Money quote

[Aweart23]

Look at the USC game from the standpoint of Lane Kiffen (you may need to shower after doing so)

They run their offense no matter what
They expected Shafer to play more pressure, but he played three deep to take away the deep ball
They started slowwwwwwww
Adjusted off what we were doing
And went from there

I don't see any difference between what they did against us and what we did against SB

 

[GoSU96]

The first half was awful. Saying we got almost 600 yards and ignoring the awful start is silly. Why not have a big first half vs SB get a lead and cruise toward victory in the 2nd half? We CANNOT get to a Bowl this year if we have to always wait to the 2nd half to be successful. We can't afford to keep falling behind. Why is it that our opponents are dictating how every game is being played? Why do we always react to what they do and we rarely (WV comes to mind) try and dictate how a game is played? Isn't a huge part of the game of FB to impose your will? IMO using a strategy of keeping things tight and waiting to counter punch in the second half runs a huge risk of getting caught with a punch in the first half that you never recover from.

What was the defense that SB was playing in the first half?

 

[SmilinBob]

And then USC proceeded to lose their next game.

I like a team that can adjust and they did a fine job with that and now that a quarter of the season is finished we will see more consistency through out the game. Still, even with slow starts this offense is doing extremely well.

 

[kingottoiii]

Look at the USC game from the standpoint of Lane Kiffen (you may need to shower after doing so)

They run their offense no matter what
They expected Shafer to play more pressure, but he played three deep to take away the deep ball
They started slowwwwwwww
Adjusted off what we were doing
And went from there

I don't see any difference between what they did against us and what we did against SB

The difference is SB did not take away the intermediate passes and force us to adjust. We came out and with a bunch of screens and runs as our gameplan. Sorry but that is not what we do best as an O.

 

[rrlbees]

I took the wrinkles quote to mean SB looked at what we had done the first two games and put wrinkles in to defend/take away what we have been doing successfully against USC and NW. And that relates to what HCDM is quoted as saying...I don't know how they are conflicting statements..

This is what we are going to run no matter what...well they did some things to take that away...then we adjusted...

But your post and mine is different from the original post...which was we didn't run what we have been good at to start the game due to bad game planning

Axes notes don't translate as well as the actual pressed and what Marrone was saying. He described a process of elimination of what plays they want to use early. That says from what we want to do, not what the opponent will do or give us. Which conflicts with saying SB did things we didn't expect. If the dresser that was on TW13 right after the game is available, take a listen.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[SoBristol]

Double covered? Those guys were open all day long. We called designed screens from the get go. That wasn't because of the D they were showing that was the gameplan. We didn't even try and get the ball into Sales' hands until the 4th Q. Were they not trying to cover him then when it was a 4 point game? His biggest gain came the third play of the 3rd Q. He did not see another pass until halfway through the 4th Q. That IMO is unacceptable.

BTW who do we have in the coaches booth for the O taking a look at the opponents D during a game? You can sometimes see how a D is playing you better from up top. As far as I can tell we have ZERO guys up there on O. Isn't that a disadvantage? Do we really need all of them on the sideline?

It has been nearly 15 straight games now where the O has been falt from the start. Whatever we are doing is simply not working.

Seriously, how did some posters become so smart and our coaching staff so dumb? " ... whatever we are doing" in 15 games -- do something else that works right away ...

If you are SB, what is the one thing in the SU offense that you want to take away? (If your answer isn't Nassib to Sales, you might have been sleeping through NW & USC, not looking at film, and not reading any stats.)
By the 4th quarter, we were running the ball effectively and mixing things up. It makes a difference.

 

[Aweart23]

The difference is SB did not take away the intermediate passes and force us to adjust. We came out and with a bunch of screens and runs as our gameplan. Sorry but that is not what we do best as an O.

We didnt run many screens according to the game chart

Drive one- might have been a screen pass can't tell
Drive two- PTG ran the ball, second play was the swing pass/screen for 61 yards TD
Drive three- pass attempts were to Sales and Lemon- no screens
Drive four- one pass to Ashton for 8 yards- that was a swing pass- no other pass attempts

End of quarter
Depending on how you count the TD, one maybe two screens and one scored...

I'm don't agree about the running the ball against SB, they had a SS sized middle LB and we run the ball better/more than you think. It was almost 50/50 run pass against USC.

 

[Aweart23]

Axes notes don't translate as well as the actual pressed and what Marrone was saying. He described a process of elimination of what plays they want to use early. That says from what we want to do, not what the opponent will do or give us. Which conflicts with saying SB did things we didn't expect. If the dresser that was on TW13 right after the game is available, take a listen.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Can you get that out of town? Is it on SU Athletics?

 

[OrangeMojo]

Is Pugh coming back this week so they can have Pugh at one tackle and Hickey at the other? I think that will help with their early game offensive success.

 

[shandeezy7]

Marrone needs a confidant among the coaches who can say- yes, you know all of the angles, but what do you FEEL? His game time decisions so often seem out of rhythm. He always has a great rationale for the decision, but reason is only part of the equation and it is often used for non-rational purposes. It's not so much about what SU ought to be able to do in the particular situation, but rather what do you feel SU can do in that situation based on what is going on during the drive or the quarter etc.

Marrone seems like a heavy analytical thinker with a great memory for details. These are awesome traits. Sometimes it leads to drowning in data and allowing the head to get in the way of emotion. Gut checks are important too.

See: Girardi, Joe

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Is Pugh coming back this week so they can have Pugh at one tackle and Hickey at the other? I think that will help with their early game offensive success.

http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootb...use_university_football_o_4.html#incart_river

 

[kingottoiii]

Seriously, how did some posters become so smart and our coaching staff so dumb? " ... whatever we are doing" in 15 games -- do something else that works right away ...

If you are SB, what is the one thing in the SU offense that you want to take away? (If your answer isn't Nassib to Sales, you might have been sleeping through NW & USC, not looking at film, and not reading any stats.)
By the 4th quarter, we were running the ball effectively and mixing things up. It makes a difference.

So SB can simply take away our passing game? A 1AA team? Really? If that is the case we are screwed the rest of the year because they just gave everyone else a blueprint on how to stop our passing game. Those runs we had vs SB won't be as successful when we play more talented front 7s. Also we only had 21 points when we finally gave the ball to Sales. Are you saying that SB said let's stop covering him and stop the run, which was producing no points? Really? Also our WRs were open ALL DAY long. And how exactly is Sales supposed to get the ball when the gameplan consisted of runs and screens? That was the gameplan not what SB was showing. If it were the way SB was playing you would see a bunch of dump offs and check downs as a result. That did not happen.

 

[ConnectiCuse]

What was the defense that SB was playing in the first half?

They were running a 4-2-5. We initially ran alot and threw screens to force them to into a 4-3-4 - which we then eventually exploited with the longer passing game.

 

[OrangeMojo]

http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootb...use_university_football_o_4.html#incart_river

well crap

thanks Xtreme

 

[kingottoiii]

We didnt run many screens according to the game chart

Drive one- might have been a screen pass can't tell
Drive two- PTG ran the ball, second play was the swing pass/screen for 61 yards TD
Drive three- pass attempts were to Sales and Lemon- no screens
Drive four- one pass to Ashton for 8 yards- that was a swing pass- no other pass attempts

End of quarter
Depending on how you count the TD, one maybe two screens and one scored...

I'm don't agree about the running the ball against SB, they had a SS sized middle LB and we run the ball better/more than you think. It was almost 50/50 run pass against USC.

The first two passes were failed screens. The third pass was a swing pass/screen. I count it as a screen because the OL were releasing on the play to block downfield. The next two passes were to WRs. The Ashton pass was the same as the TD. A designed swing with the OL releasing on the play. So of the first 6 passes 4 were screens.

 

[dollarbill44]

The difference is SB did not take away the intermediate passes and force us to adjust. We came out and with a bunch of screens and runs as our gameplan. Sorry but that is not what we do best as an O.

SB was getting a lot of pressure on Nassib in the 1st half. He didn't really have much time for anything other than quick outs and screens. Whatever adjustments they made at halftime seemed to work because he had a lot more time to throw in the 2nd half and he was able to throw down the field more. I don't record the games, so I'm not really sure what the small adjustments that were made, but the coaches do deserve some credit. Btw, we did score on one of the first screen passes thrown as a counter to their aggressive D.

 

[kingottoiii]

This was the gameplan not what SB was doing:

For Stony Brook they would trim them down and stick with a basic package that would rely on screens, misdirection runs and deep passes.

 

[kingottoiii]

SB was getting a lot of pressure on Nassib in the 1st half. He didn't really have much time for anything other than quick outs and screens. Whatever adjustments they made at halftime seemed to work because he had a lot more time to throw in the 2nd half and he was able to throw down the field more. I don't record the games, so I'm not really sure what the small adjustments that were made, but the coaches do deserve some credit. Btw, we did score on one of the first screen passes thrown as a counter to their aggressive D.

That is brilliant. So our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd passes of the game were due to pressure? Really? How can that be? We didn't even give SB a chance to show how they would play us.

 

[OrangePA]

“The tendencies we had seen, it was completely the opposite,” said offensive coordinator Nathaniel Hackett. “A lot of the plays we were going to run against those tendencies they took away. We had to kind of readjust everything.”


That my friends is why we struggle at the start of games. Instead of running what you do best, we gameplan against what we think we will see. How many times have we seen the above quote or something similar? Rahme can pretty much skip the post game pressers and cut and paste these quotes.

Yes it is important to study our opponents and look for weaknesses/tendencies. Yes it is important to have plays prepared to attack that. However this is CFB where 90% of the Ds you face will not be good enough to stop what you do your best. K.I.S.S. IMO our coaches are over thinking things. We are out coaching ourselves.

Run the plays you are the most successful at executing and make the other team stop you. The majority of teams you face will fail to do so. Changing what you do so you can exploit a possible weakness doesn't make sense. Especially if that change is something that you are not good at executing. Or in this case if it against a friggin 1AA opponent.

This isn't the NFL where you need to find a weakness and exploit it. In CFB you can do plenty good on O without even giving a crap what the other team is or is not doing. We are best at being a pass first team where those passes are in the intermediate range. That is how we should start games off.

We are not good at executing screens. I think I can count on one hand the number we ran the first two games and none were all that successful. So why run 10 of them against Stony Brook? Sure one of them worked like magic but the other 9 resulted in a combined 29 yards and killed some drives. Our success rate on those 10 plays was 30%. Even with the big play, the screens averaged less yards per play than the other passes. I rather have a 65% success rate and keep drives going, rather than have a 30% rate just so you can get that 1 in 10 big play. Not saying do not try for the homerun, but do not always swing for the fences.

So, don't game plan?

The Rahme article this AM seems to contradict the premise of your complaint.

We decided to simplify and do the things we had been doing well including screens.

 

[kingottoiii]

So, don't game plan?

The Rahme article this AM seems to contradict the premise of your complaint.

We decided to simplify and do the things we had been doing well including screens.

Actually his article proved my point but thanks for playing. And we had been running screens well? :crazy:

 

[dollarbill44]

That is brilliant. So our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd passes of the game were due to pressure? Really? How can that be? We didn't even give SB a chance to show how they would play us.

Thanks, I haven't been called brilliant in a while. Still, I find it hard to beat up the coaches when we got a TD on a play we ran 5 or 6 times. If you run up the gut 5 times and one is for a TD, do you kill the coaches over that? (Granted, on this board we would).

Regardless, we didn't struggle to score because of the screen passes, imo. Fans are a fickle bunch.

 

[GoSU96]

They were running a 4-2-5. We initially ran alot and threw screens to force them to into a 4-3-4 - which we then eventually exploited with the longer passing game.

Bingo.

They played a ton of cover 4 with a corner manned up on the field side WR. They had six in the box, and SU didn't run as much as they should have early.

 

[Cuseman78]

So SB can simply take away our passing game? A 1AA team? Really? If that is the case we are screwed the rest of the year because they just gave everyone else a blueprint on how to stop our passing game. Those runs we had vs SB won't be as successful when we play more talented front 7s. Also we only had 21 points when we finally gave the ball to Sales. Are you saying that SB said let's stop covering him and stop the run, which was producing no points? Really? Also our WRs were open ALL DAY long. And how exactly is Sales supposed to get the ball when the gameplan consisted of runs and screens? That was the gameplan not what SB was showing. If it were the way SB was playing you would see a bunch of dump offs and check downs as a result. That did not happen.

Exactly, I guess SB's coach went in at the half and made an adjustment to not cover Marcus Sales. Sales was open all day. We clearly made a concerted effort early to (a) establish the run and (b) use the screen/short passes. I think your point was that against an FCS team that you should be able to impose your will by doing what you do best. I don't disagree with that.

 

[GoSU96]

So SB can simply take away our passing game? A 1AA team? Really? If that is the case we are screwed the rest of the year because they just gave everyone else a blueprint on how to stop our passing game. Those runs we had vs SB won't be as successful when we play more talented front 7s. Also we only had 21 points when we finally gave the ball to Sales. Are you saying that SB said let's stop covering him and stop the run, which was producing no points? Really? Also our WRs were open ALL DAY long. And how exactly is Sales supposed to get the ball when the gameplan consisted of runs and screens? That was the gameplan not what SB was showing. If it were the way SB was playing you would see a bunch of dump offs and check downs as a result. That did not happen.

Ugh.

Go back and watch the game.

 

[kingottoiii]

Thanks, I haven't been called brilliant in a while. Still, I find it hard to beat up the coaches when we got a TD on a play we ran 5 or 6 times. If you run up the gut 5 times and one is for a TD, do you kill the coaches over that? (Granted, on this board we would).

Regardless, we didn't struggle to score because of the screen passes, imo. Fans are a fickle bunch.

We struggled because we went away from our bread and butter by design. That IMO does not make sense. The last 15 games we have not started off with our bread and butter by design. That IMO makes no sense.