Marrone & Gross being taken to task on sports radio

[Orangello]

Actually the one significant positive in DM's decision to close practices is that no one is subjected to reading Opera Man's drivel.

 

[Orangeyes]

I suspect that Bud rarely if ever attends spring practice.

I know I have never seen him there.

Eyes? Extreme? Go? Tomcat?

Never, in fact Bud and Lerch have often said they are not in the least interested in football until the season starts. Spring football practice? Come on folks!

 

[Scooch]

Agree 100%, I dont know where some on here get the idea that the casual fan is suddenly going to rush back to the dome because were playing GTech or Virginia at Noon on a Saturday in October most non diehards couldnt seperate the ACC from the Big East in terms of stature if there life depended on it.

No one says that. Well, no one with a brain in their head.

Wow, people really are having a hard time separating all the various things that are being bitched about. It's all become some Ronnie Spector-like Wall of Whiny Sound.

I'll start with attendance... the only way crowds will increase is if the team wins more. Bottom line, end of story.

Now, if you look at SU crowds in the 80s and 90s, we would draw in the low-to-mid 40s on average, and then spike into the upper-40s for marquee games. Simply put, there has been 1 marquee Big East team since the new lineup came about in 2005: West Virginia. No one gave a rat's patootee about Cincy, UL, USF, Rutgers, UConn.

Will SU draw 48K for a 3-6 team playing a 5-4 Wake Forest? Of course not. But will we draw that for a 6-3 SU team playing a #5 Florida State, or a #10 Clemson, or a #15 NC State... historical evidence suggests we will. The combination of being good ourselves and playing attractive conference opponents is much more likely to spur attendance in the ACC. That's the argument, and I think it's a sound one.

Someone else can tackle closed practices, I really don't give a about that.

 

[rosconey]

I think your problem might be that you can't separate any discussion from being about Marrone's coaching acumen.

I figured most people here would understand that we were talking about fans complaining about the lack of attactiveness of the 2012 home schedule, and that it's only going to be a problem for 2012 in this dead end league.

I also figured that most people would know that we still need to be a better football team than we were in 2011, as we prepare for that ACC move.

I really don't think you're most people. You might be the 1%, but not in the way everyone aspires to be the 1%.

-try reading all the posts before you post this crap-

scooch said-2012 is about as irrelevant a season as we're ever going to see. As long as there isn't some utter catastrophe it's all about getting this program positioned right for 2013.

chip said-Everyone needs to take a deep breath, hope the closed practices improve the product, and get ready for 2013.

i doubt anyone aspires to be whatever percent you are also

 

[Scooch]

maybe you do-try reading all the posts before you post crap

scooch said-2012 is about as irrelevant a season as we're ever going to see. As long as there isn't some utter catastrophe it's all about getting this program positioned right for 2013.

chip said-Everyone needs to take a deep breath, hope the closed practices improve the product, and get ready for 2013.

And I meant what I said. Our schedule blows, attendance will blow, and I suspect there will be next to no enthusiasm for the program all year. Hence, irrelevant. I figure a likely scenario is we win 4-5 games, but develop enough kids so that in 2013 we're ready to advance, given that'll be year 4 of the Marrone recruiting plan and will have a decent team or two on the home schedule.

But I know a few folks have convinced themselves that if we don't go 9-3 next year we'll need to shut down the program. So knock yourself out. It's the same mentality that causes people to scream "2012 IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION OF OUR LIFETIME!!!1!11!!!"

 

[rosconey]

And I meant what I said. Our schedule blows, attendance will blow, and I suspect there will be next to no enthusiasm for the program all year. Hence, irrelevant. I figure a likely scenario is we win 4-5 games, but develop enough kids so that in 2013 we're ready to advance, given that'll be year 4 of the Marrone recruiting plan and will have a decent team or two on the home schedule.

But I know a few folks have convinced themselves that if we don't go 9-3 next year we'll need to shut down the program. So knock yourself out. It's the same mentality that causes people to scream "2012 IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION OF OUR LIFETIME!!!1!11!!!"

did i once say 9-3 or anything that crazy? no i didnt

i said 5 wins with a legit offense would work for me -



just state your friggin opinion and leave out the crap that is supposed to be a putdown

 

[Fjoinkay]

From what I've read here it looks like Bud was throwing every possible negative interpretation to the situation onto a blank canvas and trying to make a worst case senario argument out of his mosaic of negativity. It's a bunch of hogwash.

The media is offended. A lot more people read about SU spring practices and developments in the Post Standard or online than actually go to the practices...thousands more, and the paper might even suffer a minor loss in advertising revenue. But more than that it seems egos are involved, and members of the media definitely are no strangers to ego.

Marrone has no agenda with the fans. If he did he would be clinically insane. He's simply doing what he deems is best for the players and the team, and he's willing to risk offending the media and thereby a small number of fans. But the fans and even the media will respond a lot more in the fall when the it's time for Ws or Ls.

 

[Scooch]

did i once say 9-3 or anything that crazy? no i didnt

i said 5 wins with a legit offense would work for me -



just state your friggin opinion and leave out the crap that is supposed to be a putdown

So 5-7 with crappy attendance is 'relevant'?

 

[Scooch]

Bud should be psyched, so much more time to hit up Syracuse Opera!

 

[Orangeyes]

A few weeks ago he was all over Les Mis

 

[rosconey]

So 5-7 with crappy attendance is 'relevant'?

show me where i posted that in this thread? bet you cant

 

[Chip]

-try reading all the posts before you post this crap-

scooch said-2012 is about as irrelevant a season as we're ever going to see. As long as there isn't some utter catastrophe it's all about getting this program positioned right for 2013.

chip said-Everyone needs to take a deep breath, hope the closed practices improve the product, and get ready for 2013.

i doubt anyone aspires to be whatever percent you are also

I read my own post before I posted, but thanks for re-posting. I'd love to know where you get mulligan from any of it, neither of us said we shouldn't aim to be a better team in 2012. I think you read it, put us in some pro Marrone camp that, in your mind, thinks that camp won't pay attention to anything in 2012 because all is well. And if so, you completely read it wrong.

 

[Chip]

Agree 100%, I dont know where some on here get the idea that the casual fan is suddenly going to rush back to the dome because were playing GTech or Virginia at Noon on a Saturday in October most non diehards couldnt seperate the ACC from the Big East in terms of stature if there life depended on it.

Yeah, but you're taking worst case. I think you don't give enough credit to SU fans. They may not come out in droves for some of the ACC teams, but I'd bet SU fans are more excited about the future schedules with Clemson, FSU, possible years of VT, Miami on the schedule than even any WVU game. Yeah, the Wakes and Dukes aren't going to bring them out. The UVAs, GTs, UNCs, NC States, Marylands might mean average crowds, but I still think casual and diehard fans would have more recognition of, and interest in, those names than the USFs, Cincys, Rutgers, UConns (football) of the world. Pitt and BC are what they are, not huge draws, but traditional opponents that still get more interest than what we're leaving behind.

End of the day, as Scooch said, if we don't win it won't matter. But SU is located in an event driven city, ACC has more opportunities in football for event games than the 2005-2011 Big East ever did.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Yeah, but you're taking worst case. I think you don't give enough credit to SU fans. They may not come out in droves for some of the ACC teams, but I'd bet SU fans are more excited about the future schedules with Clemson, FSU, possible years of VT, Miami on the schedule than even any WVU game. Yeah, the Wakes and Dukes aren't going to bring them out. The UVAs, GTs, UNCs, NC States, Marylands might mean average crowds, but I still think casual and diehard fans would have more recognition of, and interest in, those names than the USFs, Cincys, Rutgers, UConns (football) of the world. Pitt and BC are what they are, not huge draws, but traditional opponents that still get more interest than what we're leaving behind.

End of the day, as Scooch said, if we don't win it won't matter. But SU is located in an event driven city, ACC has more opportunities in football for event games than the 2005-2011 Big East ever did.

I give a lot of credit to SU fans but I know the difference between the diehard locals like myself, Bees, DCCuse, LincolnCuse, Extreme, All4SU, Retro, GOSU, and thousands of others versus the casual SU/college sports fan. While I do think attendance will jump somewhat with an ACC schedule I dont see mid 40's regulary or even lower 40's for most games. Miami hasnt been a relevant top 10 or even top 25 program in about a decade and FSU will play here what once every 4 years ditto for Va Tech. Most of the casual fans wll come out for VaTech, FSU, maybe even Pitt, BC, and Maryland but again if SU isnt at least an average program by that point I think your only talking about a few thousand more fans a game then we would get for a BE team. Trust me if were not winning the novelty will wear off real fast, see the SU attendance #'s for Penn State and ND earlier this decade far from a sell out.

 

[JeremyCuse]

No one says that. Well, no one with a brain in their head.

Wow, people really are having a hard time separating all the various things that are being bitched about. It's all become some Ronnie Spector-like Wall of Whiny Sound.

I'll start with attendance... the only way crowds will increase is if the team wins more. Bottom line, end of story.

Now, if you look at SU crowds in the 80s and 90s, we would draw in the low-to-mid 40s on average, and then spike into the upper-40s for marquee games. Simply put, there has been 1 marquee Big East team since the new lineup came about in 2005: West Virginia. No one gave a rat's patootee about Cincy, UL, USF, Rutgers, UConn.

Will SU draw 48K for a 3-6 team playing a 5-4 Wake Forest? Of course not. But will we draw that for a 6-3 SU team playing a #5 Florida State, or a #10 Clemson, or a #15 NC State... historical evidence suggests we will. The combination of being good ourselves and playing attractive conference opponents is much more likely to spur attendance in the ACC. That's the argument, and I think it's a sound one.

Someone else can tackle closed practices, I really don't give a about that.

I dont disagree with this post and attendance increasing if were playing a top 15 team at home but your contradicting yourself form your original post about 2012 not being that relevant in the grand scheme. If SU has a non bowl season this year how can they position themselves for succes on the field or off it (attendance etc) for 2013 and beyond. Recruiting has been far from a picnic the last few years and thats in the BE, how do you think thats going to go if we have a losing record and now are going head to head with ACC teams and not Rutgers, UConn and South Florida. Also another losing season isnt going to spark attendance for the following year ACC schedule or not. I think this year is actually very big in the grand scheme the last thing this program needs is a 4-8 season with Marrone in a lame duck/contract year going into a much tougher conference.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

We're in the same division wth FSU, we'll play them at home every 2 years.

Miami and Va Tech will come to the Dome once every 6 years.

 

[Scooch]

I dont disagree with this post and attendance increasing if were playing a top 15 team at home but your contradicting yourself form your original post about 2012 not being that relevant in the grand scheme. If SU has a non bowl season this year how can they position themselves for succes on the field or off it (attendance etc) for 2013 and beyond. Recruiting has been far from a picnic the last few years and thats in the BE, how do you think thats going to go if we have a losing record and now are going head to head with ACC teams and not Rutgers, UConn and South Florida. Also another losing season isnt going to spark attendance for the following year ACC schedule or not. I think this year is actually very big in the grand scheme the last thing this program needs is a 4-8 season with Marrone in a lame duck/contract year going into a much tougher conference.

Sorry, now I see how I wasn't clear with my comment. My point was that in terms of enthusiasm and fan support I think this year is, well, just going to be weird. We play 5 home games, and that schedule is lousy. We're coming off of a terrible finish last season, and there will be no anticipation or excitement for this season to begin. And I have very little confidence that this team is going to have a stong year, I just don't see the talent getting us there.

So my point was that I think our best case scenario is that we just ride this awkward season out. Hope for the best, for sure. I'm just not optimistic, at all. So I'm hoping we just don't have a disaster, win a few games and see enough young talent develop that we feel some optimism for 2013. And that will coincide with getting into the ACC and having a more attractive home slate.

"Irrelevant" was probably a poor choice of word.

 

[omniorange]

We're in the same division wth FSU, we'll play them at home every 2 years.

Unless, of course, every other FSU home game is doled out to MetLife Stadium.

Just saying.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Bayside44]

As far as attendance goes the ACC will also bring some fans. Not like the USFs or Cincys were traveling in droves, but the new schools will bring more bodies.

 

[Chip]

As far as attendance goes the ACC will also bring some fans. Not like the USFs or Cincys were traveling in droves, but the new schools will bring more bodies.

The USFs, Cincys and Louisvilles were traveling in dozens. Wake did as well, but I expect that to be the exception for the ACC, in the Big East it was much closer to the norm.

Clemson should nicely orange up the place.

 

[rrlbees]

We're in the same division wth FSU, we'll play them at home every 2 years.

Miami and Va Tech will come to the Dome once every 6 years.

I think people need to read that a few times and it has been posted several other times. Some here think we will be playing the FSU's and Miami's in the Dome every year. If things are spread evenly, at best we will play one of those 3 teams 5 of every 6 years. That almost 1 game a year is our marquee game because we aren't getting any big OOC team for the next 3 decades unless we get creative and it will be rare.

 

[rrlbees]

Agree or disagree with Bud, I don't see why people are bent out of shape because he doesn't go to practice. Nothing he said has anything to do with something that you would need to go to practice to comment on.

 

[Orangeyes]

Agree or disagree with Bud, I don't see why people are bent out of shape because he doesn't go to practice. Nothing he said has anything to do with something that you would need to go to practice to comment on.

Bud is actually a pretty nice guy.

 

[rrlbees]

Bud is actually a pretty nice guy.

Agree.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[Stern]

Bud is 100% correct in his assessment he made on the radio. You can hate him and post not-so funny one-liners and zingers at him but it doesn't change the fact he is 100% correct! And yes he took a bunch of issues and mashed them up together because "SU FOOTBALL" is the issue and the way they do business from top to bottom is poor!

The people who think by closing practices the team is doing more work, better work , and it will result in more wins during the season are fooling themselves. There is no logical reason to do that.

Even if only a small minority of fans show up for spring practice why in god's name would you piss off that bunch? The most loyal bunch you have left. The bunch who has stuck with ya through thick and thin and through this last horrible decade SU football has had? They (SU) gain nothing by doing that. Nothing! There is no competitive advantage. If you believe that you are lost on this issue! Even if you don't want the fans there (the few that show up) why keep the media out? What, you don't want your program mentioned in the paper? You don't want your program to get attention? You don't want future recruits reading about SU football? It's just dumb! And yes it is a slap in the face to the loyal local SU fanbase to have their first open practice in Rochester! It just is! No way to spin it!

Darryl Gross is good at two things. 1) Raising Money! God bless him for doing it, he is a master of it. 2) Staying out of the way of the Men's Basketball program. That program was a monster before he got here and he is smart enough not to tinker with it. Aside from those 2 things he has been a disaster on the football side. He has made 2 bad hires (GROB and now Marrone) and nothing has improved. Oh I'm sorry, we won the Pinstripe Bowl, let's milk that for another few years and keep reminding people.

When you have a bad product (SU football is currently a bad product, sorry it is) you must be "FAN FRIENDLY!" Going in the opposite direction and expecting the consumers (fan base) to be happy and supportive is foolish. What SU football is doing is suicide! And some of you on this site can call me names, call Bud names, and throw out your not-so-funny one-liners to put this down, but it doesn't change reality. This group (Doug and Darryl) have no clue how to run a college football program. They are clueless! Every action they take goes against common sense and logic.