Louisville Postgame Thoughts

[Niastri]

Red did not run off Girard nor did he have anything to do with Edwards father and the financial negotiations.

Two fewer things to blame on Red then...

 

[orangecuse]

This. Plus the prior post on Seth spending time with Red. I give coach credit for not lashing out at the guys more. I think he wants to but also realizes he’s trying to get the most out of them. I think Autry may be starting out with the most difficult group to coach he will ever have.

I know folks complain we don’t run any offensive sets or don’t practice things. We do. But these guys…just don’t listen well. Or are all space cadets. It’s a weird group.

Maybe. Here's the the thing though, the majority of "these guys" are the guys that JB stated after recruiting them were his best freshman class EVER assembled. Now, well into their 2nd season here, many can simply dismiss JB's words as...well, let's just say, that 'ol 'JB just says stuff' deal.

Whether this group "doesn't listen" or are "all space cadets" and a "weird group," who knows, perhaps. However, the fact of the matter is these coaches recruited all of them here, a school in Syracuse University that is a P5 program, and the 5th winningest D1 program of all time (inclusive of the 101 wins that were bogus-ly taken away). The coaches all have ownership, responsibility, etc. in this as they were all part of the process in bringing them here, teaching & developing, etc. It's rather convenient, IMO, to place all or most of the onus on the players.

At the end of the day, Red is now the captain of the ship. Perhaps as other posters have alluded to, Red is no longer the "good cop" so to speak, and because of the past relationships he fostered as such, etc. it's just too difficult to overcome & transition to with them? And, because of same, as some have also mentioned, it may be necessary for a complete overhaul of the roster.

Perhaps, this is the best way in moving forward, in the hope of ultimately getting back to the once very proud state of basketball that was Syracuse University, one in which many of us had become accustomed to.

 

[Bulldog04]

This is our best record through 23 games since Buddy’s junior season. What were your expectations this year? Did you expect Red to have us as a top 25 team in year 1?

Yeah and nobody but SWC75 pointed out how hard this schedule has been. There were so many cupcake games in the past. This was not a year of that at all. The criticism is wild. And when they win “they don’t win by enough”. If they lose “red can’t coach and is in over his head”. Why is it always something ? Why can’t we be happy for wins when they win? I’ve said this before- if they finish as a .500 team this year I treat that as a success. Anything about that is a major success. And they have a chance to do that.

 

[djcon57]

He went and got big name recruit clone of the guy he thought he might lose and we are sitting here today wanting the ball to be taken out of their hands for copeland.

Everyone just shrugs and says you haaave to take starling. I like starling. But given mintz, he's the last guy you need.

It all goes back to mintz, I didn't know why people liked him from the start

I hear you, but look at the timeline. It was 50/50 at best that Mintz was coming back

 

[Cusefan0307]

We were going to take JJ I think even if it was guaranteed that Judah was staying.
I'm pretty sure Westry was the guy we took as a Judah hedge so I guess it's a good thing Judah did come back.

 

[690West]

Can someone answer this rules question? What happens if the refs overturned the goaltending call?

Would the ball go to the team who showed clear possession on the whistle (Maliq)?

Or, do they just use possession arrow to award possession? (That would’ve been Louisville )

 

[Cusefan0307]

Can someone answer this rules question? What happens if the refs overturned the goaltending call?

Would the ball go to the team who showed clear possession on the whistle (Maliq)?

Or, do they just use possession arrow to award possession?

Louisville had the arrow so it would have went to them.

 

[kingtidge]

Maybe that's what he really thought. Maybe every half of basketball shouldn't be an agenda on Red's coaching ability and future as the leader of the program.

Of course it's what he really thinks...

Red was part of his staff at SC and I'm sure he likely has a very high opinion of him.

Does that make him a little less objective on the topic? Probably a little, but that's OK.

I'm not sure what the "agendas" are you are talking about.

Basketball coaches are scrutinized by their fans all over the country on message boards and social media... Good, bad and ugly...

 

[Cuse181]

Not true at all.

The only guys that were brought in entirely on Red's watch were:

Westry, McLeod, Starling and Cuffe. The first three were very high potential with low floors along with injury risk. We knew they weren't perfect coming in. But even then, nobody really anticipated Westry being out of the season, that McLeod would have a season ending injury and that Starling's shot would be off for much of the season. I haven't seen enough of Cuffe to say... He's played in 22 games, but is averaging 3 minutes. He's been good and bad, but also is coming off two years of injury. Red's fault?

First off, starling's shot was off all of last season, if you didn't see that coming then you were watching a different player. McLeod struggled on a terrible Florida state team and was never going to be a good fit for a man-to-man defense, that should've been enough to scare us away from him, even before looking into the fact he had 1 good offensive game last year. As for Cuffe, he was a shot in the dark, I don't blame red for missing on him, but he is the kind of the guy to take a flyer on AFTER all the team's weaknesses are addressed.

Everybody else on the roster is from JB, even though Red was the lead recruiter, the recruits were JB's final choice in the end.

As for the holdovers:

It's hard to say if Red blew it with Williams, but maybe it was time to find a replacement last season? I personally was very excited that he stayed, I thought he was going to turn the corner and become a star. Is that on Williams or Red Autry? We won't know till we see him with 10 more difficult players. Right now Williams is a sample of one.

Benny seldomly showed star power outside of a couple dunks, and he really never showed that he was capable of becoming a slasher and yet we assumed he was just going to figure it out after two years of not showing any growth in that regard? It's not like red wasn't in practice with him everyday. You didn't need to cut him loose, but you needed to bring in someone who actually displayed the skill set you wish he had.

If Red deserves blame for Williams, he deserves credit for the amazing evolution of Brown's game. Brown's play is absolutely the highlight of this season.

Brown has been good, brown was also good last year, he is a good player.

Red has done a pretty good job with Bell, Mintz, and Copeland. They are all better versions of themselves this season. All flawed, but doing pretty well for who they are... This team would be really good if Copeland and Mintz could shoot and if Bell were a lockdown defender/rebounder. But those players are all top 10 recruits if their flaws didn't exist. Is it Red's fault we couldn't recruit top 10 recruits? I don't know, it's looking like he recruited a top 20 one in Freeman in his first attempt.

Bell still can't defend and still cant rebound. Copeland is paying more under control, kudos. Mintz is the same exact player, he scores a bit more because no one else on the team can.

Taylor's shooting is busted... He had a reputation as a shooter in high school, now he's an undersized PF who isn't asked to shoot. Is that the player's limitations or bad coaching? I suspect they figured out that Taylor couldn't ever get his flatfooted push shot off and tried a higher release jump shot. Maybe Taylor eventually starts making shots.

Hard to know what's going to happen with Carey. Redshirt last year, injury the year before that, COVID the year before that. And he's shown flashes of being good. We'll see. Red's fault?

Hima can barely move. Red's fault?

Hima couldnt move last year, or the year before that. Why would that have changed. Better yet, why did you need him on a team with McLeod, Carey, patterson, and Brown. And let us pretend red did think Carey wouldn't look like a lost dog on the highway when on the court this year, that just means you really didnt need Hima.

Patterson was recruited to be a redshirt. We have no knowledge of what he can eventually be. I'm glad Red didn't run him off, even if he doesn't think he can ever play. You shouldn't do that to a guy before he even gets here.

I think Red's biggest failures may have been running off Girard and failing to keep Edwards.

If we had Girard in the rotation instead of Cuffe, how many more games do we win? Girard had some frustrating moments, but he's a good to great shooter who could help handle the ball.

Edwards goes without saying. Trade him for McLeod and we'd have been competitive in Maui and a lock to be top half of the ACC (assuming he didn't get injured here, a big if).

I have no clue if Girard would've led to more wins, but it certainly would've resulted in less blowouts. Cuffe hasn't added any tangible value to the team this year, that's why he is only playing 3 mpg. He is maybe a plus defender on the perimeter, but he has no inside or turn around game and he isn't really that great of a 3 pt shooter despite his "reputation." JG gave you a realistic option to play opposite Judah early on when JJ couldn't shoot, that would have taken pressure off Judah and allow more room to operate down low, also would have allowed Bell to be matched with the third best defender versus the 2nd. Him and JJ are likely the same level of defender so there is only upside there.

What I dont understand is how people can say "well red has a flawed team" and just completely ignore that they didn't try to fill the holes on the roster. Where is the two-way forward Syracuse has been missing for 3 years? Where is the lights out 3pt. shooter that they knew they were losing in JG3? If both those guys came on campus but failed to reach expectations? So be it, but neither of those needs were addressed.

 

[Millhouse]

I don't think they are that similar actually. JJ isn't a ball stopper and is clearly better from deep.

Similar size, scorers not shooters, not point guards

 

[kingtidge]

Maybe. Here's the the thing though, the majority of "these guys" are the guys that JB stated after recruiting them were his best freshman class EVER assembled. Now, well into their 2nd season here, many can simply dismiss JB's words as...well, let's just say, that 'ol 'JB just says stuff' deal.

Whether this group "doesn't listen" or are "all space cadets" and a "weird group," who knows, perhaps. However, the fact of the matter is these coaches recruited all of them here, a school in Syracuse University that is a P5 program, and the 5th winningest D1 program of all time (inclusive of the 101 wins that were bogus-ly taken away). The coaches all have ownership, responsibility, etc. in this as they were all part of the process in bringing them here, teaching & developing, etc. It's rather convenient, IMO, to place all or most of the onus on the players.

Bell basically admitted as much in his post-game interview... that he spaces out on defense and in rebounding situations way too much... and that Red has been on him about it... and that's what has hindered him from being a complete player... (paraphrasing what Bell said)

He was definitely better last night on both fronts (tho not great)... and, of course, was also shooting lights-out on O.

Red did yank him at one point (after a stand-around when he should have went for the rebound I think) and the camera panned to the bench and Red was in his grill as Bell sat, but the exchange looked positive with Bell nodding... no slunked back in chair with annoyed look for being yanked that we have seen in the past from him.

Anyways, I thought Bell's attitude and effort (on the whole) was real positive last night... and you definitely couldn't say that for a number of prior games this year with him. Hopefully, a light has gone ON for him and it continues.

Our defense (as a team) was still really rough last night and was interesting Red went with so much zone for a large part of the game... we couldn't stop Louisville and they couldn't stop us... and we basically went back and forth, shot for shot with them, and we ended up the couple extra we needed for the W.

 

[5OutFred]

The criticism is wild. And when they win “they don’t win by enough”. If they lose “red can’t coach and is in over his head”.

There's obviously nuance and fair criticism to getting blown out quite a few times as being more consequential to program growth than a competitive, narrow loss. But with how evidently flawed this roster is and the internal team drama, Red is definitely getting the most out of this group that he can.

We'll see how the roster develops, but exciting things ahead for Year 2 IMO.

 

[FrancoPizza]

it may be necessary for a complete overhaul of the roster.

Perhaps, this is the best way in moving forward, in the hope of ultimately getting back to the once very proud state of basketball that was Syracuse University, one in which many of us had become accustomed to.

How the current players would acclimate should have factored in to the decision to hire from within.

If Red wants to stick around in Syracuse for awhile, he needs to shed every remnant of the old guard. Any current player that doesn't fit Red's new world order needs to go, and that includes portalees from last year. This also assumes Red has fully transitioned mentally from being the players' friend and to being their "parent".

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

But how many of players he was 'handed' had Red as their primary recruiter?

JB decided who he could and couldn’t recruit.

 

[orangecuse]

How the current players would acclimate should have factored in to the decision to hire from within.

If Red wants to stick around in Syracuse for awhile, he needs to shed every remnant of the old guard. Any current player that doesn't fit Red's new world order needs to go, and that includes portalees from last year. This also assumes Red has fully transitioned mentally from being the players' friend and to being their "parent".

Well...yes...but at this point, it is what it is.

We all knew there'd be growing pains to deal with while learning on the job as a 1st time head coach.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

He recruited these guys, he coached these guys, he chose to keep these guys and not solve the biggest issues from last year through portal. He had an entire portal period to push out guys who couldn't compete and bring in better talent. Not a single part of that is on JB. The JB excuse would've worked before the portal, not anymore.

Who do you think was chomping at the bit to come play for a first year coach installing a new system. That’s why he got the guys he got.
People have an over inflated opinion of where Syracuse is on the national landscape.
If all the guys came to play for SU that people think SU should have landed, there would be no teams to play against, due to lack of players.

 

[pearl31]

just want two more wins now, don't care how or who against, then it's reset time

never seen such an unappealing 94 points scored

 

[orangecuse]

just want two more wins now, don't care how or who against, then it's reset time

never seen such an unappealing 94 points scored

After the last two games/losses to the powerhouses the like of BC and Wake, I was in full Maximus viewing mode last night.

 

[Bayside44]

Can someone answer this rules question? What happens if the refs overturned the goaltending call?

Would the ball go to the team who showed clear possession on the whistle (Maliq)?

Or, do they just use possession arrow to award possession? (That would’ve been Louisville )

The ACC show after said possession arrow.

 

[Orangeman]

I'm kind of regretting using such a term.

You'll need to Google it or just use the gif in this thread.

I was once in a youth sports org meeting and our uniforms sponsor was explaining how they'd assign all our 80+ players a number for their uniforms for the season.

She said that most leagues prefer that they skip the numbers 1 and 69, and asked if we'd like to do the same. I was just finishing responding "sure, whatever other leagues are doing is fine with us..." when another board member woman blurts out "I can understand why not #1, but why not 69?"

I had to say we're not talking about that here but we can do that later at the bar

 

[swish7]

JB decided who he could and couldn’t recruit.

stop blaming JB

this is Red's team now

he recruited these dudes

 

[CousCuse]

JB decided who he could and couldn’t recruit.

Then how come when Hopkins was here the recruiting was so much different.?

 

[Bulldog04]

Then how come when Hopkins was here the recruiting was so much different.?

JB was 10 years younger. Don’t think anyone understands how little he recruited the last 5 years. He made the coaches bring the kids to campus to see him because he wasn’t going on the road. He also told them no 90% of the time when the assts wanted to recruit certain kids. When hopkins was here JB never said no

 

[SWC75]

JB decided who he could and couldn’t recruit.

JB always said initial contacts were made with his assistants and that he was the 'closer' once his assistants convince him that we needed to get that kid. It wasn't JB making all the decisions and sending his minions out.

 

[CousCuse]

JB was 10 years younger. Don’t think anyone understands how little he recruited the last 5 years. He made the coaches bring the kids to campus to see him because he wasn’t going on the road. He also told them no 90% of the time when the assts wanted to recruit certain kids. When hopkins was here JB never said no

Of course he was going to say no 90% of the time, you only have a couple of spots fill. It would seem like under the process you put forward, the assistant coaches did the initial targeting and vetting of prospective recruits. Look at the additions this year, same type players.