Love the Banners

[pfister1]

Good Job getting them posted!

 

[zls44]

As a UConn fan, I could take an easy shot...but they look nice.

 

[BlackKnight76]

As a UConn fan, I could take an easy shot...but they look nice.

If Kentucky (or Kansas...one of those two) claims their Helms Championships, then why can't we?

 

[zls44]

If Kentucky (or Kansas...one of those two) claims their Helms Championships, then why can't we?

I know UNC claims them as well.

 

[DeGrozz]

If Kentucky (or Kansas...one of those two) claims their Helms Championships, then why can't we?

I just don't like the idea of claiming two championships appointed by a baker who was an SU alum. It seems kinda corny.

That's just me though.

 

[sutomcat]

I just don't like the idea of claiming two championships appointed by a baker who was an SU alum. It seems kinda corny.

That's just me though.

The NC teams named retroactively were apparently actually chosen by Bill Schroeder, who co-founded the Helms Foundation with Paul Helms, a billionaire executive who made his fortune in the baking industry. He did this after consulting with coaches and sportswriters (they called it an expert panel). The retoractive choices were made in 1936. The Helms Foundation continued to independently name NCs until the 1980s.

It is common for schools that were named Helms National Champions to publicize this. Syracuse has two large banners honoring its two Helms NC teams. After googling for 15 minutes, I found many schools that embrace the Helms Chamionships they hold...

UNC:

Kansas:

Pitt:

Pennsylvania:

Your 1920 national champion Penn Quakers​

Washington State:

Here is a good article that talks about the Helms Foundation, how it came about and how teams were named. In modern times, statistical modeling systems have been developed to rate teams in a consistent manner, based on things like strength of schedule, quality wins, etc. The article shows where models developed by Premo and Porretta independently confirm that Syracuse was the best team in the country in the years it was named NC by the Helms Foundation.

Helms Foundation NCs aren't the same as NCAA championships and are labeled differently. This is understood by anyone with a basic knowledge of college basketball. The fact is that Syracuse dominated college basketball in those years and has been independently confirmed as being the best team in the country in those years by multiple independent sources.

You are free to consider someone else the national champion in those years if you like.

 

[realorange]

Just make sure you can rearrange things to add more.

 

[DeGrozz]

The NC teams named retroactively were apparently actually chosen by Bill Schroeder, who co-founded the Helms Foundation with Paul Helms, a billionaire executive who made his fortune in the baking industry. He did this after consulting with coaches and sportswriters (they called it an expert panel). The retoractive choices were made in 1936. The Helms Foundation continued to independently name NCs until the 1980s.

It is common for schools that were named Helms National Champions to publicize this. Syracuse has two large banners honoring its two Helms NC teams. After googling for 15 minutes, I found many schools that embrace the Helms Chamionships they hold...

UNC:

Kansas:

Pitt:

Pennsylvania:

Your 1920 national champion Penn Quakers​

Washington State:

Here is a good article that talks about the Helms Foundation, how it came about and how teams were named. In modern times, statistical modeling systems have been developed to rate teams in a consistent manner, based on things like strength of schedule, quality wins, etc. The article shows where models developed by Premo and Porretta independently confirm that Syracuse was the best team in the country in the years it was named NC by the Helms Foundation.

Helms Foundation NCs aren't the same as NCAA championships and are labeled differently. This is understood by anyone with a basic knowledge of college basketball. The fact is that Syracuse dominated college basketball in those years and has been independently confirmed as being the best team in the country in those years by multiple independent sources.

You are free to consider someone else the national champion in those years if you like.

My post was more toungue-in-cheek than you took it, but I think you bring up some good points for discussion about the Helm's NCs.

One of the reasons that I don't like the titles is, as you said, anyone with a basic knowledge of college basketball knows that a Helm's championship isn't the same as a NCAA championship, but teams keep displaying them like they are. The reason that I think they are 'corny' is how they are displayed by so many schools. I like that Syracuse clearly has the banners in the Dome labeled as 'Helm's National Championships', but the emphasis in the Dome is on the 2003 title. It's not like that everywhere though. Kansas displays the same banner for the Helms that they display for their NCAA Tournament thriller over Memphis. UNC displays the same banner for the Helms as they do their tournament win over undefeated Illinois. I think that is ridiculous and 'corny'.

In my opinion, statistics in basketball can be used to give you a pretty good idea of who's a top 5, top 10, in the 10-20 range, etc, but they shouldn't be used to grant or claim national championships. If there was no true national champion at the time, I say let it be. Going back and determining a paper champion that's not recognized by the NCAA, to me, is pointless.

On a side note, was Syracuse really dominating basketball back then? I would have figured most people would say Phog and Kansas dominated the twenties in college basketball, but I really don't know...

 

[sutomcat]

Syracuse wasn't the most dominant team every year back then, but they were in the 2 years that they were named national champs.

I have seen breakdowns of college basketball programs sorted by victories by decade, and I know SU was in the top 5 range in the 1910s and 1920s. Not far off that in the 1930s as well. We were consistently very good to outstanding.

The reason Syracuse is in the top 5 all time in college basketball victories isn't solely because of the incredible job done by JB. Lew Andreas had a terrific record during the long run he had as head coach. He is also in the college basketball hall of fame as a coach. Edmund Dollard and Fred Lewis were two of the best college coaches of their eras as well.

 

[OttoMets]

Love the banners. I wish the Dome had more uniformity in the championship banners; these three would be an improvement from the exisiting 1918 and 1926 team photo banners, the awful 2003 Boeheim/Anthony/McNamara photo banner, and the superfluous 2003 national champions banner.

 

[zls44]

From the article:

"If schools want to recognize their teams by mentioning the Helms titles and hanging banners, that's their right and prerogative. In fact I believe they certainly should recognize and celebrate the accomplishments of past teams, since most fans of schools would never know about them unless they're mentioned somewhere. But in doing so, schools should be accurate by at least noting that the award is from the Helms Foundation, and preferably provide additional background information about who and how the choices were made, including recognizing the fact that many of the choices were made years or even decades after the fact.

To suggest or infer that these titles are synonymous with National Championships, as they are known today, is disingenuous at best. This is especially true when dubious assumptions and unsupported claims are used to support this theory or to make Schroeder's picks more important or authoritative than they actually were at the time."

I respect that SU/you guys designate them as different. I think UNC pretends they're the same because they're competing with Duke, and KU does it because that way people don't realize that, for all their history, they don't really have THAT many titles.

 

[alexd.]

From the article:

"If schools want to recognize their teams by mentioning the Helms titles and hanging banners, that's their right and prerogative. In fact I believe they certainly should recognize and celebrate the accomplishments of past teams, since most fans of schools would never know about them unless they're mentioned somewhere. But in doing so, schools should be accurate by at least noting that the award is from the Helms Foundation, and preferably provide additional background information about who and how the choices were made, including recognizing the fact that many of the choices were made years or even decades after the fact.

To suggest or infer that these titles are synonymous with National Championships, as they are known today, is disingenuous at best. This is especially true when dubious assumptions and unsupported claims are used to support this theory or to make Schroeder's picks more important or authoritative than they actually were at the time."

I respect that SU/you guys designate them as different. I think UNC pretends they're the same because they're competing with Duke, and KU does it because that way people don't realize that, for all their history, they don't really have THAT many titles.

Yep...Connecticut has the same number of national championships as Kansas.

 

[EastCoast2]

KU does it because that way people don't realize that, for all their history, they don't really have THAT many titles.

Thanks in part to G-Mac, Carmelo and Co.