MCW vs. JT

[OttoMets]

he was 8-13 yesterday. so he tried to make something happen and took a bad shot. not like anyone else was doing anything out there

My teammates aren't making shots, so why don't I waste a possession with a three attempt that will never go in?

That logic doesn't fly. In fact, it's the kind of selfishness and poor decision-making that the original poster is complaining about.

 

[anomander]

My teammates aren't making shots, so why don't I waste a possession with a three attempt that will never go in?

That logic doesn't fly. In fact, it's the kind of selfishness and poor decision-making that the original poster is complaining about.

i'm sure he was thinking about all of that before he decided to hoist the shot up too. it was a bad shot. everybody on the team takes a bad shot almost every game. how many bad shots did james have? how about triche, and cj? so he gets crucified for 1 bad shot? wow

 

[OrangeDW]

i'm sure he was thinking about all of that before he decided to hoist the shot up too. it was a bad shot. everybody on the team takes a bad shot almost every game. how many bad shots did james have? how about triche, and cj? so he gets crucified for 1 bad shot? wow

Where did I "crucify" him?

Are you his grandmother?

 

[anomander]

Where did I "crucify" him?

Are you his grandmother?

unless that is your ghost handle i didn't quote your post

 

[OttoMets]

i'm sure he was thinking about all of that before he decided to hoist the shot up too. it was a bad shot. everybody on the team takes a bad shot almost every game. how many bad shots did james have? how about triche, and cj? so he gets crucified for 1 bad shot? wow

Not crucifying him, just pointing out a silly rationalization. And it's not one bad shot - it's a pattern of poor shot selection from a kid who's spent 31 games proving that he's not currently a good shooter.

I've liked some of Mike's recent decisiveness (and if his layups and runners actually go in, as they did yesterday, we'll be a much better team for it).

But there doesn't seem to be a lot of improvement in terms of reducing the over-dribbling or the foolish turnovers, the shot selection is still often poor (like Billy Edelin or Josh Pace, he just shouldn't have a green light to take those transition threes - that's not in his skill set at this time), and there continue to be real concerns about both his transition defense and his containment of dribble penetration in the half court.

 

[RF2044]

Not crucifying him, just pointing out a silly rationalization. And it's not one bad shot - it's a pattern of poor shot selection from a kid who's spent 31 games proving that he's not currently a good shooter.

I've liked some of Mike's recent decisiveness (and if his layups and runners actually go in, as they did yesterday, we'll be a much better team for it).

But there doesn't seem to be a lot of improvement in terms of reducing the over-dribbling or the foolish turnovers, the shot selection is still often poor (like Billy Edelin or Josh Pace, he just shouldn't have a green light to take those transition threes - that's not in his skill set at this time), and there continue to be real concerns about both his transition defense and his containment of dribble penetration in the half court.

Tend to agree. Some of the MCW criticism is really over the top, but much of the effusive praise is similarly off-target.

Kid has some glaring limitations in his game currently, hasn't always played up to his potential, and many of the mistakes he makes are unforced. He's probably not the transcendent talent that a few posters were trumpeting back in November, but he's doing some things better of late and isn't taking nearly as many threes as he was earlier in the season. He's a good player, not a great one [yet] who would probably benefit from returning and adding another off-season of development to the experience he gained this year.

Unfortunately, circumstances will likely prevent that from happening.

 

[OttoMets]

Tend to agree. Some of the MCW criticism is really over the top, but much of the effusive praise is similarly off-target.

Kid has some glaring limitations in his game currently, hasn't always played up to his potential, and many of the mistakes he makes are unforced. He's probably not the transcendent talent that a few posters were trumpeting back in November, but he's doing some things better of late and isn't taking nearly as many threes as he was earlier in the season. He's a good player, not a great one [yet] who would probably benefit from returning and adding another off-season of development to the experience he gained this year.

Unfortunately, circumstances will likely prevent that from happening.

This is the problem, not only that they're unforced but that they're the same mistakes he's been making for four months. One wonders how much of this is related to quality of instruction and how much is related to the player's capacity for responding to instruction.

Another good point: Mike's not nearly as bad as some of us have made him out to be and he's also not playing as well as others would claim.

 

[realorange]

MCW's biggest issue is not living up to expectations that others have placed on him. Which is ridiculous. Just because he was anointed as the second coming fans overcompensate when he makes any mistake. He has had some bad games but has played well as of late. Like the OP there are too many on this board who take off their orange colored glasses only when he has the ball in his hands.

Bottom line is he is a pretty damn good player, and this is a horrendous thread.

I have to agree with this. The other part for me is getting upset with him when he makes one of his jump in the air and throw a pass somewhere deals or get picked as he often does by a quick guard. I get upset because I expect more of him and he really can't produce consistently because he doesn't have the experience. Great potential, but he will likely get a chance to work towards that potential in the D League before he makes the big show.

 

[timkay99]

But there doesn't seem to be a lot of improvement in terms of reducing the over-dribbling or the foolish turnovers, the shot selection is still often poor (like Billy Edelin or Josh Pace, he just shouldn't have a green light to take those transition threes - that's not in his skill set at this time), and there continue to be real concerns about both his transition defense and his containment of dribble penetration in the half court.

There is improvement though (at least with the turnovers). He has 53 turnovers in 18 games in Big East play. As compared to 52 turnovers in 13 non-conference games.

Who on this team should have a green light to take a transition three? Southerland? Triche? Given how he was playing and shooting yesterday, I had no issue with him taking that shot yesterday.

I don't understand why people focus on his demeanor after TO's when every single Syracuse player besides Cooney and Keita doesn't hustle back. To single him out for this is weird to me.

His containment of dribble penetration in the half court? Really? I can't count many times where they dribble penetrate by him as opposed to passing the ball to the top of the lane...

When your other scoring options are shooting the below (in the last 5 games), how do you as a PG not decide to shoot more?:
Fair - 32/67 (48 %)
Southerland - 20/65 (31 %)
Triche - 15/52 (29 %)

MCW - 22/49 (45 %)

 

[Knicks411]

Who on this team should have a green light to take a transition three? Southerland? Triche? Given how he was playing and shooting yesterday, I had no issue with him taking that shot yesterday.

I'd say just James. He did shoot a good percentage yesterday, but how many of those were threes? He's a bad three point shooter. He was having success getting itno the lane and finishing.

The jumping turnovers kill me.

 

[timkay99]

I'd say just James. He did shoot a good percentage yesterday, but how many of those were threes? He's a bad three point shooter. He was having success getting itno the lane and finishing.

The jumping turnovers kill me.

I mean, he has taken one three in each of the last 2 games. It isn't like he is chucking. Take a pull-up, transition 3 in rhythm is probably the best 3 for him to take to gauge his shot for the day, especially after finishing the way he did around the basket.

The jumping turnovers come from a lack of adjustment to the scouting report. Most of those times on the jump turnovers, it is to try and get the ball to James behind him or a difficult pass to him.

 

[OttoMets]

There is improvement though (at least with the turnovers). He has 53 turnovers in 18 games in Big East play. As compared to 52 turnovers in 13 non-conference games.

Who on this team should have a green light to take a transition three? Southerland? Triche? Given how he was playing and shooting yesterday, I had no issue with him taking that shot yesterday.

I don't understand why people focus on his demeanor after TO's when every single Syracuse player besides Cooney and Keita doesn't hustle back. To single him out for this is weird to me.

His containment of dribble penetration in the half court? Really? I can't count many times where they dribble penetrate by him as opposed to passing the ball to the top of the lane...

When your other scoring options are shooting the below (in the last 5 games), how do you as a PG not decide to shoot more?:
Fair - 32/67 (48 %)
Southerland - 20/65 (31 %)
Triche - 15/52 (29 %)

MCW - 22/49 (45 %)

Statistics. Cool.

You're right - he's improved his shooting quite a bit in recent weeks. That's good. I still haven't seen anything to indicate that his taking a three-pointer (especially early in the shot clock) is a good idea. Could that be our fifth offensive option? Tenth? I can think of a number of ways that we're more likely to score than by having Mike take a three. Guys who shoot 28 percent for a full season shouldn't have a green light; I don't doubt that he'll become a good shooter some day. Right now, that's not an efficient way for Syracuse to get points.

And a reduction in turnovers is a good thing, too, though I'm sure much of this has to do with the pace of play: there was more opportunity to rack up a lot of turnovers in transition (which frankly don't bother me as much - he's distributing and trying to make plays) earlier in the year in back-and-forth games. As we've slowed it down, we're not seeing those turnovers. We're seeing the jump-pass to no one and the open-court strips, though, and one would hope that he'd have curbed that by now.

Dribble penetration - I dunno. Really don't want to go back and watch the Georgetown game again, but it's seemed that opposing guards haven't had too much difficulty getting into the lane lately. Not all Mike's fault, not anywhere near the top of the list of things one should criticize him for; I was just correcting what I thought to be an erroneous claim (that he's a very good defender who's limiting dribble penetration) in another post.

Also don't agree that his post-turnover demeanor resembles any of his teammates. Do think that a number of those guys look to need a kick in the ass (Rakeem moves at a glacial pace half the time; South's effort in recovering from his turnovers yesterday stunk). But I also don't see anyone else hang his head and sulk like Mike does after a bad play.

 

[timkay99]

Statistics. Cool.

You're right - he's improved his shooting quite a bit in recent weeks. That's good. I still haven't seen anything to indicate that his taking a three-pointer (especially early in the shot clock) is a good idea. .

And a reduction in turnovers is a good thing, too, though I'm sure much of this has to do with the pace of play: there was more opportunity to rack up a lot of turnovers in transition (which frankly don't bother me as much - he's distributing and trying to make plays) earlier in the year in back-and-forth games. As we've slowed it down, we're not seeing those turnovers. We're seeing the jump-pass to no one and the open-court strips, though, and one would hope that he'd have curbed that by now.

As it relates to the 3, the secondary break 3 pointer is a great opportunity to take an in-rhythm shot and see if the outside shot is an option that day. It wasn't like a half-court possession where he did it. I do find it interesting you say the turnovers in transition don't bother you much, but you have a problem with a secondary break 3 pointer? Can't you just chalk it up as a transition turnover and not be bothered by it?

Turnovers are down against better competition. Which means he improved. Whether pace of play or something else, he has taken better care of the ball in Big East play.

Now, the open court turnovers are absolutely a valid concern.

I mean, you gotta watch Triche after he turns it over and puts his head down and does that glacial jog the team loves after turnovers. Fair jogs. It isn't the biggest deal unless someone makes a great play and you have an opportunity for rebounds/recovered balls (like Rak yesterday on the one break), but everyone on the team does it.

 

[rosconey]

mcw cant run a half court offense- his assists come from the fast break

 

[Knicks411]

I mean, he has taken one three in each of the last 2 games. It isn't like he is chucking. Take a pull-up, transition 3 in rhythm is probably the best 3 for him to take to gauge his shot for the day, especially after finishing the way he did around the basket.

The jumping turnovers come from a lack of adjustment to the scouting report. Most of those times on the jump turnovers, it is to try and get the ball to James behind him or a difficult pass to him.

Not saying it's a big deal or anything; it's one bad shot. It's not like it invalidates everything he did, so I don't want to make too big a deal about it.

Agree on the scouting report thing; a lot of times it seems like when he does it he just has it in his mind that hes running that play and kicking it out to James no matter what.

 

[wadegarrett]

Wow, I saw the title of this thread and thought this was a joke.

 

[RF2044]

mcw cant run a half court offense- his assists come from the fast break

Unintentionally, this is probably the most astute post you've ever made.

MCW racks up tons of assists against poor teams, OOC and in conference. Against quality opposition, not so much. He really struggles to execute half court sets or set up teammates when teams take away his ability to get out into the open floor. His cause isn't helped by not having anyone capable of executing even a basic play like a pick and roll, but his execution of half court offensive sets is mostly for sh-t. And it sets the tone for the rest of the team. Our whole offensive concept this year is one-on-one play. Discouraging.

 

[CiceroCuse]

Is MCW the worst Syracuse PG since James Theus?

If you think I'm crazy then watch the past 10 games and notice his regression. He can't play within himself, turnovers are way too high, he doesnt make shots and he doesnt show any leadership.

I am as critical of MCW as the next guy but James Theus? Really? You do realize he is 3rd in the country in assists, has throttled his shooting back lately and been relatively solid shooting percentage wise. He does still have bad turnovers but ... James Theus? Way way off. Sorry just my opinion.

 

[Millhouse]

Your lame attempt at sarcasm is unintentionally the most astute post you've ever made.

MCW racks up tons of assists against poor teams, OOC and in conference. Against quality opposition, not so much. He really struggles to execute half court sets or set up teammates when teams take away his ability to get out into the open floor. His cause isn't helped by not having anyone capable of executing even a basic play like a pick and roll, but his execution of half court offensive sets is mostly for sh-t. And it sets the tone for the rest of the team. Our whole offensive concept this year is one-on-one play. Discouraging.

You can't get many assists with triche and Southerland bumbling like this

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[jdubs30]

You can't get many assists with triche and Southerland bumbling like this

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We went 7/34 against GTown if take out MCW; he had 2 assists
We went 17/46 against Ville if you take out MCW; he had 6 assists
We went 23/47 against Marquette if you take out MCW; he had 5 assists
We went 15/44 against GTown if you take out MCW; he had 5 assists

So in our last 4 losses, we've made 62 shots, MCW has assisted 18 of them, or 29%. I'm not sure how people except 8apg out of MCW when we're making an average of 16 shots a game.

 

[OrangeDW]

Flynn
GMac
Edelin
Scoop
Triche
Thues
Wright

Those would be my starting PG rankings since Thues, not including MCW since its hard to place a guy who is still playing. He's obviously ahead of Wright and Thues, that's just dumb to say otherwise. Ahead of Triche too.

 

[RF2044]

You can't get many assists with triche and Southerland bumbling like this

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No doubt--his assist totals have been diminished by his teammates not hitting shots.

But his teammates not putting the ball in the basket has zero to do with him overdribbling, being lazy with the ball and getting his pocket picked several times per game, or driving into the lane and leaving his feet and trying to pass out only to turn the ball over [or repeating that mistake 2-3 times every game].

I want to be clear: I am not anti-MCW. I think there are some things that he does pretty well. Kid has outstanding passing instincts and court awareness, and I honestly believe that a lot of his issues have to do with lack of experience and being fairly weak physically. I enjoy having a kid like this on our team, I just don't enjoy watching him play against top flight opponents, given how badly he struggles. And I don't think he's anywhere near the transcendent talent that many posters claimed back in November.

I am encouraged by the improvement he showed from Louisville I to the second game [everybody remembers how he played at the end of that game, but tend to forget how awful he was for the first 33 minutes], and how he drove to the hole yesterday and looked to get into the lane to create. I strongly believe that if he came back next year, he'd be much improved and be an assassin in terms of his effectiveness. Little chance of that happening, so oh well.

 

[longislandcuse]

LOL at this thread

 

[cusetown1]

I'm not mentioning his name but I'm sure everybody knows who needs to play better.

 

[longislandcuse]

No doubt--his assist totals have been diminished by his teammates not hitting shots.

But his teammates not putting the ball in the basket has zero to do with him overdribbling, being lazy with the ball and getting his pocket picked several times per game, or driving into the lane and leaving his feet and trying to pass out only to turn the ball over [or repeating that mistake 2-3 times every game].
\.

Yes it does. When noone around you is capable of functioning like a normal human being you press and make mistakes especially as the only viable playmaker.