Maybe it's time to step back and re-evaluate

[VaBeachOrFan]

I know we thought Cooney was going to be the next greatest impersonation of Kyle Curic, and that DC was going to be the next Wes Unseld (that's what I was hoping), grabbing rebounds and firing laser outlet passes to a streaking MCW and company. And the dreams were fueled by SU's usual easy schedule (really, I'm not knocking the strategy, just observing the impact on our perceptions) to the point we were 18-1 and looking rosy. Admit it, we all got caught up in high expectations.

Now teams are zoning us (that observation is an intended slap at all JB critics who've said if the Zone is such a great defense, why aren't other teams using it) because we have a hole in our donut defense and we can't hit the outside shot. What idiot wouldn't zone us?!?

So this team's flaws have been exposed, and our tournament worth is being questioned, and the fans are calling for JB's head (what else is new). They're reading the riot act on MCW (out of control), Triche (can't lead), Southie (won't slash), Rak (won't try), Cooney (can't shoot), Grant (can't get PT), DC (can't defend), and anybody not named CJ.

That makes me think I'm in need of an attitude adjustment on two counts:
1. Fab would have plugged the hole in the donut. How much different would this team have been if he had ripped his classes as well as he did car accessories?
2. Scoop and Kris were a natural departure, but how much would Dion have filled the leadership gap and added to this team's tournament chances?

Those two "retainees" would have put us in the Final Four, I believe, so......instead of jumping on JB for not flogging this team to more BE victories, perhaps the truth is that he's won more games than he should have this year with smoke and mirrors (he even admits that for the Louisville game) and with young players. And if he detonates after last night's frustrating loss, that's just due to (1) his known competitiveness, and (2) his known loyalty to his players even when they don't play up to everyone's expectations. We should have expected it. Ugly, but understandable. Give the young players another year to develop and they'll start living up to this year's expectations.-VBOF

 

[SWC75]

Exactly. if we had Fab and Dion, this would be the team some people thought it was. Those people are finding out what this team actually is.

 

[kingtidge]

Give the young players another year to develop and they'll start living up to this year's expectations.-VBOF

So, while other teams are getting better around us (and beating us), we have to wait for next year.

Also, why shouldn't Brandon Triche have to live up to expectations for leadership?

I wouldn't contend this team are world beaters, but I would contend we are collectively underperforming ... we lack leadership and our bigs have regressed as the year has gone on...

 

[orangecuse]

Ah...the 'ol what if? If we had Nerlen's...

 

[dasher]

So, while other teams are getting better around us (and beating us), we have to wait for next year.

Also, why shouldn't Brandon Triche have to live up to expectations for leadership?

I wouldn't contend this team are world beaters, but I would contend we are collectively underperforming ... we lack leadership and our bigs have regressed as the year has gone on...

Not to nit pick but the season isn't over. In '75 we got drilled by P.C. and others and made the final 4. In '87, we lost to g-town 3 times. In '96 we were 4th in the league. We could still have a run in the NCAA. 3 wins there and this would be a terrific season.

 

[kingtidge]

Not to nit pick but the season isn't over. In '75 we got drilled by P.C. and others and made the final 4. In '87, we lost to g-town 3 times. In '96 we were 4th in the league. We could still have a run in the NCAA. 3 wins there and this would be a terrific season.

I couldn't agree more... I posted because I think it's a cop-out to say "we need another year".

Players leave early everywhere...

Besides... so if we are to "wait" til next year... for what? Triche and Dirty gone and true frosh Ennis running the point?

Why won't this be the "excuse" next year too...

No, there are no excuses.

 

[strumpfasaurus]

I think it's pointless to say well if so and so stayed another year we'd be good. Take a look at kentucky if their players stayed their out of conference games would have to be against the wizards and Heat.

 

[Marsh01]

I know we thought Cooney was going to be the next greatest impersonation of Kyle Curic, and that DC was going to be the next Wes Unseld (that's what I was hoping), grabbing rebounds and firing laser outlet passes to a streaking MCW and company. And the dreams were fueled by SU's usual easy schedule (really, I'm not knocking the strategy, just observing the impact on our perceptions) to the point we were 18-1 and looking rosy. Admit it, we all got caught up in high expectations.

Because we got spoiled with freshman success thats why. Carmelo - superstar from day one Gmac - superstar from day one. Even Billy Edelin was great his freshman year. Johnny was better than I thought. JB has stated that freshman are just not ready to play and with this group he is right. There isnt anything wrong with that either. DC is struggling but I expect him to be a very good player here down the road. Same with Trevor. I lump him into the mix because he didnt play last year. Hell even MCW is a half a freshman as he got limited minutes this year. He is viewed as having a sub par season and not ready to play in the NBA but who created the stuffstorm in he first place? Fans, media, nba scouts. Not the player. Not the coach. We are all guilty of it.

We as a fan base almost expect our first year players to just jump right in and take off. Some kids just need more time to mature and improve. To me its unfair and we shouldnt pass judgement until after a kids playing career is over.

 

[RF2044]

I couldn't agree more... I posted because I think it's a cop-out to say "we need another year".

Players leave early everywhere...

Besides... so if we are to "wait" til next year... for what? Triche and Dirty gone and true frosh Ennis running the point?

Why won't this be the "excuse" next year too...

No, there are no excuses.

I'm not in "love" with the personnel on this squad, as the team as currently constituted has a lot of flaws.

But thinking about next year, it is probable that of the team's primary four scorers, three will be gone [Southerland, MCW, Triche].

That leaves CJ as the only returning player who is a proven commodity, which is scary--and not because CJ is subpar. To the contrary, he is a stud who is the team's most consistent player, and probably the BEST player. A great building block.

And the cupboard isn't exactly bare. If Grant and Coleman make the sophomore jump, if Gbinije steps into Triche's shoes adequately, and if Ennis quarterback's the team at a high level, we could be very, very good. Ennis, Gbinije, CJ, Grant, and Coleman--if things click--could be a very solid starting 5. Bench of Cooney, Rak, Keita--with possibly Patterson / Johnson also in the mix--gives us quality depth.

Still, we're losing a ton this offseason, and none of the stuff in the preceding paragraph is a sure thing.

 

[Orangemen]

JB just does not trust freshman centers. In his defensive system, the center is the most important player, making all the calls, and acting as the last line of defense. JB just does not trust freshman with that job. That fact, more than anything else, doomed DC this year.

DC on OSU would be a poor mans Sullinger this season.

On SU, he'll have to wait till next year to perform that role.

And honestly, it's a shame. Having a capable offensive big man this season would be a huge improvement for this team. That's our biggest problem right now. If CJ is well covered on a play, we're passing it around until someone jacks a 3. A capable offensive center changes the whole complexion of this team.

 

[Marsh01]

JB just does not trust freshman centers. In his defensive system, the center is the most important player, making all the calls, and acting as the last line of defense. JB just does not trust freshman with that job. That fact, more than anything else, doomed DC this year.

DC on OSU would be a poor mans Sullinger this season.

On SU, he'll have to wait till next year to perform that role.

And honestly, it's a shame. Having a capable offensive big man this season would be a huge improvement for this team. That's our biggest problem right now. If CJ is well covered on a play, we're passing it around until someone jacks a 3. A capable offensive center changes the whole complexion of this team.

DC wouldnt see the floor this year if he were on OSU this season. Ravanel would get the minutes over him.

 

[kingtidge]

And honestly, it's a shame. Having a capable offensive big man this season would be a huge improvement for this team. That's our biggest problem right now. If CJ is well covered on a play, we're passing it around until someone jacks a 3. A capable offensive center changes the whole complexion of this team.

Keita was always going to be a project... Rak was to be the heir apparent... part of why Dashonte Riley left...

I don't think he's where everyone hoped he'd be at this point.

That said, we won the NC with an incapable offensive center who played defense well... so it's not just that...

 

[Orangemen]

DC wouldnt see the floor this year if he were on OSU this season. Ravanel would get the minutes over him.

You watch more games than me, so I'll defer to your opinion regarding DC's playing time on OSU.

My opinion is that he is capable of more than he's being allowed to do, especially offensively, but JB's defensive system and expectations for freshman centers won't let him get there.

 

[RF2044]

You watch more games than me, so I'll defer to your opinion regarding DC's playing time on OSU.

My opinion is that he is capable of more than he's being allowed to do, especially offensively, but JB's defensive system and expectations for freshman centers won't let him get there.

Or maybe its DC's lack of execution and botched defensive assignments and repeat mistakes that won't let him get there.

 

[billsin01]

I'm not in "love" with the personnel on this squad, as the team as currently constituted has a lot of flaws.

But thinking about next year, it is probable that of the team's primary four scorers, three will be gone [Southerland, MCW, Triche].

That leaves CJ as the only returning player who is a proven commodity, which is scary--and not because CJ is subpar. To the contrary, he is a stud who is the team's most consistent player, and probably the BEST player. A great building block.

And the cupboard isn't exactly bare. If Grant and Coleman make the sophomore jump, if Gbinije steps into Triche's shoes adequately, and if Ennis quarterback's the team at a high level, we could be very, very good. Ennis, Gbinije, CJ, Grant, and Coleman--if things click--could be a very solid starting 5.

Still, we're losing a ton this offseason, and none of the stuff in the preceding paragraph is a sure thing.

I agree with this. I think the thing that's been really disappointing this season is how far away MCW is from being a legit scoring threat. Really disappointing. And then there's Rak. My God, what a disappointing offensive season. Whatever my expectations or anyone's expectations were for him, he's been absolutely pitiful. He's scored 4 points or less in 11 of 15 BE games. He's scored 2 points or less in 9 -- NINE -- of 15 BE games. That means he's not even catching and finishing nor is he getting an offensive board and a put-back. That is truly terrible production.

So as frustrating as MCW has been and as lukewarm as I am on Triche and, for that matter Southerland, anyone "waiting for next year" should be concerned.

 

[iommi]

I'm not in "love" with the personnel on this squad, as the team as currently constituted has a lot of flaws.

But thinking about next year, it is probable that of the team's primary four scorers, three will be gone [Southerland, MCW, Triche].

That leaves CJ as the only returning player who is a proven commodity, which is scary--and not because CJ is subpar. To the contrary, he is a stud who is the team's most consistent player, and probably the BEST player. A great building block.

And the cupboard isn't exactly bare. If Grant and Coleman make the sophomore jump, if Gbinije steps into Triche's shoes adequately, and if Ennis quarterback's the team at a high level, we could be very, very good. Ennis, Gbinije, CJ, Grant, and Coleman--if things click--could be a very solid starting 5. Bench of Cooney, Rak, Keita--with possibly Patterson / Johnson also in the mix--gives us quality depth.

Still, we're losing a ton this offseason, and none of the stuff in the preceding paragraph is a sure thing.

To me, that's one too many "ifs" to be confident in 2013-2014.

 

[Marsh01]

Or maybe its DC's lack of execution and botched defensive assignments and repeat mistakes that won't let him get there.

^^^This

 

[iommi]

^^^This

The big issue is his defense. He was a 280 lb sieve and that doesn't make a ton of sense, especially for a guy with his footwork.

 

[SWC75]

I couldn't agree more... I posted because I think it's a cop-out to say "we need another year".

Players leave early everywhere...

Besides... so if we are to "wait" til next year... for what? Triche and Dirty gone and true frosh Ennis running the point?

Why won't this be the "excuse" next year too...

No, there are no excuses.

No excuses for what? Being the team they are instead of the team you thought they were?

 

[Shenexon]

I just want to re-emphasize Pearl's post of yesterday: "Enjoy The Ride".

We have a number of very talented players on the team and they can be very impressive and fun to watch. They can also make us shake our heads in wonder. That's the roller-coaster we choose to obsess over. I wish we could play more consistently well and perhaps we will. The past couple of games have really hurt everyone's confidence in this team, but I expect a win every time we play. We're going to play well at least part of the time and that gives us all hope, not just for this year but next.

We're losing Southerland, Triche, and MCW, but maybe, just maybe they'll really impress us before it's time for them to move on. With who is coming back and coming in, we're going to be impressed next year as well, but will hate losing just like we do now. I love being an SU fan, love hating Georgetown, love looking down my nose at Marquette, and love it when the BE and all of the schools we're leaving take a special pleasure in beating us. SU athletics is in a good place and I'm glad to be along "For the Ride".

 

[kingtidge]

No excuses for what? Being the team they are instead of the team you thought they were?

losing a game for getting outhustled and playing soft.

 

[cuserulesall]

^^^This

From what I see is DC is just about ready to turn it ON ! The beast will be let loose !

 

[longtimefan]

I couldn't agree more... I posted because I think it's a cop-out to say "we need another year".

Players leave early everywhere...

Besides... so if we are to "wait" til next year... for what? Triche and Dirty gone and true frosh Ennis running the point?

Why won't this be the "excuse" next year too...

No, there are no excuses.

Re: "players leave early everywhere"

Absolutely. Kentucky and UNC got the guts of their teams ripped out in the off-season. But so did SU. I've heard this reason (excuse?) used by the media and hardcore fans when speaking of the 'Cats and Heels this whole season. Not so much for SU. But we lost 4 of our top 6 scorers from last year, not to mention the defensive presence that Fab gave us.

I think we all expected way too much out of MCW, both running the half-court offense, and, especially, scoring.

 

[swish7]

Exactly. if we had Fab and Dion, this would be the team some people thought it was. Those people are finding out what this team actually is.

There is no scenario where Dion would be on this squad. He is too good.

Fab? Maybe.,

So, with Fab are we a final 4 contender?

I think so. Que lastima.

 

[earlfromclay]

Quote:

"excuses are for losers"

- James Arthur Boeheim