Michigan-Michigan State Postgame Festivities...

[Cusefan95]

Why has the tunnel not been a tunnel for 100 years, and now suddenly it is two weeks in a row?

There’s been plenty of issues in the past. We didn’t care in the past. We care now.

**king fix it.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

i think one of the things that should come out of this is that schools with one tunnel need to come up with a better strategy for getting players on and off the field. This isn’t a new thing - the brawl before the ‘88 Notre Dame - Miami game is legendary and you can’t tell the story of that game without it - but our tolerance for it today is much lower. So yes, we have evolved as a society - the stuff we tolerated 30 years ago doesn’t fly today. We need to figure out ways to eliminate the issues we’re no longer willing to tolerate.

Having two teams going into the same tunnel at the same time is incredibly stupid. MSU should be embarrassed about what their players did; Michigan is, in my opinion, obligated to come up with better game day policies and procedures going forward as well.

How about people ought to behave

 

[Cusefan95]

How about people ought to behave

Because there is absolutely, positively no chance that will eliminate issues.

They’ve gone on in one tunnel stadiums for years. We didn’t care before. We care now. Pretending there haven’t ALWAYS been issues to justify not doing anything now is an absurd take.

 

[RF2044]

There’s been plenty of issues in the past. We didn’t care in the past. We care now.

**king fix it.

Fix what? It's a fixed structure.

It was a horrendous incident, those players need to be punished. But it is striking that in the 95 years that the facility has been in place, nothing like this occurred. For nearly 10 decades.

Now, in a span of a few weeks, it's suddenly a problem?

I don't care whether it is a heated rivalry between these two schools or not. Coaches need to keep their players under control -- **king fix that.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Because there is absolutely, positively no chance that will eliminate issues.

They’ve gone on in one tunnel stadiums for years. We didn’t care before. We care now. Pretending there haven’t ALWAYS been issues to justify not doing anything now is an absurd take.

How many multiple person assaults have taken place over the years? Show me that this has been a problem before. I look forward to the data.

 

[Xanadu]

My issue is that a lot of folks want to distract from the actual issue. At least 8, more will come, MSU players, coaches, and staff directly participated in, or allowed, an egregious assault to occur in the Michigan tunnel.

The actions of those MSU players that participated and the failure to act by those that did not intervene is the problem. The tunnel did not assault the players, the Michigan players did not assault the MSU players and did not assault one another. To go on a winding experiment of whataboutism amounts to shifting the goal post, shifting the blame, and ultimately blaming the victims.

They walked up a tunnel to their locker room. Maybe they talked some smack. So what? The logic of questioning the victim for why they became the victim in the first place is BS. People shift blame and say “you shouldn’t have got drunk at that party”; “ you shouldn’t have wore those clothes”; “you shouldn’t have been in that part of town”; “you shouldn’t have skipped up that tunnel.” All of those actions I just described are not the problem. People have a right to live their lives without fear of being assaulted. Show me where the victims took the perpetrators’ freedom to live their lives in peace and safety. It’s BS.

 

[All4SU]

You are blaming the victim. Walking around waving money is not illegal. Talking smack is not illegal. Bad actors are bad actors, and people should stop excusing them.

The perpetrator is guilty of the crime. The victim is guilty of stupidity - not a crime, but certainly poor judgement at least.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[Cusefan95]

Fix what? It's a fixed structure.

It was a horrendous incident, those players need to be punished. But it is striking that in the 95 years that the facility has been in place, nothing like this occurred. For nearly 10 decades.

Now, in a span of a few weeks, it's suddenly a problem?

I don't care whether it is a heated rivalry between these two schools or not. Coaches need to keep their players under control -- **king fix that.

I missed your comment initially, but in about thirty seconds of Google searching I found articles about several similar issues going back to the Ohio St - Michigan game in 1969.

It’s not suddenly a problem, it’s BEEN a problem for a long time. It’d be great if people would acknowledge that so it might get addressed, but I expect most people will bury their heads in the sand (like you) and pretend this is just an issue this year.

Absolutely the MSU players and school should deal with the just punishments headed their way…but it’s really irritating that we’ll forget about this by next season. Instead we’ll be shocked at this new horrifying development of an issue occurring (when it never has before) when two football teams enter a tunnel at the same time the next time it happens.

 

[RF2044]

I missed your comment initially, but in about thirty seconds of Google searching I found articles about several similar issues going back to the Ohio St - Michigan game in 1969.

It’s not suddenly a problem, it’s BEEN a problem for a long time. It’d be great if people would acknowledge that so it might get addressed, but I expect most people will bury their heads in the sand (like you) and pretend this is just an issue this year.

Absolutely the MSU players and school should deal with the just punishments headed their way…but it’s really irritating that we’ll forget about this by next season. Instead we’ll be shocked at this new horrifying development of an issue occurring (when it never has before) when two football teams enter a tunnel at the same time the next time it happens.

And as predicted, knee jerk overreactors (like you) temporarily got the vapors over what happened, before quickly moving on to the next sports scandal du jour to get similarly worked up about.

Which is exactly what's happened.

And if you're truly dedicated to this cause, feel free to walk the talk and lead the charge to fund the re-architecture of a 100-year-old structure instead of throwing out unrealistic suggestions and bitching about the rain. Or do what I'm doing, and applaud the indictment of those Michigan State players for their criminal actions, and hope that the eventual punishment serves as a deterrent to future incidents like this, and focus on the accountability of the people involved instead of blaming a building.

 

[Cusefan95]

And as predicted, knee jerk overreactors (like you) temporarily got the vapors over what happened, before quickly moving on to the next sports scandal du jour to get similarly worked up about.

Which is exactly what's happened.

And if you're truly dedicated to this cause, feel free to walk the talk and lead the charge to fund the re-architecture of a 100-year-old structure instead of throwing out unrealistic suggestions and bitching about the rain. Otherwise, focus on the accountability of the people involved instead of blaming a building.

It’s really simple - either create a procedural solution, create an engineering solution, or accept that this is going to continue to happen. Just like it provably has at Michigan for over five decades.

Get upset at Michigan State players for behaving poorly. Just realize it’s also a human nature issue. We’ve been humans behaving this way for 3 million years - I’ll take the likelihood of success of an engineering solution over the foolhardy idea we’re going to “educate” people to not behave the way they have for three million years.

My solution might be costly - yours is idiotic and unworkable.

 

[RF2044]

It’s really simple - either create a procedural solution, create an engineering solution, or accept that this is going to continue to happen. Just like it provably has at Michigan for over five decades.

Get upset at Michigan State players for behaving poorly. Just realize it’s also a human nature issue. We’ve been humans behaving this way for 3 million years - I’ll take the likelihood of success of an engineering solution over the foolhardy idea we’re going to “educate” people to not behave the way they have for three million years.

My solution might be costly - yours is idiotic and unworkable.

It's hilarious that you're so worked up about this, Abe.

The only thing that you're correct about is that it IS rather simple. If there is truly a business justification for modifying this stadium, then it should have no problem getting approved / funded / implemented. But everybody other than you apparently recognizes that what happened was an outlier, and that future behavior can be controlled using other compensating controls in lieu of spending hundreds of millions of dollars to change an iconic structure, pursuing a solution that might not even be architecturally feasible.

Instead of pontificating like an ineffectual dullard, put your money where your mouth is, or S.T..U. -- because it's unintelligent to tell others what to do and how to spend their money when you have zero skin in the game.

The alternative is the reactionary nitwit (i.e., you) ringing alarm bells like a foolish, sanctimonious, blathering politician, offering suggestions from afar that are straight out of fantasy land.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

These shouldn't be felony charges give me a break you can't goad a group of people like that and not expect to be smacked. They didn't stomp him out that badly. Couple game suspension is all that warranted.

 

[qdawgg]

These shouldn't be felony charges give me a break you can't goad a group of people like that and not expect to be smacked. They didn't stomp him out that badly. Couple game suspension is all that warranted.

I mean, when you swing a helmet at someone’s head more than once and connect, that classifies as a weapon. It kind of fits the felony charged the 1 student received.

 

[JustPherU]

These shouldn't be felony charges give me a break you can't goad a group of people like that and not expect to be smacked. They didn't stomp him out that badly. Couple game suspension is all that warranted.

Let me hit your loved ones in the head with a football helmet and give them a concussion and see how you feel then.Geeeez!

 

[orange79]

Let me hit your loved ones in the head with a football helmet and give them a concussion and see how you feel then.Geeeez!

You...get a couple game suspension.

 

[CuseCPT]

1. MIchigan players went in the tunnel looking for trouble, and they found it. They instigated.
2. Fights happen in sports all the time. In hockey, it's literally part of the sport. Arbitrarily enforcing the law is not fair.
3. MSU players should've been suspended for 1 game for general involvement, 2 games for swinging a helmet.

 

[Eric15]

These shouldn't be felony charges give me a break you can't goad a group of people like that and not expect to be smacked. They didn't stomp him out that badly. Couple game suspension is all that warranted.

The laws of society still apply in football tunnels. Draymond Green should have been charged with felony assault for what he did also.

 

[CuseCPT]

The laws of society still apply in football tunnels. Draymond Green should have been charged with felony assault for what he did also.

Do they though? You can't claim with a straight face that sports fights have historically been treated the same as fights on, say, Marshall Street. They just haven't. People love a good charging of the mound in baseball. They love when hockey players drop their gloves. Or should the law only apply in football and basketball?

Now you could argue that it should apply in all situations, but you can't argue that it currently does.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

The laws of society still apply in football tunnels. Draymond Green should have been charged with felony assault for what he did also.

Green sure but I think Poole getting a 160 mil extension is better than pressing charges.

Assault charges I think are typically lower when the victim deliberately provokes the attack. Thats what this is nothing more nothing less it shouldn't be seeing a court room its not like the game of football itself isn't incredibly violent either.

 

[qdawgg]

Do they though? You can't claim with a straight face that sports fights have historically been treated the same as fights on, say, Marshall Street. They just haven't. People love a good charging of the mound in baseball. They love when hockey players drop their gloves. Or should the law only apply in football and basketball?

Now you could argue that it should apply in all situations, but you can't argue that it currently does.

I’m surprised I have to even write the difference between a batter charging the mound and throwing a fist to a football player removing his helmet and smashing it repeatedly on someone’s head. But I guess I do.

But these arguments are like politics. Someone gets mouthy, gets smashed with a helmet and some people think that’s even/justified and others think in a civilized non-3rd world country it’s not.

I’m guessing if you cut someone off who’s riding a motorcycle and at the next stop light, they open your vehicle door and smash you in the face a few times with their helmet. You’d be okay with that and say, “well I was driving like a jerk and kind of deserved it”. Guessing that wouldn’t be the case but if so, good for you for sticking to your beliefs.

 

[CuseCPT]

I’m surprised I have to even write the difference between a batter charging the mound and throwing a fist to a football player removing his helmet and smashing it repeatedly on someone’s head. But I guess I do.

But these arguments are like politics. Someone gets mouthy, gets smashed with a helmet and some people think that’s even/justified and others think in a civilized non-3rd world country it’s not.

I’m guessing if you cut someone off who’s riding a motorcycle and at the next stop light, they open your vehicle door and smash you in the face a few times with their helmet. You’d be okay with that and say, “well I was driving like a jerk and kind of deserved it”. Guessing that wouldn’t be the case but if so, good for you for sticking to your beliefs.

Baseball players often swing/throw their helmet when they get to the pitcher. It happens.

I'm surprised I have to explain prosecution rates for fights that occur on public roads during road rage incidents and in sporting events. But I guess I do. Road rage fights get prosecuted 100% of the time. Historically, fights involving athletes at sporting events is probably well under 1%. It happens once in a blue moon.

I'd probably rather get hit with a football helmet versus a well throw punch, TBH. And yes, I have been in a fight before.

 

[qdawgg]

Baseball players often swing/throw their helmet when they get to the pitcher. It happens.

I'm surprised I have to explain prosecution rates for fights that occur on public roads during road rage incidents and in sporting events. But I guess I do. Road rage fights get prosecuted 100% of the time. Historically, fights involving athletes at sporting events is probably well under 1%. It happens once in a blue moon.

I'd probably rather get hit with a football helmet versus a well throw punch, TBH. And yes, I have been in a fight before.

Yeah, hard to argue with any of this…… because it’s filled with such odd arguments. But ok. We’ll agree to disagree.

 

[CuseCPT]

Let me hit your loved ones in the head with a football helmet and give them a concussion and see how you feel then.Geeeez!

My parents are in their 70s. They don't go looking for fights, unlike the Michigan players.

 

[Eric15]

Do they though? You can't claim with a straight face that sports fights have historically been treated the same as fights on, say, Marshall Street. They just haven't. People love a good charging of the mound in baseball. They love when hockey players drop their gloves. Or should the law only apply in football and basketball?

Now you could argue that it should apply in all situations, but you can't argue that it currently does.

There is a big difference between a consensual fight (like what takes place in the NHL every night) and an assault where someone is ambushed (e.g. what Marty McSorley did like 20 years ago, or what happened to Jordan Poole). I would put a huge group of MSU players against one Michigan player in the latter column.