Lydon at 3 is horrible

[AZOrange]

This is a pretty glaring weakness in his game. He has great hands, good athlete, can shoot, and is smart. But its looking painfully obvious he can't create his own.

Something to work on for his junior year!

 

[CusefanATL]

Unrelated q: but what's the breakdown of whites shooting first half v second half? Seems like he can't hit a shot in the second

why just the whites?

(JOKING PEOPLE)

 

[tbonezone]

i remember last night one sequence in particular where lydon at the 5 charged out the wing to contest a shot and left the middle wide open.
when you're asked to cover several different positions your defensive responsibilities can get muddled. we can't have the middle uncontested ever.

 

[omniorange]

Seems to me the cure to his inability to score as the 3 is that he needs to take and make the same mid-range jump shots Robey and TT do. Instead he is taking wild threes, dumb drives to the basket, and horrible close to the basket shots. He's smart. JB is smart. They will get this figured out.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[SUskibum]

Seems to me the cure to his inability to score as the 3 is that he needs to take and make the same mid-range jump shots Robey and TT do. Instead he is taking wild threes, dumb drives to the basket, and horrible close to the basket shots. He's smart. JB is smart. They will get this figured out.

Cheers,
Neil

I believe the main concern is that Robey and TT are being guarded by PF and Lydon is often being covered by a SF. Most SF are capable of sticking with Lydon away from the rim, 3pt shot or midrange. As we saw last year, most PFs are not capable of staying with him away from the rim.

Our best 5 to my eyes so far has been any 2 of the guards plus, white, Lydon, and a center. Lydon is rebounding at 1.5x the rate of Robey so I am not interested in hearing that argument. I love him as a great teammate but he is not one of the best 7 on this team.

 

[omniorange]

And how many small forwards are 6'9", even on good teams? Shouldn't he be able to go over the top them with one quick step back move? He has a far superior shooting stroke than Robey. Andrew White goes two steps into a drive, stops, steps back and shoots over smaller guards. I would think Lydon should be able to do the same. Instead he seems to insist on driving all the way to basket or gives up on the drive and passes back out. Right now he is being a bit mule-headed imho, but he'll adjust. Like I said, he's smart.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Cuse'91]

I liked the use of Lydon as a 3 when they had DC2 playing high/low with him, need to have Lydon back to the basket against smaller opposing 3s...

 

[SUskibum]

Guys, the reason he can't back down a small forward in the paint is because he has the other teams PF and C in the paint because Robey nor our centers can pull their guy out of there. That creates a lot of congestion, which we have seen with other Cuse teams that struggle to shoot, everyone just sags the middle.

Also, you will excuse Lydon if he can't "shake" a 6'5" small forward. Andrew white creates space because he is smaller and quicker, that is not Lydon's strength. To me Lydon has 3 great offensive skills, of which 2 are taken away when we put him at the three.

1. He is a tremendous spot up shooter. He is not able to get space out there when a SF is in his grill. You could say shoot over him, but that is still a difficult shot when someone is so closely guarding you.

2. He is a decently skilled in the paint. He is not able to get enough space to operate in the paint when he plays along a PF and C who can't pull their man away from the rim.

3. He is a good offensive rebounder and good at finishing those rebounds. He is still able to do this, and this is where 90% of his production comes when he has been at the 3 based on my observations.

 

[Cuse'91]

So tell me in what other bb program in the nation Lydon jumps to the nba as a one and done? Pitt is getting a 2nd 1st team all acc year from Michael Young, but we get 1 year of Ennis, and 2yrs of Lydon? This ridiculousness needs to stop; our recruiting can't cover these one and done checks we are writing... Stop playing guys 35mins per game...

 

[omniorange]

Guys, the reason he can't back down a small forward in the paint is because he has the other teams PF and C in the paint because Robey nor our centers can pull their guy out of there. That creates a lot of congestion, which we have seen with other Cuse teams that struggle to shoot, everyone just sags the middle.

Also, you will excuse Lydon if he can "shake" a 6'5" small forward. Andrew white creates space because he is smaller and quicker, that is not Lydon's strength. To me Lydon has 3 great offensive skills, of which 2 are taken away when we put him at the three.

1. He is a tremendous spot up shooter. He is not able to get space out there when a SF is in his grill. You could say shoot over him, but that is still a difficult shot when someone is so closely guarding you.

2. He is a decently skilled in the paint. He is not able to get enough space to operate in the paint when he plays along a PF and C who can't pull their man away from the rim.

3. He is a good offensive rebounder and good at finishing those rebounds. He is still able to do this, and this is where 90% of his production comes when he has been at the 3 based on my observations.

Agree with most of the above. But the solution isn't to exclusively play him at the 4/5 either. This isn't last year when we only had Lydon, Roberson (who we all dreaded when he took the medium range shots then that he is making this year), and Coleman (who wasn't at full strength most of the year and now he is). Add in TT and Chukwu and Lydon is going to have to play at least a third of his minutes at the 3 - pure and simple. And if he can't, then he isn't the player we believe him to be.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[orangefan13]

jb said in the pressor we are not doing a good job getting him the ball in the post for what its worth.

I like the idea of Battle and white on the floor together late in the half, it gives both pg's a chance to fight for who is the better scorer and a chance to tire out opponents. that half. While it wouldn't be great for ball handling the idea of battle at the one some games in the first half could possibly create some good things and get opposing pg's in foul trouble.

 

[SUskibum]

Agree with most of the above. But the solution isn't to exclusively play him at the 4/5 either. This isn't last year when we only had Lydon, Roberson (who we all dreaded when he took the medium range shots then that he is making this year), and Coleman (who wasn't at full strength most of the year and now he is). Add in TT and Chukwu and Lydon is going to have to play at least a third of his minutes at the 3 - pure and simple. And if he can't, then he isn't the player we believe him to be.

Cheers,
Neil

Just consider one more thing if you really want him playing 1/3 of his minutes at the '3'.

Every minute Lydon plays at the '3', you are making the explicit decision to play Robey or TT instead of one of Battle, White, Gillon, or Howard. When Lydon plays at the '4', then 3 of those players get to be on the court. When Lydon is at the '3', then only 2 of them get on the court.

Personally I would rather have 3 of Gillon/White/Battle/Howard plus Lydon rather than have 2 of Gillon/White/Battle/Howard plus Lydon AND Robey/TT.

Not only is Lydon's skill set more valuable at the '4', but it also means we have more overall talent on the floor since all 4 of Gillon/Howard/Battle/White contribute more than Robey imo.

I think 20 minutes at the 4 plus 10 minutes at the 5 and a couple minutes at the '3' (for defensive scenarios) is my ideal scenario.

But as you mentioned earlier, JB is smart, whatever he comes up with has a high likelihood of being the correct decision.

 

[omniorange]

Just consider one more thing if you really want him playing 1/3 of his minutes at the '3'.

Every minute Lydon plays at the '3', you are making the explicit decision to play Robey or TT instead of one of Battle, White, Gillon, or Howard. When Lydon plays at the '4', then 3 of those players get to be on the court. When Lydon is at the '3', then only 2 of them get on the court.

Personally I would rather have 3 of Gillon/White/Battle/Howard plus Lydon rather than have 2 of Gillon/White/Battle/Howard plus Lydon AND Robey/TT.

Not only is Lydon's skill set more valuable at the '4', but it also means we have more overall talent on the floor since all 4 of Gillon/Howard/Battle/White contribute more than Robey imo.

I think 20 minutes at the 4 plus 10 minutes at the 5 and a couple minutes at the '3' (for defensive scenarios) is my ideal scenario.

But as you mentioned earlier, JB is smart, whatever he comes up with has a high likelihood of being the correct decision.

We can play this game a different way as well, Lydon at the 4 likely means either Coleman or Chukwu at center. And they are our two weakest offensive players. And to my eyes, White actually struggled in the second half when he was playing more SF than SG. Did much better offensively when he was SG in both of the last two games.

Of course, the entire issue could be resolved if TT doesn't get better defensively by the time ACC action comes around. But I, myself, will be rooting that doesn't happen. I like the depth we have, and think Lydon playing about 10 minutes each at the 5, 4, and 3 is fine.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[SUskibum]

We can play this game a different way as well, Lydon at the 4 likely means either Coleman or Chukwu at center. And they are our two weakest offensive players. And to my eyes, White actually struggled in the second half when he was playing more SF than SG. Did much better offensively when he was SG in both of the last two games.

Of course, the entire issue could be resolved if TT doesn't get better defensively by the time ACC action comes around. But I, myself, will be rooting that doesn't happen. I like the depth we have, and think Lydon playing about 10 minutes each at the 5, 4, and 3 is fine.

Cheers,
Neil

I understand where you are coming from, but I think we will just have to agree to disagree here.

I love our offense with Lydon at the 5 and I love our defense with Lydon at the 3, but I prefer our balance (offense/defense/rebounding) with Lydon at the 4.

I guess I just don't think we pick up enough extra stops to make up for the reduced offensive production in the Lydon at the 3 scenario. I wish Lydon had Melo's skills but we will have to settle for what he does have

Good news is we will have a great season regardless of Lydon's minute distribution!

LGO!SUball

 

[Dave85]

By march Lydon will be on fire from 3. The kid is a total stud. Keep the faith!

 

[realorange]

I understand where you are coming from, but I think we will just have to agree to disagree here.

I love our offense with Lydon at the 5 and I love our defense with Lydon at the 3, but I prefer our balance (offense/defense/rebounding) with Lydon at the 4.

I guess I just don't think we pick up enough extra stops to make up for the reduced offensive production in the Lydon at the 3 scenario. I wish Lydon had Melo's skills but we will have to settle for what he does have

Good news is we will have a great season regardless of Lydon's minute distribution!

LGO!SUball

His offensive production will increase when the guards get him the ball more often and then he starts making a higher percentage of his opportunities.

He will do fine in the 3 and 5. We have the 4 taken care of.

 

[themorey]

I would like to see Lydon setting screens for AW3 on the perimeter. AW3 doesn't need a lot of space to get his shot off and that could drag Lydon's man to hedge leaving Lydon open for a spot up 3. That was his bread and butter last year.

 

[zhanjuzi]

Just consider one more thing if you really want him playing 1/3 of his minutes at the '3'.

Every minute Lydon plays at the '3', you are making the explicit decision to play Robey or TT instead of one of Battle, White, Gillon, or Howard. When Lydon plays at the '4', then 3 of those players get to be on the court. When Lydon is at the '3', then only 2 of them get on the court.

Personally I would rather have 3 of Gillon/White/Battle/Howard plus Lydon rather than have 2 of Gillon/White/Battle/Howard plus Lydon AND Robey/TT.

Not only is Lydon's skill set more valuable at the '4', but it also means we have more overall talent on the floor since all 4 of Gillon/Howard/Battle/White contribute more than Robey imo.

I think 20 minutes at the 4 plus 10 minutes at the 5 and a couple minutes at the '3' (for defensive scenarios) is my ideal scenario.

But as you mentioned earlier, JB is smart, whatever he comes up with has a high likelihood of being the correct decision.

Nice analysis but I believe once we hit the stronger more physical teams in the ACC, we will need Roberson's beast mode on the offensive boards as well.

 

[tbonezone]

i don't want to see A-TREY at the 3. he belongs in the backcourt imo. and i think think TYLER is out of position at the 5.