin Wilson who were not equipped to play at this level at all -- we finished 3-9.

2015: Dungey went down in early November. Zach Mahoney played hard and unfortunately had to deal with playing #8 LSU and #1 Clemson and didn't do anything wrong, but it was obviously a step down from Dungey's talent. We finished 4-8.

2016: Dungey went down at Clemson when we were 4-4. Mahoney and Austin Wilson started the rest of the way -- we didn't win again and finished 4-8.

2017: Dungey went down in early November when we were 4-5. Mahoney and Rex Culpepper started the rest of the way -- we didn't win again and finished 4-8.

2020: Covid year, total disaster QB wise. Some Tommy, some Rex, some Morgan.

2022: We started 6-0 with a healthy Garrett and were an eyelash from one of the biggest wins in program history at Clemson in Game 7. From late October until the rest of the season, we start a combination of CDRW who wasn't functional talent-wise and Garrett who wasn't functional health wise. Lost 6 out of our last 7 games.

2023: We started 4-0 with a healthy Garrett. He takes an awkward shot against Clemson and is never the same the rest of the year. Dysfunctional QB play with Villari and CDRW and Garrett doing in-game back flips. Lost 7 out of our last 9 games.

2025: We start 3-1 with Angeli. Rickie is obviously a massive step down in talent and pocket awareness.

Whether it's Shafer or Dino or Fran, there's just something about SU football coaches that aren't particularly good (with the exception of Tommy/Dungey together and then Tommy/Garrett) of having a #2 who can actually play.

It is worse than that.

2021 there was no injury but our starter got benched for QB2.

2019 our starter got hurt and missed time.

2018 our starter got hurt and missed time.

2015 our starter went down in game one. Dungey was QB2.

2013 our starer got benched for QB2.


So from 2013-2025 (13 seasons) only one year did we not need QB2. The three years prior somehow Nassib missed no time. The three years prior to that we needed QB2 every season. Two of those were due to injury. One was more of a grooming situation. Which means QB2 has had significant PT in 15 of the last 19 seasons.

Yet somehow Fran's plan last year was Michael Johnson as QB2 and this year a bunch of freshmen.

 

[SmilinBob]

It is worse than that.

2021 there was no injury but our starter got benched for QB2.

2019 our starter got hurt and missed time.

2018 our starter got hurt and missed time.

2015 our starter went down in game one. Dungey was QB2.

2013 our starer got benched for QB2.


So from 2013-2025 (13 seasons) only one year did we not need QB2. The three years prior somehow Nassib missed no time. The three years prior to that we needed QB2 every season. Two of those were due to injury. One was more of a grooming situation. Which means QB2 has had significant PT in 15 of the last 19 seasons.

Yet somehow Fran's plan last year was Michael Johnson as QB2 and this year a bunch of freshmen.

Is it possible it was because there was only X amount of money and they thought they had a decent QB2 from LSU? Plus Williams?

 

[sufandu]

It is worse than that.

2021 there was no injury but our starter got benched for QB2.

2019 our starter got hurt and missed time.

2018 our starter got hurt and missed time.

2015 our starter went down in game one. Dungey was QB2.

2013 our starer got benched for QB2.


So from 2013-2025 (13 seasons) only one year did we not need QB2. The three years prior somehow Nassib missed no time. The three years prior to that we needed QB2 every season. Two of those were due to injury. One was more of a grooming situation. Which means QB2 has had significant PT in 15 of the last 19 seasons.

Yet somehow Fran's plan last year was Michael Johnson as QB2 and this year a bunch of freshmen.

2018, Dungey was healthy. He was pulled in the UNC game, and came out early in a game we had a big lead in before going back in when the offense stalled (Western Michigan), but that's about it. It was his other years he got hurt and missed time.

 

[Domedog84]

2018, Dungey was healthy. He was pulled in the UNC game, and came out early in a game we had a big lead in before going back in when the offense stalled (Western Michigan), but that's about it. It was his other years he got hurt and missed time.

FSU? Tommy led us to the win.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

2018, Dungey was healthy. He was pulled in the UNC game, and came out early in a game we had a big lead in before going back in when the offense stalled (Western Michigan), but that's about it. It was his other years he got hurt and missed time.

FSU says hello