Mike Hopkins to the Phoenix Suns | Page 53 | Syracusefan.com

Mike Hopkins to the Phoenix Suns

The list of three-time winners of the Pac-12 men’s basketball Coach of the Year award runs six names deep: Lute Olson (Arizona), George Raveling (Washington State and USC), Mike Montgomery (Stanford), Lorenzo Romar (Washington), Dana Altman (Oregon) and Sean Miller (Arizona).

Could Mike Hopkins soon join the illustrious list?

Yes, that Mike Hopkins.

 
The list of three-time winners of the Pac-12 men’s basketball Coach of the Year award runs six names deep: Lute Olson (Arizona), George Raveling (Washington State and USC), Mike Montgomery (Stanford), Lorenzo Romar (Washington), Dana Altman (Oregon) and Sean Miller (Arizona).

Could Mike Hopkins soon join the illustrious list?

Yes, that Mike Hopkins.

John Wooden was over-rated.
 
The list of three-time winners of the Pac-12 men’s basketball Coach of the Year award runs six names deep: Lute Olson (Arizona), George Raveling (Washington State and USC), Mike Montgomery (Stanford), Lorenzo Romar (Washington), Dana Altman (Oregon) and Sean Miller (Arizona).

Could Mike Hopkins soon join the illustrious list?

Yes, that Mike Hopkins.

Good things happen to good people. Congrats Mike!
 
Hopkins was just spinning the positives of taking over the UW job, and there are positives. It doesn’t mean he thought there was a difficult hurdle with the Syracuse job. He left because he knew JB didn’t want to retire, and he didn’t want to be the one forcing his hand.
I get that. Whether that's truly how he felt (protector of JB's legacy) or just a nice spin, at this point it's going to be difficult to walk that back when the cuse job opens up again. I am sure there are ways to positive spin it again but it will take some careful consideration.
 
So here is a question around Hop. Does his current job/venue play into the success cap and challenges? For instance basketball is basketball I get it. That said the familiarity of SU, it's facilities, the community, bond with former players and current assistants etc- I wonder if being able to have those things we don't talk about when operating in a totally different environment turn an 18-13 coach into a top 25 program coach.

UW has never been a very good hoops job- had some talented kids for sure but never seemed a program with enough stability and juice overall to be a contender.

You bring a guy back to his coaching stomping grounds where the little things, comforts that were gone at UW return.

It's not necessarily an analytical thing and it's a hidden element of success. The East Coast/ Eastern half of the U.S. is still the hoops hotbed.

These "human" intangible elements that come with being home can impact any person in their profession.
These are good points. Personally I think he overestimated his ability to get East coach kids to follow…and more importantly, underestimated the difficulty recruiting on the west coast without existing relationships.

Recruiting hoops out west is brutally competitive and muuuch more shall I say….grittier.

Having said that, there is no doubt in my mind, that he would real in top 20 classes back East.

But as someone pointed out, he needs the right staff under him. He needs a veteran offensive coach / someone who values skills as much as athleticism.

I’m confident he could recruit. I’m confident he can fundraise and connect with boosters.

I’m less confident he can game plan/coach given what I’ve seen.

But I think that people who are labeling him as a failure / non starter are over the top.

He’s going to be in the mix.
 
These are good points. Personally I think he overestimated his ability to get East coach kids to follow…and more importantly, underestimated the difficulty recruiting on the west coast without existing relationships.

Recruiting hoops out west is brutally competitive and muuuch more shall I say….grittier.

Having said that, there is no doubt in my mind, that he would real in top 20 classes back East.

But as someone pointed out, he needs the right staff under him. He needs a veteran offensive coach / someone who values skills as much as athleticism.

I’m confident he could recruit. I’m confident he can fundraise and connect with boosters.

I’m less confident he can game plan/coach given what I’ve seen.

But I think that people who are labeling him as a failure / non starter are over the top.

He’s going to be in the mix.

Though they are bad this year, Michigan hit the right notes on that with Juwan Howard by balancing his inexperience with Phil Martelli.
 
These are good points. Personally I think he overestimated his ability to get East coach kids to follow…and more importantly, underestimated the difficulty recruiting on the west coast without existing relationships.

Recruiting hoops out west is brutally competitive and muuuch more shall I say….grittier.

Having said that, there is no doubt in my mind, that he would real in top 20 classes back East.

But as someone pointed out, he needs the right staff under him. He needs a veteran offensive coach / someone who values skills as much as athleticism.

I’m confident he could recruit. I’m confident he can fundraise and connect with boosters.

I’m less confident he can game plan/coach given what I’ve seen.

But I think that people who are labeling him as a failure / non starter are over the top.

He’s going to be in the mix.
We always heard he was the good cop to JB’s bad cop. Can he play the tough guy role, or does he need to hire that guy if he came back?
 
These are good points. Personally I think he overestimated his ability to get East coach kids to follow…and more importantly, underestimated the difficulty recruiting on the west coast without existing relationships.

Recruiting hoops out west is brutally competitive and muuuch more shall I say….grittier.

Having said that, there is no doubt in my mind, that he would real in top 20 classes back East.

But as someone pointed out, he needs the right staff under him. He needs a veteran offensive coach / someone who values skills as much as athleticism.

I’m confident he could recruit. I’m confident he can fundraise and connect with boosters.

I’m less confident he can game plan/coach given what I’ve seen.

But I think that people who are labeling him as a failure / non starter are over the top.

He’s going to be in the mix.

I agree. Gotta have a strong staff for sure and he deserves to be in the mix.

Kind of an interesting note that you wouldn't immediately think of- Hop and Cooley at Providence are the same age..
 
These are good points. Personally I think he overestimated his ability to get East coach kids to follow…and more importantly, underestimated the difficulty recruiting on the west coast without existing relationships.

Recruiting hoops out west is brutally competitive and muuuch more shall I say….grittier.

Having said that, there is no doubt in my mind, that he would real in top 20 classes back East.

But as someone pointed out, he needs the right staff under him. He needs a veteran offensive coach / someone who values skills as much as athleticism.

I’m confident he could recruit. I’m confident he can fundraise and connect with boosters.

I’m less confident he can game plan/coach given what I’ve seen.

But I think that people who are labeling him as a failure / non starter are over the top.

He’s going to be in the mix.
As with players, coaches need experience. And Hop is finally getting that head coaching experience at UW. Results have been a mixed bag so far, but by the time JB retires, maybe he’s got it going at UW just enough for Syracuse to seriously consider him.
 
These are good points. Personally I think he overestimated his ability to get East coach kids to follow…and more importantly, underestimated the difficulty recruiting on the west coast without existing relationships.

Recruiting hoops out west is brutally competitive and muuuch more shall I say….grittier.

Having said that, there is no doubt in my mind, that he would real in top 20 classes back East.

But as someone pointed out, he needs the right staff under him. He needs a veteran offensive coach / someone who values skills as much as athleticism.

I’m confident he could recruit. I’m confident he can fundraise and connect with boosters.

I’m less confident he can game plan/coach given what I’ve seen.

But I think that people who are labeling him as a failure / non starter are over the top.

He’s going to be in the mix.

What's been most surprising to me is how a large subset of posters can't seem to separate their reverence for Hopkins enough to be objective about his performance, and the declining trend over the last several years. It paints a tremendously worrisome picture -- and as stated above, if we crossed out his name and submitted that resume for "Tom Smith," nobody would stand for hiring a coach with that track record.

Additionally, anyone who has watched UW play can attest that they play very similar to Syracuse on BOTH sides of the ball. So what I find especially disconcerting is that Hop appears to be a no-trick pony, who basically just copied the same stuff that JB does -- but as you point out, isn't nearly as good of a coach.

Personality / energy are great, but what we need requires more than just that. I don't want a Danny Hurley-type coach who is all about intensity but the product is slop ball.

As you state, Hopkins will be in the mix, but I find it difficult to believe that he'll be the most qualified candidate. Again, Wildhack has zero incentive to restrict his candidate pool to only consider in-house options -- that ship has sailed, and Hopkins got exposed. Three years ago, coming off of two consecutive POY awards in the PAC-12, this would have been viewed as a home run hire. Today, he has probably coached himself out of contention.
 
What's been most surprising to me is how a large subset of posters can't seem to separate their reverence for Hopkins enough to be objective about his performance, and the declining trend over the last several years. It paints a tremendously worrisome picture -- and as stated above, if we crossed out his name and submitted that resume for "Tom Smith," nobody would stand for hiring a coach with that track record.

Additionally, anyone who has watched UW play can attest that they play very similar to Syracuse on BOTH sides of the ball. So what I find especially disconcerting is that Hop appears to be a no-trick pony, who basically just copied the same stuff that JB does -- but as you point out, isn't nearly as good of a coach.

Personality / energy are great, but what we need requires more than just that. I don't want a Danny Hurley-type coach who is all about intensity but the product is slop ball.

As you state, Hopkins will be in the mix, but I find it difficult to believe that he'll be the most qualified candidate. Again, Wildhack has zero incentive to restrict his candidate pool to only consider in-house options -- that ship has sailed, and Hopkins got exposed. Three years ago, coming off of two consecutive POY awards in the PAC-12, this would have been viewed as a home run hire. Today, he has probably coached himself out of contention.

I want Hopkins. At some point he was the coach in waiting. He went to a school that has zero basketball history and has had minimal success. I haven't changed my opinion of him since he's at an outpost. The program needs his energy, recruiting and love for the community/school. I think he needs help and bringing in a real vet on the bench would be a great first step.

I think we're over thinking this one a bit. Roy Williams isn't some basketball svengali but he got to coach at Kansas where the program somewhat recruits itself and he can recruit. I'm not sure having an X and O guy over a recruiting guy is what this program needs.

I'll be shocked if Mike doesn't get the job. If he turns it down, I suspect Gerry or Red are the two candidates. John isn't going to turn to Nate Oats because it'll end up being an exercise in contract renegotiation with Alabama. They'll pay him to stay. We won't pay him to come at the level he will attract there.
 
My comment about “geography” wasn’t related to “massive metro areas.” It wasn’t even related to recruiting. Just a basic lifestyle question. If you’re a person making three million dollars a year, independent of all else, where do you want to live? Syracuse, NY is not going to rank very high.
Even if you point out to the candidate that Syracuse in the summer is just like Hawaii?
 
I want Hopkins. At some point he was the coach in waiting. He went to a school that has zero basketball history and has had minimal success. I haven't changed my opinion of him since he's at an outpost. The program needs his energy, recruiting and love for the community/school. I think he needs help and bringing in a real vet on the bench would be a great first step.

I think we're over thinking this one a bit. Roy Williams isn't some basketball svengali but he got to coach at Kansas where the program somewhat recruits itself and he can recruit. I'm not sure having an X and O guy over a recruiting guy is what this program needs.

I'll be shocked if Mike doesn't get the job. If he turns it down, I suspect Gerry or Red are the two candidates. John isn't going to turn to Nate Oats because it'll end up being an exercise in contract renegotiation with Alabama. They'll pay him to stay. We won't pay him to come at the level he will attract there.

This isn't a knock on your opinion -- you're entitled to it.

But would it surprise you to know that JW's short list a few years ago was Oats and Hopkins, and that Oats was viewed as the more desirable option? And that was when Hopkins appeared to be slaying it. Neither Red nor Gerry were being considered, and I find it doubtful that they would be now. Wildhack is aiming higher, and neither of them has garnered any consideration outside of our program. Both have a grand total of zero offers to be a head coach at the collegiate level.

Fast forward to now / today -- Oats might be unattainable, and Hopkins may have coached himself out of contention. So I'd expect Wildhack to not be married to internal candidates, just like he wasn't before, and for him to do due diligence to come up with a new list of guys. Might Hopkins be on that list? Sure. But there is no reason whatsoever for the AD to artificially restrict the candidate pool to in-house candidates -- ESPECIALLY given the slippage of the program over the last 7+ years. We need to reverse that trend, and the way to do it isn't to hire less qualified facsimiles of the current head coach, because the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expect different results.

You want Hop, and you aren't deterred by his performance at UW. I'm concerned that his performance at UW over a multi-year span of decline might be a true indication of his abilities as a head coach.

You say that you prefer a recruiter over an X's and O's guy. I say that's a false dichotomy -- why not get a a coach who can do both?

Instead of hiring a veteran former head coach as an AC to help a head coach who needs that type of support to be successful, why don't we just hire a coach who has a proven track record of success? And while we're at it, maybe get someone who is more in tune with modern trends in college basketball, instead of somebody who will just emulate what we're already doing?
 
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I want Hopkins. At some point he was the coach in waiting. He went to a school that has zero basketball history and has had minimal success. I haven't changed my opinion of him since he's at an outpost. The program needs his energy, recruiting and love for the community/school. I think he needs help and bringing in a real vet on the bench would be a great first step.

I think we're over thinking this one a bit. Roy Williams isn't some basketball svengali but he got to coach at Kansas where the program somewhat recruits itself and he can recruit. I'm not sure having an X and O guy over a recruiting guy is what this program needs.

I'll be shocked if Mike doesn't get the job. If he turns it down, I suspect Gerry or Red are the two candidates. John isn't going to turn to Nate Oats because it'll end up being an exercise in contract renegotiation with Alabama. They'll pay him to stay. We won't pay him to come at the level he will attract there.
Spot on!
 
I want Hopkins. At some point he was the coach in waiting. He went to a school that has zero basketball history and has had minimal success. I haven't changed my opinion of him since he's at an outpost. The program needs his energy, recruiting and love for the community/school. I think he needs help and bringing in a real vet on the bench would be a great first step.

I think we're over thinking this one a bit. Roy Williams isn't some basketball svengali but he got to coach at Kansas where the program somewhat recruits itself and he can recruit. I'm not sure having an X and O guy over a recruiting guy is what this program needs.

I'll be shocked if Mike doesn't get the job. If he turns it down, I suspect Gerry or Red are the two candidates. John isn't going to turn to Nate Oats because it'll end up being an exercise in contract renegotiation with Alabama. They'll pay him to stay. We won't pay him to come at the level he will attract there.
I wouldn't throw myself in front of a train if this actually happens.
 
If asked, would the Hopkins family want to come back? I do not know the answer. I am guessing nobody knows the answer and nobody will ever really know unless the question gets asked some day.
 
This isn't a knock on your opinion -- you're entitled to it.

But would it surprise you to know that JW's short list a few years ago was Oats and Hopkins, and that Oats was viewed as the more desirable option? And that was when Hopkins appeared to be slaying it. Neither Red nor Gerry were being considered, and I find it doubtful that they would be now. Wildhack is aiming higher, and neither of them has garnered any consideration outside of our program. Both have a grand total of zero offers to be a head coach at the collegiate level.

Fast forward to now / today -- Oats might be unattainable, and Hopkins may have coached himself out of contention. So I'd expect Wildhack to not be married to internal candidates, just like he wasn't before, and for him to do due diligence to come up with a new list of guys. Might Hopkins be on that list? Sure. But there is no reason whatsoever for the AD to artificially restrict the candidate pool to in-house candidates -- ESPECIALLY given the slippage of the program over the last 7+ years. We need to reverse that trend, and the way to do it isn't to hire less qualified facsimiles of the current head coach, because the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expect different results.

You want Hop, and you aren't deterred by his performance at UW. I'm concerned that his performance at UW over a multi-year span of decline might be a true indication of his abilities as a head coach.

You say that you prefer a recruiter over an X's and O's guy. I say that's a false dichotomy -- why not get a a coach who can do both?

Instead of hiring a veteran former head coach as an AC to help a head coach who needs that type of support to be successful, why don't we just hire a coach who has a proven track record of success? And while we're at it, maybe get someone who is more in tune with modern trends in college basketball, instead of somebody who will just emulate what we're already doing?
Tell me if i'm off-base here, but i assume this would be true for two primary reasons, neither of which are indications of their potential to be successful head coaches:
1) No (other) AD wants to commit his program to be a zone-exclusive team;
2) When you're part of a staff of all alums at a major program, and where the current head coach is 'old,' the presumption might be that the best candidate from that school might feel he's the presumptive successor. Why make an offer or even shortlist him? Unless there are obvious extenuating circumstances, like with Hopkins and his father/family geography?

But, none of that means our guys won't be great here, and none of that means other ADs don't think very highly of our guys.

I'm not one of those guys clamoring for Mike to return. I think it's a matter of some people believing it's going to be Red or Gerry, and they'd prefer Hopkins instead, because there aren't any other candidates from the outside being mentioned... other than the relative unlikelihood of poaching Oats. So, 'wanting' Hopkins is a mix of actually believing in his potential, given different circumstances, and basically liking him versus a field of un-named. Which is a reasonable line of thinking. Essentially, we had Hopkins, Red, and GMac, and Hopkins was assessed to be the best of them, and now, even without 'success' at UDub, he still has the same mind as the one that was assessed as being better/more ready than Red/GMac, and now he also has experience in the role.

There are two ways to think about it (at least two ways...). Either Hopkins proved that he isn't that good, or he's the same person who was determined to be the right person to hand the keys to and he still has that same potential in our scenario.
 
If Red or GMAC want the job they better recruit some elite talent. Neither have shown the ability to close on top twenty players. If they can’t do it now, I doubt they do it later.
 
UW's team this year is similar to SU's team this year in that they both added a lot of new players to their lineups. In both cases it has taken time for them to jell and now both teams are getting stronger and confident and winning games.
 
UW’s schedule is backloaded. Four of the seven conference wins are against Cal (2-10 in conference) and Utah (2-11), another is against Oregon State (1-8). They’ve had games against Arizona, UCLA and Gonzaga cancelled or postponed. I’d wait a little longer before deciding Hop has turned things around or is a COY candidate.
 

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