McNabb believes he's a Hall of Famer

[KaiserUEO]

Maybe so, but there are a number of undeserving guys by that standard who have been admitted. Like Kellen Winslow or Jim Kelly.

not sure why all the hate for kelly.

he was a pretty damn good QB who basically answered the bell every sunday. if he didnt have 3 years of usfl stats instead of NFL, he wouldve had over 300tds and 40000yds. and what he did in his 11 years was rock solid and HOF worthy.

cant believe i just supported and touted jim kelly :bang:

you see what you fluckers have done to me...

Oh Lord

 

[Guy Fawkes]

McNabb won't get it in but it's worth the discussion. His biggest nemesis is the way he went out and the players that just retired or current players that are more HOF worthy than him: Favre, Manning, Manning, Brady, Warner, and the possibility of Brees, Rodgers and Roethilesberger.

I think he needed at least two to three more solid years after he left the Eagles and that clearly hasn't happen. I know his time is up when as a Bills fan I wouldn't want him even as a back-up. Sad.

 

[Stern]

I'm not sure how you think he's that far away. I mean he's certainly got good career numbers, a good career winning percentage and a good playoff record (I know he never won a super bowl). I don't know if he's in or not, but he's delusional for suggesting he should be a serious candidate?

Not a serious candidate. The game has changed too. His numbers compared to guys (Kelly, Aikman...etc) who played in a "run first" NFL. The NFL is now all pass-happy and all the passing stats are inflated. (just like the home numbers being infalted in baseball)

McNabb's stats compared to players of his era (Brady, Brees, Manning...etc) don't compare. They are 2nd tier numbers and not close to hall of fame numbers.

Forget about getting in, he won't make it to the final cuts and the round before they vote on who gets in. Nice player, NOT a hall of fame player! And its really not even debatable

 

[djcon57]

McNabb won't get it in but it's worth the discussion. His biggest nemesis is the way he went out and the players that just retired or current players that are more HOF worthy than him: Favre, Manning, Manning, Brady, Warner, and the possibility of Brees, Rodgers and Roethilesberger.

I think he needed at least two to three more solid years after he left the Eagles and that clearly hasn't happen. I know his time is up when as a Bills fan I wouldn't want him even as a back-up. Sad.

Looking back, that Warner vs McNabb NFC Championship was basically a HOF bid on the line.

Warner getting back in w/ a diff team stamped his bid. McNabb having 2 Supe appearances vs 1 would've made a pretty big difference, imo.

He's not in, btw...and as I've stated before NUMEROUS time, I say this as an Eagles fan, the offense during his time at various times had Westbrook when he was arguable a Top 2-3 RB in the league, Owens when he was Top 2-3, Chad Lewis when he was top 5 TE, and Desean Jax at the end...oh...and a Top 5 defense in the league through all his years

It's easy to go..HAHAHA! Freddie Mitchell!! James Thrash! He had no help.


It's bullshit and not true.

 

[billsin01]

Not a serious candidate. The game has changed too. His numbers compared to guys (Kelly, Aikman...etc) who played in a "run first" NFL. The NFL is now all pass-happy and all the passing stats are inflated. (just like the home numbers being infalted in baseball)

McNabb's stats compared to players of his era (Brady, Brees, Manning...etc) don't compare. They are 2nd tier numbers and not close to hall of fame numbers.

Forget about getting in, he won't make it to the final cuts and the round before they vote on who gets in. Nice player, NOT a hall of fame player! And its really not even debatable

I'm with you on not comparing him to kelly/aikman etc for a variety of reasons (let's not forget that kelly got to play with absurd talent for like 8 years with minimal turnover; same for aikman, same for montana ...) .

I think where you're underselling him as a player (aside from saying he's 'nice' which is like saying he's slightly above replacement level, which is untrue) is in a couple of areas:

-- Winning. QBs get credit for teams winning. Is this fair? I don't know, but they do and those eagles teams won a lot of games for a good length of time in an era when sustained success is exceedingly rare.

-- Historical place. As I said earlier, McNabb isn't the first black QB but he's the first black QB viewed as an athlete first and QB second that actually put together a great career. Would there have been opportunities for Mike Vick and Vince Young and Tim Tebow without mcnabb? Yeah, probably, but McNabb certainly helped make that pill much easier to swallow for teams with his development and success.

-- Surrounding talent. I'm not saying people should stay up crying for mcnabb at night but who are the other HOFers he played with? Westbrook was great, Staley was good, Owens was awesome for one year ... Chad Lewis? Jon Runyan? I don't know, it's an OK cast but it's not like he was playing with harrison/wayne/james/clark (which isn't a knock on manning, by the way) or holt/faulk/bruce/hakim.

Is he a HOFer? I don't know. Probably not. I don't really care one way or the other, but it's not crazy for people to make a pretty compelling argument.

 

[billsin01]

Looking back, that Warner vs McNabb NFC Championship was basically a HOF bid on the line.

Absurd. If it's true, fine, but that makes absolutely no sense to me personally. One game between two 53 man rosters determines a Hall spot for two players? You could be right but it only points out how absurd Hall of Fames are in general. It's like Manny (pre-steroid controversy) being a first-ballot guy and david ortiz not getting a sniff. Laughable.

He's not in, btw...and as I've stated before NUMEROUS time, I say this as an Eagles fan, the offense during his time at various times had Westbrook when he was arguable a Top 2-3 RB in the league, Owens when he was Top 2-3, Chad Lewis when he was top 5 TE, and Desean Jax at the end...oh...and a Top 5 defense in the league through all his years

It's easy to go..HAHAHA! Freddie Mitchell!! James Thrash! He had no help.


It's bullshit and not true.

Chad Lewis was keeping teams up at night? Owens was on good behavior and playing hard for 1 year. Jackson for what a rookie season? 2 years? Top 5 defense is fine but they never could stop the run and the got beat by more physical teams time and again in the playoffs.

Again, I have no idea if McNabb is in but comparing the offensive talent he played with (Westbrook was excellent) to Warner or Manning is a complete joke, IMO. Even Brady, who's numbers jumped dramatically when TO and Welker and Gronkowski and Hernandez joined the fold. I mean, Manning, Brady and Brees are much better than McNabb was, but comparing their surrounding talent isn't close, IMO.

 

[All4SU]

He's not in, btw...and as I've stated before NUMEROUS time, I say this as an Eagles fan, the offense during his time at various times had Westbrook when he was arguable a Top 2-3 RB in the league, Owens when he was Top 2-3, Chad Lewis when he was top 5 TE, and Desean Jax at the end...oh...and a Top 5 defense in the league through all his years

It's easy to go..HAHAHA! Freddie Mitchell!! James Thrash! He had no help.


It's bullshit and not true.

Wasn't Westbrook hurt as muh as healthy? Wasn't Owens only there 1 year?2? Didn't those defenses get a lot of turnovers but give up a ton of yards and points?

 

[KaiserUEO]

mcnabb apologists......name a HOFer...

ahmad bradshaw, brandon jacobs, derrick ward, ruben droughns, dj ware, madison hitchcock, henry hysnoski
kevin boss, michael matthews, bear pascoe, jake ballard, travis beckum...What, jeremy shockey
plaxico burress, amani toomer, steve smith, david tyree, dominic hixon, hakim nicks, mario manningham, victor cruz, ramzes barden, derrick thomas

hell, name a pro bowler...

eeedeots.

wins take work.

you dont show up and win.

not the big ones for sure.

Oh Lord

 

[djcon57]

Absurd. If it's true, fine, but that makes absolutely no sense to me personally. One game between two 53 man rosters determines a Hall spot for two players? You could be right but it only points out how absurd Hall of Fames are in general. It's like Manny (pre-steroid controversy) being a first-ballot guy and david ortiz not getting a sniff. Laughable.



Chad Lewis was keeping teams up at night? Owens was on good behavior and playing hard for 1 year. Jackson for what a rookie season? 2 years? Top 5 defense is fine but they never could stop the run and the got beat by more physical teams time and again in the playoffs.

Again, I have no idea if McNabb is in but comparing the offensive talent he played with (Westbrook was excellent) to Warner or Manning is a complete joke, IMO. Even Brady, who's numbers jumped dramatically when TO and Welker and Gronkowski and Hernandez joined the fold. I mean, Manning, Brady and Brees are much better than McNabb was, but comparing their surrounding talent isn't close, IMO.

You're right. Brady's WRs have been studs for years.
New Orleans defense is fantastic.
Manning's WR and Indy's D looked fantastic this year w/o manning.

It's always everyone else. Never Donovan.

 

[djcon57]

...and thank you for admitting Westbrook was good. Some people on this board won't even do that.

 

[djcon57]

-- Historical place. As I said earlier, McNabb isn't the first black QB but he's the first black QB viewed as an athlete first and QB second that actually put together a great career. Would there have been opportunities for Mike Vick and Vince Young and Tim Tebow without mcnabb? Yeah, probably, but McNabb certainly helped make that pill much easier to swallow for teams with his development and success.

This is not true either. Steve McNair was drafted 4 years earlier, was in the Super Bowl in 999, was in the pro Bowl in 2000, was MVP in 2003.

 

[billsin01]

You're right. Brady's WRs have been studs for years.
New Orleans defense is fantastic.
Manning's WR and Indy's D looked fantastic this year w/o manning.

It's always everyone else. Never Donovan.

Take a look at Brady's numbers and when they spike -- it is absolutely beyond question that a bunch of playmakers make a difference and my only point was when McNabb had Owens his numbers spiked. Just like brady's when Moss/Welker/Gronk/Hernandez arrived to give him plenty of mismatches to work with.

You're being extremely selective with your argument as well. You're really claiming that Manning didn't benefit from harrison/wayne/clark/James? Or that the fastest show on turf had nothing to do with faulk/holt/bruce?

And as for defense -- no kidding Indy's struggled. Why do you think Manning only has one ring? B/c he "can't win the big one twice"? Absurd. Brees has one but his defense clearly killed his chances this season. That's really the whole point.

And while we're on the topic -- how do eagles fans reconcile Eli and Big Ben having two rings? What, it was because those two are such awesome QBs?

Listen, is McNabb an HOFer? I don't know. But arguing that there was a wealth of talent around him is simply not true (aside from Westbrook who I do admit was excellent. I liked staley too for that matter).

 

[billsin01]

This is not true either. Steve McNair was drafted 4 years earlier, was in the Super Bowl in 999, was in the pro Bowl in 2000, was MVP in 2003.

How does that make it any less true? McNair is in the same class. The guys like Moon were great passers who happened to be black and helped earn black players a chance to play QB. Both McNair and McNabb were far from being considered "pure passers" yet both had a lot of success. I see them in the same light.

 

[orangenirvana]

Maybe so, but there are a number of undeserving guys by that standard who have been admitted. Like Kellen Winslow or Jim Kelly.

Jim Kelly undeserving? You have got to be kidding.

I've read many dumb statements on this forum, but this one...

 

[dollarbill44]

Maybe we can all agree that there are a lot of absurd statements being made on both sides of this argument?