Media

[Col. Bleep]

If I can take these one at a time:

1) Incapability of editing their own stories.
2) Bud
3) They "bait" Coach Boeheim
4) They don't back the team

quote]

You're right, of course.
But there are quite a few people who seem to take issue with anything that isn't "pro" SU.
Facts and argument are irrelevant if they lead to a contrary conclusion.
Heaven forbid, for example, that a TV commentator should DARE speak his mind in a way that doesn't favor the Orange.

 

[cuseinseattle]

If I can take these one at a time:

1) Incapability of editing their own stories.
2) Bud
3) They "bait" Coach Boeheim
4) They don't back the team

1) We've already covered editing. Absolutely an issue, and becoming more and more of one at newspapers the size of The Post Standard across the country. These reporters are asked to do more with less time. Mistakes are bound to happen. This is not unique to newspapers the size of The Post Standard. Definitely a legit gripe though, and something every newspaper (not just the P-S) needs to address.

2) I'm not a fan of Bud's writing either, or his take. He's a columnist, he's supposed to make you think, I don't think he does that enough. I'll agree here.

3) They "bait" Coach Boeheim. I remember the Pitino story. They never made a conclusive "he is a better coach than Coach B." You may have inferred that from the FACTS that they stated, and that's fine. It may even be true (heavens to betsy no!). Either way, they have a right to write that story, as they both are amazing coaches in the same league and the game was being played the next day. Not once did they state "Pitino is a better coach." That's your takeaway. In any case, why shouldn't they do a story like that? Are they not allowed to write anything that in any way should be taken as critical of the team or coach? Should they just write puff pieces constantly about how delicious Rak's biceps are, and how shiny coach's bald head is? That's what the SU Athletics website is for, not the newspaper. And by the way, coach has every right to lambast them for it at the podium. That's his right. When did the members of the P-S act appalled that he did that? That's kind of how Coach Boeheim is; I'd be surprised if anyone on staff was upset about that.

4) They're journalists, not backers of the team. Their job is to cover the team for better or worse. If bad things are happening they cover that, if good things are happening they cover that. That's their job. If your thoughts are that "The Post Standard should back the team" then I don't need to read any more. You obviously don't understand what a journalist's job is, so I get why you would hate their coverage.

Listen, I'm not saying the sports department at the P-S is infallible. They have made mistakes before. Big mistakes. But if these are your reasons for hating them, I suggest you just go on over to the SU Athletics page and get all of your Syracuse related news from them. They will be much more biased for you.

Regarding 3. Your are correct they never said Pitino was better they just pointed he had won 6 in a row which is valid but they erased the record before that because it doesn't paint such a dramatic picture. Donna acted like she was being unfairly attacked in my opinion. Regarding the PS article I am going by memory so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Regarding 4. I'm not looking for someone to run propoganda for the program but to run real thoughtful criticisms. For example right a story about how we have two guards who start and if one of them doesn't produce or gets hurt we could be in trouble because we have Cooney (who is one game into his career and is incapable of penitrating) and a forward backing them up. That is a valid problem to talk about. Don't talk about the weather for an entire article like Axe did on the dark side today. I myself hate the Coach vs Coach articles that span 15 years because the players change and it just makes no sense to me. I don't care who it's about.

We have a local guy who went to Syracuse in Seattle named Mitch Levy not sure if people know him but he claims to be the biggest Cuse fan on the planet yet talks crap about Boeheim every chance he gets. I met him once and said you know this hurts the program, I mean I understand you can do what you want as a journalist but you get you are not helping if you claim to love the program. I then said, "So why don't you like Boeheim anyway." He said because when I was an undergrad I tried to do an interview with him and he brushed me off and was a dick about it. Judging from his age this went down in the early 80's. Are you kidding you are still pissed about that and go out of your way to bash him. It's probably unfair but this is how I view the sports media as a whole and the PS sports department. A bunch of people that couldn't play or coach and felt slighted when they were 19 and now they take it out on Boeheim or whoever with all the ink they can muster.

 

[orange79]

Really? We just changed to a one party socialist insolvent Nation which has been aided and abetted by mainstream media and you rant about sports jounalism?

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Yawn

 

[scottynguyen]

ESPN.

The majority of the stuff they do - it's lowest common denominator bullcrap. Spouting cliches, sculpting narratives to wrongly explain why things happen, Top 10 lists, Skip Bayless, Around the Horn and on and on.

There's some good stuff if you want to pay for insider articles. Keith Law and John Hollinger come to mind.

But mostly, their entire empire is just ing terrible.

 

[OttoMets]

Regarding 3. Your are correct they never said Pitino was better they just pointed he had won 6 in a row which is valid but they erased the record before that because it doesn't paint such a dramatic picture. Donna acted like she was being unfairly attacked in my opinion. Regarding the PS article I am going by memory so please correct me if I'm wrong.
...

Actually, I think Waters went to bat for Donna and did say that Boeheim was unfair in his attack.

It led to a very long and somewhat heated thread on here.

(For the record, I thought that Donna's observation was a good one; that article is not an example of an unfair Sub-Standard hit piece.)

 

[OttoMets]

ESPN.

The majority of the stuff they do - it's lowest common denominator bullcrap. Spouting cliches, sculpting narratives to wrongly explain why things happen, Top 10 lists, Skip Bayless, Around the Horn and on and on.

There's some good stuff if you want to pay for insider articles. Keith Law and John Hollinger come to mind.

But mostly, their entire empire is just ******* terrible.

For sure. To say nothing of their empty-headed SportsCenter broadcasts.

ESPN has decent production values for college hoops, an OK studio show (though I did not like Jalen Rose in his new role), and maybe two very good broadcast teams. They also have scared up a very good group for Sunday Night Baseball (Shulman/Hersheiser/Francona), though I don't care for their production.

Besides that, ESPN is a horrible, E!-style waste of what used to be a pretty good sports network. "Lowest common denominator," by the way, nails it. (Sadly, it also describes the Post-Standard's target.)

 

[IthacaMatt]

The Post-Standard can't even do basic things right (like proof-reading and copy-editing). Worse, they don't seem to care. Even writers beloved by the good folks on this board routinely make ridiculous mistakes, and those mistakes somehow make it through some editorial apparatus and into print.

The broadcast side of ESPN is all style over substance, filled with empty-headed young people saying inane things about sports. And they were irresponsible with the Fine thing. I hate them. But they are at least a professional organization that strives to put out a good product.

It's not even close.

Eh, I think you're nitpicking. I don't see all these supposed writing errors in the Post. I think if you disliked them for their infamous investigation long ago that led to SU's probation, then I could understand that. But Mike and Donna do a pretty good job, IMO. The football coverage has been inconsistent, but again Rahme has done a good job, Nolan seems to be stepping up. I liked the guy before Rahme, too, although his name escapes me at the moment. I don't think I've had a writer I didn't care for at the Post since the guy with the slicked back hair and glasses who had a brief stint on TW Sports after he was let go a couple years ago.

And then, of course, there's Bud, who is a bit of a polarizing figure with limited interest in sports and maybe a little too much love for his own cutesy prose. But he's a sideshow; he doesn't do the actual sports reporting. If he did, then I would have more of a problem with his attempts to be colorful.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Really? We just changed to a one party socialist insolvent Nation which has been aided and abetted by mainstream media and you rant about sports jounalism?

Wow. You need help.

 

[OttoMets]

Eh, I think you're nitpicking. I don't see all these supposed writing errors in the Post. I think if you disliked them for their infamous investigation long ago that led to SU's probation, then I could understand that. But Mike and Donna do a pretty good job, IMO. The football coverage has been inconsistent, but again Rahme has done a good job, Nolan seems to be stepping up. I liked the guy before Rahme, too, although his name escapes me at the moment. I don't think I've had a writer I didn't care for at the Post since the guy with the slicked back hair and glasses who had a brief stint on TW Sports after he was let go a couple years ago.

And then, of course, there's Bud, who is a bit of a polarizing figure with limited interest in sports and maybe a little too much love for his own cutesy prose. But he's a sideshow; he doesn't do the actual sports reporting. If he did, then I would have more of a problem with his attempts to be colorful.

I agree with some of that. Rahme clearly takes pride in his work; he does a good job. And I have no problem with Bud. He's repetitive and seems content to go after low-hanging fruit (as someone else said, his stuff is not terribly thought-provoking or ground-breaking). But he doesn't bother me.

Nolan is terrible. Terrible, terrible. You can't get through an article of his without catching a basic grammatical or sentence-level error. How that guy got into journalism, I'll never know. (Donnie Webb, who he replaced, was perfectly decent.)

I don't read a ton of beat-writers' stuff in peer papers; it's possible that I'm being too hard on Donna and Mike. They do seem to have a lot of errors getting through, though. For sake of comparison, check out the Daily Orange. Not a professional organization, but same quality of content.

Again, though, my opinion of the Post-Standard goes way beyond the sports desk. Sports and food are probably their two most competent sections (though the scope of sports is somewhat limited). Top to bottom, it's an organization with an integrity problem.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Actually, I think Waters went to bat for Donna and did say that Boeheim was unfair in his attack.

It led to a very long and somewhat heated thread on here.

(For the record, I thought that Donna's observation was a good one; that article is not an example of an unfair Sub-Standard hit piece.)

That's right I remember that. Once Donna didn't even know where Bielein was coaching Waters came to her defense and when Boeheim asked Waters for his record against Bielein. Waters said, "I don't think you've lost to him." Boeheim responded, "He doesn't think that's how they act around here they think it's cute." I like Waters most of the time and do give him credit for standing up for Donna. I wouldn't call it a hit piece either but if the article is all about Boeheim vs Pitino then you have to include more than just the last 6 games. If you don't she should know that he might come after her and she should be ready for it which she clearly was not.

 

[OttoMets]

That's right I remember that. Once Donna didn't even know where Bielein was coaching Waters came to her defense and when Boeheim asked Waters for his record against Bielein. Waters said, "I don't think you've lost to him." Boeheim responded, "He doesn't think that's how they act around here they think it's cute." I like Waters most of the time and do give him credit for standing up for Donna. I wouldn't call it a hit piece either but if the article is all about Boeheim vs Pitino then you have to include more than just the last 6 games. If you don't she should know that he might come after her and she should be ready for it which she clearly was not.

I give Waters a lot of credit for that, too. Boeheim's record against Beilein, of course, wasn't in any way germane to the article. Pitino's was. Specifically, Pitino's Louisville record. (Don't recall where the 0-7 number came from; obviously the 1-3 against Kentucky and the whatever-and-whatever against Providence didn't have a ton to do with that.)

Donna did her job in what seemed a fair way. But she did have to know that Boeheim would publicly take her to task. (That's something that makes their beat a bit less than desirable - again, credit to them for not being pushovers and occasionally putting out something that they know is going to bring fire and brimstone their way.)

 

[OttoMets]

This is the kind of thing that makes the Post-Standard a poor publication. http://blog.syracuse.com/opinion/2012/11/sandys_toll_thruway_toll_incre.html

It reads like a five-year-old's argument. A logic professor's dream example of fallacies: straw-man, begging the question, gutless appeal to emotion.

They pander to a certain subset of the readership (using reasoning that resonates with that group) without touching on relevant facts. Disappointing.

 

[br801]

I don't think I've had a writer I didn't care for at the Post since the guy with the slicked back hair and glasses who had a brief stint on TW Sports after he was let go a couple years ago.

I believe that was Bob Snyder. Not the best I've read, nor the worst. More of a character than anything else.

 

[cpatrocks]

1) Fox News
2) ESPN
10) Sub-Standard

 

[dollarbill44]

It's not just the sports department. The publication as a whole suffers from the sloppy editorial practices you've mentioned. It's gotten steadily worse during the past few years, and they don't really seem to care. Makes me wonder if Advance's other outlets have the same issue.

The Wall Street Journal is rife with typos on a daily basis, so I think it may be indicative of the decline of real journalism.

 

[OttoMets]

The Wall Street Journal is rife with typos on a daily basis, so I think it may be indicative of the decline of real journalism.

I caught one in the New Yorker two weeks ago.

No one is better at that kind of thing than they are. If they can let something slip through the cracks, anyone can.

 

[cuseinseattle]

I give Waters a lot of credit for that, too. Boeheim's record against Beilein, of course, wasn't in any way germane to the article. Pitino's was. Specifically, Pitino's Louisville record. (Don't recall where the 0-7 number came from; obviously the 1-3 against Kentucky and the whatever-and-whatever against Providence didn't have a ton to do with that.)

Donna did her job in what seemed a fair way. But she did have to know that Boeheim would publicly take her to task. (That's something that makes their beat a bit less than desirable - again, credit to them for not being pushovers and occasionally putting out something that they know is going to bring fire and brimstone their way.)

I disagree. I think it makes being a beat writer better. One of the biggest problem for beat writers in my opinion is making a game sound interesting in the middle of the season. In MLB and NBA this is much harder because there are more games of course. If you are a beat writer and Boeheim goes off after playing Louisville and lets say the next three games are against S. Florida, Rutgers and DePaul you probably thank your lucky stars and right about Boeheim.

 

[OttoMets]

I disagree. I think it makes being a beat writer better. One of the biggest problem for beat writers in my opinion is making a game sound interesting in the middle of the season. In MLB and NBA this is much harder because there are more games of course. If you are a beat writer and Boeheim goes off after playing Louisville and lets say the next three games are against S. Florida, Rutgers and DePaul you probably thank your lucky stars and right about Boeheim.

True, it's not dull. He makes for a livelier beat than many writers enjoy, I guess.

Still, I look at the press getting berated by the Jim Leylands and Jim Boeheims of the world and I'm not terribly envious of their jobs.