Men's Selection Show: 9 PM / ESPNU

[nickp91]

Donna Woodruff should be embarrassed

 

[DoctahLexus]

This is one of those situations where the numbers and criteria can be used to support the committee's decision. I can understand the rationale for Duke with bad losses. Notre Dame is the tougher one given just how good they are in terms of talent and the "eye" test - they looked fantastic on Saturday. But...ND beat Duke twice and Cuse twice which would have been huge in past years. Cuse was a huge drag on the ACC this year which is the elephant in the room.

Of course, the other elephant in the room is some of the remaining selections - St Joe's, Delaware, Vermont and particularly Manhattan. These teams are included as conference champs/play-ins in the name of building the sport, inclusion etc. To be blunt, both ND and Duke are clearly better than any of them as we all know. IMO they should be conference champs but not included in the tourney unless they deserve it on their own merits.

At the end of the day, I would have put ND in simply based on the reasons everyone has talked about - phenomenal talent, getting better every week, close losses to 1 and 3 teams etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a little sympathy for the Ivies missing out on a full season in 2021.

Cuse being a drag on the acc is not what kept Duke and ND out though. It was that literally all 5 teams did poorly in key out of conference games early in the season.

 

[Cuse All-In]

Cuse being a drag on the acc is not what kept Duke and ND out though. It was that literally all 5 teams did poorly in key out of conference games early in the season.

I think we are both right. Your point about out of conference losses is very important. Had Cuse been even a top 15 team, the out of conference losses would have mattered less.

 

[Cuse All-In]

I think we are both right. Your point about out of conference losses is very important. Had Cuse been even a top 15 team, the out of conference losses would have mattered less.

UNC also didn't help this year with their poor showing.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Time for a Change? Committee Throws Curveball with Final Selections

Well, no one saw that coming. Certainly not Duke or Notre Dame.

www.usalaxmagazine.com

 

[Zack80]

Pretty obvious that I was referring to early losses to bad out of conference teams. So what if they weren’t in February this year

There was only one of those Jacksonville.

In the end, Duke was 4-4 in their last eight games, with 2 losses to teams outside the top 20. Notre Dame only beat Duke by 1 and 2 goals, Syracuse beat Duke by 4.

 

[DoctahLexus]

There was only one of those Jacksonville.

In the end, Duke was 4-4 in their last eight games, with 2 losses to teams outside the top 20. Notre Dame only beat Duke by 1 and 2 goals, Syracuse beat Duke by 4.

Im not disagreeing.

 

[CuseAlum87]

Well, at least no one can claim an ACC bias now. So there's that.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Well, at least no one can claim an ACC bias now. So there's that.

Give it a year! The same freaking out acc team fans will be praising the impartial nature of the system when we get 4 teams in next year. Ivy and/or big 10 team fans commending the process this year will be freaking out about ACC bias just like before!

 

[upperdeck]

Ivies got rewarded by doing will OOC and then Brown got hot and beat the teams in the league to get rewarded for that.

they had the 5 and then its a toss up.. Imagine if Duke had just played a few less games and the games they didnt schedule were the ones they probably should have won anyway.. had those bad losses been against better teams they probably get in.

 

[Cuse All-In]

Ivies got rewarded by doing will OOC and then Brown got hot and beat the teams in the league to get rewarded for that.

they had the 5 and then its a toss up.. Imagine if Duke had just played a few less games and the games they didnt schedule were the ones they probably should have won anyway.. had those bad losses been against better teams they probably get in.

The NCAA should hire investment banking analysts to come up with a better methodology for selections. The analysts stay up all night, full weekends and holidays to dissect client businesses and compare competitors. If anyone can improve it, they can.

 

[upperdeck]

hockey was like this for years and now its just a computer based selection.. doesnt really make it any better just more open and easier to game the system.

really is duke the team that beat a few good ones or the team that lost to some avg ones or somewhere in the middle.. id Duke was a Big east time people wouldnt be that upset.. ND might have the talent to get in that one is puzzling . but then who did they beat the last 6-7 games that is very good..

 

[Zack80]

Give it a year! The same freaking out acc team fans will be praising the impartial nature of the system when we get 4 teams in next year. Ivy and/or big 10 team fans commending the process this year will be freaking out about ACC bias just like before!

I view the situation with some amusement as the Ivy League was able the trade places with the ACC. The ACC has used the same sort of workings to get all 5 teams in several times. The ACC fans do lord it over the rest of us, but I'm not a particular fan of the Ivy League.

In concrete things, the Big Ten ususally gets 2 or 3 in, it got three in, nothing special.

 

[Zack80]

In the end, I am pretty happy in the selection of UVa and OSU. I really don't like Duke or ND and would not watch them, whereas I like to watch UVa and OSU. The timing of the OSU game is not good for me though, perhaps I'll be able to catch the end of it.

Of course, I'm looking forward to the Maryland game, and I am moderately interested in Rutgers-Harvard and Penn-Richmond.

 

[DoctahLexus]

I view the situation with some amusement as the Ivy League was able the trade places with the ACC. The ACC has used the same sort of workings to get all 5 teams in several times. The ACC fans do lord it over the rest of us, but I'm not a particular fan of the Ivy League.

In concrete things, the Big Ten ususally gets 2 or 3 in, it got three in, nothing special.

Prediction for next year that I will have ready to cash in on: ACC gets four teams in next year and several angry posters in the lax world start calling it a "makeup for last year" or "apology for last year." The reality is they will get in due to the same sort of calculations that left them out this year.

 

[CuseAlum87]

This is the last that I will speak of it: I just don't think Harvard is better than Notre Dame and the Irish deserved to be in over them. (and I despise Notre Dame and Duke for that matter)

 

[ivorytower]

Can stomach UVA and UNC but not ND or Puke but STILL . ND players were robbed

We directly hurt Duke chances by beating them . I was hoping that Cuse could spoil ND chances as well by beating them but we got mauled by them twice because they are the best team in ACC imo and definitely one of the few teams besides Maryland that could have hoisted the championship trophy. Wont be a Rutgers, OSU or Ivy.

Maryland fans will never admit that they were relieved to see ND out, only beat them by two early in season when frosh fogo was struggling and before Taylor insertion opened up the field for all . .Even then, Maryland needed a huge day from McNaney to get out with a win.

Sickening that a top five team is not in the tourney. Actually bothers me that Cuse likely cost ND and Puke berths by failing to close out Cornell in final minute .

Watched plenty of IVY play , wouldn't put any in top five , some delusional thinking Yale could beat Maryland, bulldogs have a good goalie but Terps would have a field day against that swiss cheese d of Yale

For those clowns who defend n cite some past questionable exclusions remember two wrongs don't make a right .

Fix the damn selection methodology or simply expand the tourney .

 

[Zack80]

This is the last that I will speak of it: I just don't think Harvard is better than Notre Dame and the Irish deserved to be in over them. (and I despise Notre Dame and Duke for that matter)

I was fairly impressed with Harvard's talent level in their game against OSU. It was only Harvard's 2nd game, so their inexperienced showed.

 

[Zack80]

Maryland fans will never admit that they were relieved to see ND out, only beat them by two early in season when frosh fogo was struggling and before Taylor insertion opened up the field for all . .Even then, Maryland needed a huge day from McNaney to get out with a win.

Not this Maryland fan. I'd admit it if it were true, but it isn't.
I am mostly worried about UVa. Georgetown handled ND out in South Bend, so I'm more worried about them too.

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

Not this Maryland fan. I'd admit it if it were true, but it isn't.
I am mostly worried about UVa. Georgetown handled ND out in South Bend, so I'm more worried about them too.

Do you fear the Terps would be overconfident against UVa?

 

[CuseAlum87]

Oh, I agree Harvard has been very good considering not being able to play last year. I think you could make a case for Gerry Byrne for coach of the year. That said, I don't think they are better than ND.

 

[DoctahLexus]

I know. I know. I know. Can we stop talking about the tourney selection. Apologies, but there are just a couple additional additional thoughts I have on some of the narratives brewing. The most amusing takes flying around on fanlax right now are ones like this one (an exact quote with plenty like it).

"Now you know how it feels to be on the wrong side of the rules of the game created by ACC."

Would anyone care to explain how the rules of this were created by the ACC? Literally the only thing the ACC has done to be considered the bogeyman is consistently do well as a group in out of conference games. That is it. This year every ACC team did poorly out of conference and they suffered as a group as a result. It's not like the possibility of a conference doing consistently well in OOC games was never an option for others right?? This was always something that could happen if a conference did well in OOC games from top to bottom! It just happens to have been the ACC that pulls it off most frequently because it has been one of the best conferences in recent years! People talking like they have lived under a dictatorship saying stuff like "For years we have suffered under acc rule" when the only ruling the ACC has done is doing better than the competition in out of conference games! People just love to be the victim.

I also think most of the talk about ACC teams needing to take a hard look at their scheduling strategies is overblown. One or two OOC games go differently and you have three in this year with all the talk of weak scheduling becoming a moot point. Something like Cuse beats Cornell and ND beats OSU and you almost definitely have three ACC teams in. Switch another one or two and there are three seeded ACC teams. It took a perfect storm for only one to end up in the tourney this year.
You could maybe look at an OOC schedule like UVA's this year and critique it. Basically if they didn't beat MD this year there was no way they would get any brownie points OOC, unless you bank on Hop competing at the top of big 10 which was far from guaranteed. Booking an Ivy would have been huge for them this year, and potentially the conference as a whole.

The only points that I agree with are ones about how Anish Quint and Co have a holier than thou attitude toward the ACC. That is true, but I honestly think the rabbit hole does not go much deeper than that.

 

[Zack80]

Do you fear the Terps would be overconfident against UVa?

Not too much, but UVa might have a chip on their shoulder from that game.
Virginia tends to be a team of runs. In the regular season game Maryland got the run, including 2 pole goals and 2 from ssdm Puglise. UVa struggled with injuries a bit later in the season (Moore, LaSalla), but has had an off-week and some easier games of late and might well have recovered. In the end, you have a lot of the same group for UVa this year that you had last year, a group which had the big run against UMd in the championship game last May and beat them.

 

[PhatOrange]

I hate AQs and we can maybe blame the Syracuse basketball team for that going back to 1981 when they won the Big East Basketball tournament and got snubbed from the NCAA tournament. It's the Syracuse rule.

 

[Cuse All-In]

Not too much, but UVa might have a chip on their shoulder from that game.
Virginia tends to be a team of runs. In the regular season game Maryland got the run, including 2 pole goals and 2 from ssdm Puglise. UVa struggled with injuries a bit later in the season (Moore, LaSalla), but has had an off-week and some easier games of late and might well have recovered. In the end, you have a lot of the same group for UVa this year that you had last year, a group which had the big run against UMd in the championship game last May and beat them.

I will never underestimate UVA after the last few years