Mike's Mailbox: Is St. John's botched coaching search a glimpse into Syracuse's future? | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Mike's Mailbox: Is St. John's botched coaching search a glimpse into Syracuse's future?

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SU is a good job, but no where near as attractive as some on here think it is. Especially following JB and maybe even requiring the complete multi-year re-tooling of the program for a coach with a different strategy/style.

Lot's of risk in that for a "hot" new coach. who in most years has a number of good opportunities in which they don't have to supplant Duke and UNC at the top of the ACC to be seen as successful.

If JB's successor isn't on the staff now, we'll be shopping for a coach for which the SU job is a definite step up. In other words, it'll be a crap shoot.

The school does have a history of promoting current staff and of favoring alumni in coaching jobs. Desko, for example.

Fortunately for the university, the AD, and the fanbase, your opinion is not a realistic depiction of our current situation / financial wherewithal. The men's head basketball coaching position is, will, and will continue to be a highly attractive, upper echelon position for a variety of reasons -- not the least of which include ACC conference affiliation, the largest on-campus basketball arena in the nation, and a fervent fanbase that supports the program, travels well, and per ESPN metrics garners top 10 interest nationally.

What the school has done in the past reflected the station of the program / University and financial situation of those times. We are in a completely spot today as a function of ACC revenue sharing -- which is why we won't have to resort to "cheap" hires, hiring unproven candidates, or settling for candidates that are already on staff.

Tomcat nailed it -- we have the right guy at the helm, equipped with the financial resources to identify and hire the best possible candidate. What we saw on the football side with the last hire being a proven commodity with a track record of success stood in marked contrast to previous football hires, and this next basketball hire will follow suit. That doesn't mean that it will be Jay Wright, or any of the names that frequently get floated -- but it also doesn't mean that we have to roll the dice on some flash in the pan, or restrict our pool of candidates unnecessarily to those with historical ties to the program.

The one part of your post I agree 100% with is that the JB bashing around here is tiresome as hell.
 
I think a lot would depends on how JB eventual departure happens.

Everyone knows JB is fiercely loyal to his friends and the school (just look at his salary compared to other coaches with similar credentials) so I would say when he leaves the next coach would already have inked a contract with his blessing and he would have given advanced warning to the AD for him to begin a discreet inquiry. I am guessing the likely date will be when Buddy graduates and not sooner.

However if the departure is sudden and forced - health, scandals, NCAA sanctions etc...esoecially during the season, then all bets are off. Then most likely you would see a courtesy call to Hopkins, then may be AA will be named the interim head coach until they have time to do a more planned search.

Speaking of big name coaches - one who has ties to the school, has proven ability to win big time, is still a good friend of JB, is Rick Pitino.
 
I agree. Some ADs have little experience running a big organization and selecting leaders that will have a lot of responsibility. Say for instance, the AD at St Johns.

John has been doing it for decades.

St Johns has a reputation as a graveyard for coaches. Syracuse is at the other end of the spectrum on that front.

Then there is the comparative health of the two programs, the revenue each has to work with coupled with the current massive gap in facilities, academics and fan support and a reasonable person should be able to see the situations are not comparable in any way, shape or form.

More on John Wildhack: The best way to handle a coaching change is to identify possible candidates well in advance, make discrete inquiries, preferably indirectly, and have the replacement largely ready to go when the time comes. One good thing about this transition is that everyone knows it is coming and even the end date is pretty much locked in.

There should be no surprises. John will have done his homework and will be prepared to act. The new coach will be well qualified and will want to coach here. The new coach will be our first choice and Syracuse will be his first choice.

As it should be.
Agree. I would bet that JW already has a short list of candidates. He knows JB will retire eventually, and is already preparing for it.
 
I agree. Some ADs have little experience running a big organization and selecting leaders that will have a lot of responsibility. Say for instance, the AD at St Johns.

John has been doing it for decades.

St Johns has a reputation as a graveyard for coaches. Syracuse is at the other end of the spectrum on that front.

Then there is the comparative health of the two programs, the revenue each has to work with coupled with the current massive gap in facilities, academics and fan support and a reasonable person should be able to see the situations are not comparable in any way, shape or form.

More on John Wildhack: The best way to handle a coaching change is to identify possible candidates well in advance, make discrete inquiries, preferably indirectly, and have the replacement largely ready to go when the time comes. One good thing about this transition is that everyone knows it is coming and even the end date is pretty much locked in.

There should be no surprises. John will have done his homework and will be prepared to act. The new coach will be well qualified and will want to coach here. The new coach will be our first choice and Syracuse will be his first choice.

As it should be.

Spot. On.
 
I think a lot would depends on how JB eventual departure happens.

Everyone knows JB is fiercely loyal to his friends and the school (just look at his salary compared to other coaches with similar credentials) so I would say when he leaves the next coach would already have inked a contract with his blessing and he would have given advanced warning to the AD for him to begin a discreet inquiry. I am guessing the likely date will be when Buddy graduates and not sooner.

However if the departure is sudden and forced - health, scandals, NCAA sanctions etc...esoecially during the season, then all bets are off. Then most likely you would see a courtesy call to Hopkins, then may be AA will be named the interim head coach until they have time to do a more planned search.

Speaking of big name coaches - one who has ties to the school, has proven ability to win big time, is still a good friend of JB, is Rick Pitino.

Seriously dude, we are not hiring Pitino. Aside from the baggage, he would be in his 70s by then. This is not a transition job. This is a career position, period. Read Tomcat's post above. Nothing more to say.
 
Seriously dude, we are not hiring Pitino. Aside from the baggage, he would be in his 70s by then. This is not a transition job. This is a career position, period. Read Tomcat's post above. Nothing more to say.
I think he was kidding about Pitino. One thing you can be sure of, the next coach will have ZERO instances with any NCAA violations.
 
Seriously dude, we are not hiring Pitino. Aside from the baggage, he would be in his 70s by then. This is not a transition job. This is a career position, period. Read Tomcat's post above. Nothing more to say.

Pitino is 66, JB is 74.

I don't think Pitino is a realistic candidate either but for a different reason. Before he left Louisville Pitino was the #1 highest paid BB coach back in 2017, with a base salary over 5M plus shoe contracts. More than Calipari and K. Today in 2019 JB is making 2.8M where Calipari at #1 is making 8M base salary. I think just the compensation gap makes Pitino a no go, regardless of "baggage".
 
Fortunately for the university, the AD, and the fanbase, your opinion is not a realistic depiction of our current situation / financial wherewithal. The men's head basketball coaching position is, will, and will continue to be a highly attractive, upper echelon position for a variety of reasons -- not the least of which include ACC conference affiliation, the largest on-campus basketball arena in the nation, and a fervent fanbase that supports the program, travels well, and per ESPN metrics garners top 10 interest nationally.

What the school has done in the past reflected the station of the program / University and financial situation of those times. We are in a completely spot today as a function of ACC revenue sharing -- which is why we won't have to resort to "cheap" hires, hiring unproven candidates, or settling for candidates that are already on staff.

Tomcat nailed it -- we have the right guy at the helm, equipped with the financial resources to identify and hire the best possible candidate. What we saw on the football side with the last hire being a proven commodity with a track record of success stood in marked contrast to previous football hires, and this next basketball hire will follow suit. That doesn't mean that it will be Jay Wright, or any of the names that frequently get floated -- but it also doesn't mean that we have to roll the dice on some flash in the pan, or restrict our pool of candidates unnecessarily to those with historical ties to the program.

The one part of your post I agree 100% with is that the JB bashing around here is tiresome as hell.

You misunderstand.

I agree with just about everything you wrote which is pretty much from the University's view. There's plenty of money and a huge incentive to keep the ball rolling. Men's basketball has been carrying pretty much the whole load for decades. JW does not want to be the guy that kills the goose that lays the golden egg.

I do think that the University is aware of the impact of the whole compensation structure of the Athletic Department associated with giving the basketball coach some huge pay package. If that happens every coach on will be looking for some sort of adjustment with Dino first in line saying what about me. This will be followed almost immediately with the entire faculty --- in full outrage mode --- looking for more money complaining about the ascendency of athletics over academics. This ain't Alabama.

But, I think the great mistake much of the SU fan base makes is in over-rating the attraction of the job. This is a pattern at almost every school with a coaching vacancy. When Gary Williams left Maryland, the fans were hollering for Mike Brey.

It's not about big crowds or any of that. It's the cold-blooded calculus that a prospective coach will have to make relative, "Can I succeed there?"

And that's closely connected to another question, "What are the expectations and how achievable are they?"

So it's not about "Who do we want". IMO opinion, it's going to be mostly about "Who will see this as worth the risk?"

We will hire somebody and they'll be a pretty good coach. But it isn't going to be Jay Wright or anything close to Jay Wright. And the whining will commence. (It's already started.)

I'm also affected but what I have seen SU do for a very long time (50 years) with coaches. There IS a bias towards hiring internally. There IS a bias to staying within the SU family. Even for outsiders, SU has rarely been a stepping stone job. It's almost always a final destination.

Boeheim has been like the Rolling Stones of college basketball coaching. He or they might not have been the most popular or best in any year since the 1960's, but when you look at the totality and the consistency of their careers, that's when you see the genius of it.

Asking someone to follow that is a challenge.
 
Follwing on to my point above about the imact of a huge salary for a single coach at Su, caused me to reflect on the reason Boeheim never leveraged the University for as much money for himself as he probably could have gotten.

There's an idea on here that he's either simple-minded or so ridiculously loyal to the University that he just didn't want to do that.

I think it was a combination of three things (and some of it was wanting not to hurt the University.)

1. He's sort of one dimensional. He just wants to win basketball games. That was he has always been focused on.

2. He's not a guy with a lot of needs or expensive tastes. Anybody who could show up for a televised basketball games in the outfits he showed up in for years, isn't worried about stuff like clothes. His oufits screamed of the clearance rack at Marshall's until Juli got a hold of him. As far as I know, he doesn't have a vacation home in Florida or anywhere else. His culinary tastes run to Italian food not fine cuisine.

3. He was sympathetic to the University's point that "If we gave you that much money, everybody else would want more." There is a salary structure at a University. If you move the top of it up, it drags the rest up. Guys like Pitino don't give an F.
 
Head is exploding over here
The pasta places JB likes, while authentic, aren't five star restaurants.

Not much cheaper than a bowl of spaghetti and a glass of chianti served on a checkered tablecloth. Pedestrian fare for the masses.

Update: I checked. There's not a single Italian Restaurant in NYC with two or three Michelin stars. Seems like you can't get a dish or ravioli or lasagna at any of them. Of course, what do they know?
 
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Was the Tennessee AD incompetent he made some good hires at Kansas St Martin and Weber have done well there?

Our fans only want Wright/Bennett/Hopkins (the later most wanted no part of 2 years ago) we aren't ending up with Mike Anderson but we might not get a 'name' that everyone is behind from day 1.
The majority of the Cuse fan base is well aware we aren’t getting Bennett or Wright. You’re using anecdotal posts from a couple of outliers to paint the whole fan base as ridiculously delusional.
 
Hardly.

This guy is more positive than I am.

SU is a good job, but no where near as attractive as some on here think it is. Especially following JB and maybe even requiring the complete multi-year re-tooling of the program for a coach with a different strategy/style.

Lot's of risk in that for a "hot" new coach. who in most years has a number of good opportunities in which they don't have to supplant Duke and UNC at the top of the ACC to be seen as successful.

If JB's successor isn't on the staff now, we'll be shopping for a coach for which the SU job is a definite step up. In other words, it'll be a crap shoot.

The school does have a history of promoting current staff and of favoring alumni in coaching jobs. Desko, for example.
Here we go again with your nonsense.

“Especially following JB and maybe even requiring the complete multi-year re-tooling of the program for a coach with a different strategy/style.”
Basketball is not football. Hop did just fine in his first year with someone else’s players. If there’s talent on the roster and the new coach is a good hire, he can win here right away.
 
SU won’t be the only opening. In the next five years, Duke, UNC and SU will all be looking for new coaches. Be sure the coaching world is aware of this. I’m sure certain coaches are trying to line themselves up for these three jobs.
Exactly. Louisville got a great coach in Chris Mack, who was hugely successful at a basketball school but understands that Louisville has more resources so he can play in a bigger pool. That’s exactly the kind of guy we’ll get.
 
What are the examples that support this SU Tomcat claim?:

"St Johns has a reputation as a graveyard for coaches. Syracuse is at the other end of the spectrum on that front."

From what I see the school's reputation might be:

1. There's a strong, historic preference for hiring internally or hiring alumni.
2. If you do well, you stay here forever. (Except for Mac and Marrone)
3. If you don't do well, you are given a chance, but then are replaced like the string of football coaches since Mac.

In Basketball we have had one alumnus coach since the early 1970's. I guess you can say that Roy Danforth used SU as a springboard ... into the void.

In lacrosse, we have either a Simmons or Alumni/Asst Coach Desko forever.

In football, we have had a stream of head coaches since P. Only one of which ended up in better shape after SU than he was in prior to coming. Dino is TBD.

College sports is an infinitely different world since we made the Danforth, MAC, and Coach P hires. Also, football and lacrosse dynamics are complelety different than basketball.
 
The majority of the Cuse fan base is well aware we aren’t getting Bennett or Wright. You’re using anecdotal posts from a couple of outliers to paint the whole fan base as ridiculously delusional.

Who knows what the majority of the fan base thinks? Everyone on here seems to paint themselves as representing the majority (as you seem to be doing in your post.)

Nothing sure but death and taxes, they say. But I'll add another certainty. The inflated expectations of some/many/most of the SU fan base. The irritation of some/many/most with the selection process as their favorites are eliminated and the complaining by some/many/most about the eventual selectee as SU settling for less than they should have.

I'm reminded of the saying, "Confidence is the feeling you have until you understand the scope of the problem."
 
Follwing on to my point above about the imact of a huge salary for a single coach at Su, caused me to reflect on the reason Boeheim never leveraged the University for as much money for himself as he probably could have gotten.

There's an idea on here that he's either simple-minded or so ridiculously loyal to the University that he just didn't want to do that.

I think it was a combination of three things (and some of it was wanting not to hurt the University.)

1. He's sort of one dimensional. He just wants to win basketball games. That was he has always been focused on.

2. He's not a guy with a lot of needs or expensive tastes. Anybody who could show up for a televised basketball games in the outfits he showed up in for years, isn't worried about stuff like clothes. His oufits screamed of the clearance rack at Marshall's until Juli got a hold of him. As far as I know, he doesn't have a vacation home in Florida or anywhere else. His culinary tastes run to Italian food not fine cuisine.

3. He was sympathetic to the University's point that "If we gave you that much money, everybody else would want more." There is a salary structure at a University. If you move the top of it up, it drags the rest up. Guys like Pitino don't give an F.

One more factor; a million dollars goes a lot farther in upstate NY than in most other places.
 
One more factor; a million dollars goes a lot farther in upstate NY than in most other places.

Sure, but that only affects a few items like housing. (A big one, for sure)

Taxes are higher at all levels, especially now that guys like JB can't deduct all S/L taxes from their Federal. Lots of other stuff costs more like air travel.

He's taken less money than he could have negotiated for decades even adjusting for geographic location.
 
There are plenty of good basketball coaches out there that can be targeted to replace JB, they don't have to bust the bank either. We just need the guy hiring said coach to be competent, diligent and understand the landscape of Syracuse basketball which JW is and will.

People making this way too difficult, comparing the job to SJU is crazy. maybe comparing SU Football to SJU would be a better example but not basketball. Not everyone wants to live in NYC or LA as well.

People don't ever want to see the upside of a program like Syracuse either but there is plenty and will appeal to the right coach. Let's see where it goes
 
Pitino is 66, JB is 74.

I don't think Pitino is a realistic candidate either but for a different reason. Before he left Louisville Pitino was the #1 highest paid BB coach back in 2017, with a base salary over 5M plus shoe contracts. More than Calipari and K. Today in 2019 JB is making 2.8M where Calipari at #1 is making 8M base salary. I think just the compensation gap makes Pitino a no go, regardless of "baggage".
What Pitino made at Louisville would be irrelevant. Regardless, he won't even be on the medium list, let alone the short list.
 
What Pitino made at Louisville would be irrelevant. Regardless, he won't even be on the medium list, let alone the short list.


Agreed, to me the first call should be to a young up and coming head coach who expresses interest with regard to taking over the program and most likely will have ties to the area or program or solid understanding of Syracuse basketball, Said coach should have proven head coaching experience as well as a proven track record of success as his career has progressed.

Does this guarantee success? absolutely not but I like the process and line of reasoning. Who knows who will be available when the time comes but there will be people available.

And your damn right if Pat Belein demonstrates a certain level of success at Niagara for 2-3 years he would absolutely be on the top of my short list and again there are zero guarantees. He has gone through the ranks the right way and it's a very logical progression if he continues to eleveate his resume and demonstrate a certain level of success.

I think you need a guy with a proven track record as a head coach with a solid system that can work. If you hire the right guy from this type of level then you may very well have a long term solution.

If I were a current assistant at Syracuse I would be looking for a head coaching job and if you get out of the gate in a positive fashion you can separate yourself from assistants with no HC experience in a hurry.
 
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I think we will promote from within and that one of the coaches on the current staff will get the job. If after 3-4 years it's apparent he isn't up to it, then the real search will begin. based on a study i did some years back, when a legend retires, 84% of the time, the next guy doesn't do as well. maybe we'll get lucky.
 
when a legend retires, 84% of the time, the next guy doesn't do as well. maybe we'll get lucky.
maybe 84% of the time they hire from within because the legend has too much influence.
 
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