McCord

[djorange1989]

Let's not forget that the guy who headed the NCAA when we constantly got screwed, because something happened to him at SU when he was a student like a girl screwed him over, is no longer there. This is like a "Makeup call" in a game. The NCAA might feel like they "owe" us a nice decision.

Except for the student at SU part, sounds like Doug Gottlieb

 

[rrlbees]

Heck, you can't even get your CPA license without taking 5-years of college. Wasn't Nassib an Accounting major?

Finance and Accounting. Straight A’s except one B.

 

[bnoro]

I remember when you needed an actual medical problem to get a redshirt? Why did that turn into "I wasn't good enough to play so I should get a 5th year"?

 

[phil77]

Why did that turn into "I wasn't good enough to play so I should get a 5th year"?

$$$$$$$

 

[pokercuse08]

Take the 5-year rule. That's arbitrary. The NCAA already gave up the fort by allowing a 5th year and the redshirt. If kids can get their degree and be out in 4, why allow the 5th year? Because once you have allowed the 5th year, why not 6? If all parties involved want to keep collaborating, and the player is finishing a 2-year master's program, who is the NCAA to say that the student-athlete can't remain eligible?

Exactly, it makes sense to have the NCAA rule on whether or not a player is academically eligible to represent their institution in athletics. But any rule on the number of years is arbitrary. An age limit to protect the interests of athletes might make sense, and creating different levels such as undergrads and post-grads could make sense, but is anyone going to field post-grad only teams? Of course not.

So to me they need to hang their hat on enforcing the academic side of things only, and you can make an argument that 5 to play 5 makes sense academically because if you're in good standing taking at least 12 credits a semester it shouldn't take you more than five years. They can also make a flimsy argument that the spirit of 5 to play 5 is to keep it to primarily undergrads, with some wiggle room for kids who excel academically to get a post-grad degree in within 5 years.

Where it gets really interesting is that you could also make an argument that anyone academically enrolled who is not a professional athlete should be eligible, which would lead to guys like Eric Dungey or Gerry McNamara leading 10-15 year college careers. Someone like that who clearly has higher earning potential in college and little/no NFL/NBA future is highly incentivized to sue at some point, the trick is finding a 22 year old who is level headed enough to realize they don't have an NFL future and can make more in college.

You could make a pretty strong argument that someone in the mold of Dungey right now would be best served by getting every degree possible while making $500K-1M playing college football until he's into his early 30s. Ultimately, what's the harm in that? It's absolutely not the model we're used to, and a lot of us wouldn't like it, but is it wrong? Are we going to make the argument that at a level where kids are paid seven figures to play, it's unfair to the 18 year olds who haven't developed enough physically to compete with "grown men"? All the while a bunch of them are a year or two removed from the NFL? I don't know, I really don't.

This is all a slippery slope, but college sports had been streaking across the quad towards that slope on a rainy day for a while, and now they're sliding down it buck naked.

 

[bnoro]

Exactly, it makes sense to have the NCAA rule on whether or not a player is academically eligible to represent their institution in athletics. But any rule on the number of years is arbitrary. An age limit to protect the interests of athletes might make sense, and creating different levels such as undergrads and post-grads could make sense, but is anyone going to field post-grad only teams? Of course not.

So to me they need to hang their hat on enforcing the academic side of things only, and you can make an argument that 5 to play 5 makes sense academically because if you're in good standing taking at least 12 credits a semester it shouldn't take you more than five years. They can also make a flimsy argument that the spirit of 5 to play 5 is to keep it to primarily undergrads, with some wiggle room for kids who excel academically to get a post-grad degree in within 5 years.

Where it gets really interesting is that you could also make an argument that anyone academically enrolled who is not a professional athlete should be eligible, which would lead to guys like Eric Dungey or Gerry McNamara leading 10-15 year college careers. Someone like that who clearly has higher earning potential in college and little/no NFL/NBA future is highly incentivized to sue at some point, the trick is finding a 22 year old who is level headed enough to realize they don't have an NFL future and can make more in college.

You could make a pretty strong argument that someone in the mold of Dungey right now would be best served by getting every degree possible while making $500K-1M playing college football until he's into his early 30s. Ultimately, what's the harm in that? It's absolutely not the model we're used to, and a lot of us wouldn't like it, but is it wrong? Are we going to make the argument that at a level where kids are paid seven figures to play, it's unfair to the 18 year olds who haven't developed enough physically to compete with "grown men"? All the while a bunch of them are a year or two removed from the NFL? I don't know, I really don't.

This is all a slippery slope, but college sports had been streaking across the quad towards that slope on a rainy day for a while, and now they're sliding down it buck naked.

Any rule on the number of years is arbitrary? It should not take you 5 years to graduate.

4 years is a perfectly reasonable limit, with a max of one additional year granted if you suffered a season ending injury within the first 4 games.

Anything else and it is disingenuous when comparing to the college system. Might as well be minor league sports if you change it further.

 

[pokercuse08]

Shoot, I didn't even realize that conference championship games, bowl games, and playoffs don't count against the limit anymore. So you're telling me a player can now theoretically play in nine games and still redshirt???

 

[pokercuse08]

Any rule on the number of years is arbitrary? It should not take you 5 years to graduate.

4 years is a perfectly reasonable limit, with a max of one additional year granted if you suffered a season ending injury within the first 4 games.

Anything else and it is disingenuous when comparing to the college system. Might as well be minor league sports if you change it further.

Some (not most) undergrad majors take five years at a normal course load (15 credits or so), and the minimum course load to be a full-time student as I recall is 12 credits a semester. That's 10 semesters to get to 120 credits, which is the minimum to graduate for most degrees. Plenty of students (not just athletes) also change their majors and add a fifth year to finish, so isn't an argument that athletes don't have the right to do that and still play kind of arbitrary? It's no longer an argument over whether they are academically enrolled at the school, it's an argument over how old the oldest players should be allowed to be. That argument is wildly different when the players are making serious money.

Obviously if we tie it to actual major changes and studies, it can be gamed by players to extend eligibility by taking a 5 year major or switching majors just to extend their eligibility, so 5 for 5 seems fair to all and allows players to enjoy the same eligibility to play regardless of what they study, allowing those that care to pursue the fields of study that they really want.

I agree with your last two sentences, my response is just that it's already disingenuous to say that D1 college football and basketball are not basically minor league sports. Not everyone playing them is destined to play pro ball or intends to, but ~everyone 18 years old who intends to and is destined to plays D1 college football/basketball. It's a feeder system and it generates a ton of revenue. Any debate over whether or not it's minor league sports is ultimately going to boil down to semantics. I would argue that the primary reason that the feeders in football/basketball are college sports instead of minor league sports is the ability of those sports to generate waaaay more revenue than a minor league would.

 

[texascpa]

Any rule on the number of years is arbitrary? It should not take you 5 years to graduate.

4 years is a perfectly reasonable limit, with a max of one additional year granted if you suffered a season ending injury within the first 4 games.

Anything else and it is disingenuous when comparing to the college system. Might as well be minor league sports if you change it further.

While it's specific to Certified Public Accountants, all states require 150 credit hours to get a CPA license. That translates to 5 years college taking normal class load. I'm sure there are other technical certifications and careers that expect more than 4 years college.

 

[Marsh01]

Any rule on the number of years is arbitrary? It should not take you 5 years to graduate.

4 years is a perfectly reasonable limit, with a max of one additional year granted if you suffered a season ending injury within the first 4 games.

Anything else and it is disingenuous when comparing to the college system. Might as well be minor league sports if you change it further.

It took me 5 years to graduate. godamn 1980’s

 

[tep624]

I remember when you needed an actual medical problem to get a redshirt? Why did that turn into "I wasn't good enough to play so I should get a 5th year"?

When you have 7th and 8th year seniors now, regardless of the reason, does it really matter anymore?

 

[David321]

When you have 7th and 8th year seniors now, regardless of the reason, does it really matter anymore?

Exactly. I don't remember there being a public outcry when every one got an extra COVID year.

 

[DownTheField]

Should the NCAA be making decisions based on potential NIL? If Texas A&M and their oil money offer a kid who has exhausted their eligibility more than they would make as a #1 draft pick, could they sue because NCAA eligibility rules are limiting future earnings?

 

[tptcuse]

Some (not most) undergrad majors take five years at a normal course load (15 credits or so), and the minimum course load to be a full-time student as I recall is 12 credits a semester. That's 10 semesters to get to 120 credits, which is the minimum to graduate for most degrees. Plenty of students (not just athletes) also change their majors and add a fifth year to finish, so isn't an argument that athletes don't have the right to do that and still play kind of arbitrary? It's no longer an argument over whether they are academically enrolled at the school, it's an argument over how old the oldest players should be allowed to be. That argument is wildly different when the players are making serious money.

Obviously if we tie it to actual major changes and studies, it can be gamed by players to extend eligibility by taking a 5 year major or switching majors just to extend their eligibility, so 5 for 5 seems fair to all and allows players to enjoy the same eligibility to play regardless of what they study, allowing those that care to pursue the fields of study that they really want.

I agree with your last two sentences, my response is just that it's already disingenuous to say that D1 college football and basketball are not basically minor league sports. Not everyone playing them is destined to play pro ball or intends to, but ~everyone 18 years old who intends to and is destined to plays D1 college football/basketball. It's a feeder system and it generates a ton of revenue. Any debate over whether or not it's minor league sports is ultimately going to boil down to semantics. I would argue that the primary reason that the feeders in football/basketball are college sports instead of minor league sports is the ability of those sports to generate waaaay more revenue than a minor league would.

Great post.

Geek alert: I'm a classical musician and universities and conservatories have created whole degree and certificate programs based around getting the best musicians to stay in school for a very long time and play in their "elite" ensembles. Many of the best performers don't pay a dime in tuition and get paid for "assistantships" that often involve little to no work. Why can't that happen with sports that generate millions of dollars?

 

[dasher]

It took me 5 years to graduate. godamn 1980’s

Me as well

 

[David321]

Great post.

Geek alert: I'm a classical musician and universities and conservatories have created whole degree and certificate programs based around getting the best musicians to stay in school for a very long time and play in their "elite" ensembles. Many of the best performers don't pay a dime in tuition and get paid for "assistantships" that often involve little to no work. Why can't that happen with sports that generate millions of dollars?

Never knew that about you! What instrument do you play? Classical music is my favorite, my wife and I attend string quartets and other ensembles at the college where I work.

 

[pokercuse08]

Should the NCAA be making decisions based on potential NIL? If Texas A&M and their oil money offer a kid who has exhausted their eligibility more than they would make as a #1 draft pick, could they sue because NCAA eligibility rules are limiting future earnings?

Yes and no. They shouldn't treat Kyle McCord differently than they'd treat a kid at a small school who might make $100K in NIL if he gets an extra year, assuming the determining factors are the same. However, it's reasonable to treat them both differently now than they would have pre-NIL and it's reasonable to make the decision based on the high earners and then apply the same standard to everyone.

 

[tptcuse]

Never knew that about you! What instrument do you play? Classical music is my favorite, my wife and I attend string quartets and other ensembles at the college where I work.

Trumpet. Look at my avatar carefully.

 

[David321]

Trumpet. Look at my avatar carefully.

Ah nice! I always like listening to Handel's Messiah this time of year. That's what got me into classical music actually.

I'll stop now because we will derail this thread lol. Very cool though.

 

[orange79]

Trumpet. Look at my avatar carefully.

...or your handle...

 

[orange79]

Ah nice! I always like listening to Handel's Messiah this time of year. That's what got me into classical music actually.

I'll stop now because we will derail this thread lol. Very cool though.

Good.

Let's get back to Kyle McChord.

 

[NJCuse97]

While it's specific to Certified Public Accountants, all states require 150 credit hours to get a CPA license. That translates to 5 years college taking normal class load. I'm sure there are other technical certifications and careers that expect more than 4 years college.

An accredited architecture degree (BArch) is 5 years. Kyle should transfer into architecture as a justification. That said, I was told that I couldn't play soccer at SU due to the demands of my major (declared major freshman year and took 21 credits my first semester). There were a few football recruits interested in architecture and I was asked to speak with them (talk them out of it) back in the day (between my own story and the fact that my two roommates were on the hoops and football team).

 

[dan7800]

Me as well

What, 3rd grade?

 

[pokercuse08]

Good.

Let's get back to Kyle McChord.

I did acquire some inside info today, although the source is a bit tenuous. My uncle's childhood friend, Gertrude, is married to the man who can make this all happen. She told my uncle that her husband, Nicholas, has been in a particularly jolly mood, and he told her that a boy named Kyle deserves a break. Now it's a violation of his normal rules to do this, but he's figured out a workaround.

Nick is a real saint of a man, and he's in Indianapolis right now arguing Kyle's case. He had to step aside from his normal job, but he was able to let Fran Brown handle it because he's at the top of the nice list this year. And that's why Gertrude Claus is making lots of cookies for Franta Claus while jolly old Saint Nicholas is convincing the NCAA to give Kyle another year.

It's neither here nor there, but I also hear Mike Norvell is getting $4.5 million worth of coal this year. Hope he has a big stocking.

Oh and you should see the ride Nicholas got from Enterprise in Indianapolis. All the bells and whistles.

 

[MikeSU02]

This thread is like those Stefon skits on Weekend Update.

This thread has everything...