More Context

qdawgg

Night Biking Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
8,709
Like
9,171
Lions could have have beat the Bears on Sunday too but nope, Same Old Lions. Same Old Devito, Same Old lack of ingenuity, Sat was a continuation of last year, it was like the same exact thing all over with a better defensive scheme.
I’m sorry but the Lions were not going to beat my Bears.
 

GoSU96

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
13,593
Like
17,164
I expected a better running game, I know the offense should work and I just don't understand why they can't run the ball at all
G-C-G, loss of top three RB's from last year, Devito obviously isn't Dungey (and I hope he's never asked to be), new OC, minimal preparation time.

I'd throw in Jackson leaving early as well. If he was on the field along with Harris that would help loosen things up.

And it's not like they ran the ball like this all of last year. 2nd half of the year, and I get some of those were still brutal games overall, they went for 192, 159, 286, 261, and 180.
 

RF2044

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
23,531
Like
58,689
Thank you for saying it...many on here just can't come to grips that Dino could be part of the problem. However, I do think he can also be the "fixer". These are his players so I am pretty sick of hearing about the OL not producing or RB''s not producing. That all falls on Dino. His players, his system, his coaches.
Was Dino responsible for the 5 OL being injured, 4 of whom play OG? Was Dino responsible for the NCAA inexplicably not clearing Chris Bleich's waiver?

"Dino recruits the players -- it all falls on him." Okay... but having such extensive injuries plaguing one position -- guard -- is a really bad stroke of luck. This isn't just a player or two we're talking about, in which case griping about depth would be fine. Of the six guys we have to play the position, only ONE is healthy -- 4 are out, and the transfer [who is also hurt, BTW] got screwed by the NCAA. It doesn't matter whether you're sick of hearing about it or not -- dem's the facts.

These inconvenient truths make things not nearly as cut and dry as how some would prefer to pretend.
 

GoSU96

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
13,593
Like
17,164
The wideout thing blows my mind. I exaggerate this but like 2 years ago, maybe 1, didn’t we have like 15 wideouts? I remember saying how absurd it was. I guess the strategy is- get as many as possible (quantity), and hope that %s allow for quality ones to step up.

Where are all of these guys? Thankfully we saw some stuff from Queeley. Hope he keeps it up.
Yeah, that was probably me, tons of WR's and DB's. Serious depth issues on the lines.

He's been clear about trying to lift the bottom of the roster, but it has created some balance issues on the roster.

Seems like every year there is a positional group that has a major questions.
 

GoSU96

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
13,593
Like
17,164
You may not be wrong. However, in my opinion, when you try and hurry up the tempo, your skill deficiency is magnified and so is the score differential. If you run 40 plays a game and lose by 10, one could reason that if you double the plays (80), you will lose by 20. Tempo used to be a big advantage. Not sure it is any longer.
If you go three and out 16 times, that's a problem. But if you can execute at all, you are increasing your point potential. Have to be reasonably efficient, if you can't get out of your own way, yep = blowouts.

The other option is to have white knuckle rock fights and try to be perfect (no TO's and play field position bend don't break) and steal games in the 4th.
 

TheCusian

Living Legend
Joined
Sep 24, 2012
Messages
18,688
Like
24,422
Lions could have have beat the Bears on Sunday too but nope, Same Old Lions. Same Old Devito, Same Old lack of ingenuity, Sat was a continuation of last year, it was like the same exact thing all over with a better defensive scheme.
Lol. Yeah, the futility was implied by the "left some points out there"

I get it. We are supposed to have a big pity party. No excuses! It's time to feel bad and get real angry.

Sorry man, 2020 sucks and I'm not adding on dumb sports. Find the positives, know the season will be one of growing pains. If we don't see enough this year and prob next, you'll have a new coach to get angry at

(Also, if you're a Lions fan and a Syracuse fan, might want to take up soccer. Pick Liverpool or Man City and feel what it's like to win)
 

TheCusian

Living Legend
Joined
Sep 24, 2012
Messages
18,688
Like
24,422
We for sure left 17 points - AT A MINIMUM - out on the field, and all of which was due to our mistakes, not anything UNC did or did not do.

Punt return TD - I still think that’s a weak call, as Tuazama hit the guy IN THE CHEST with his shoulder.
That said - he didn’t need to make that block anyway, as Nyk already was accelerating past the would-be tackler, who didn’t have the angle or speed to touch him. Sucks


Dropped TD pass - Sharod WIDE OPEN behind D, ball delivered on time and somehow went between his arms.
A P5 WR HAS to make that catch 99x out of 100. Guess this was that 1.
Or Sharod isn’t a P5 WR.

Missed chip-shot FG - Szmyt Happens is usually a good thing, but while he was lining that up, I thought he was gonna miss it R, and he did. There’s your cover right there.

It likely would have been a MUCH different game had we scored 23 points rather than just 6.
And even if not, we’d all feel a LOT better about this team if we’d lost what really was a much closer game for 3 quarters.
Coulda-shoulda-woulda.

But if that punt return hadn't been called back, and if Sharrod didn't alligator-arm that WIDE OPEN TD PASS that Tommy put right on the money...

Would have been interesting to play from ahead in the second half, and put some pressure on them. Would have made the game totally different.
For all those ripping my take, this is what I meant.
 

JeremyCuse

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
28,400
Like
25,891
Was Dino responsible for the 5 OL being injured, 4 of whom play OG? Was Dino responsible for the NCAA inexplicably not clearing Chris Bleich's waiver?

"Dino recruits the players -- it all falls on him." Okay... but having such extensive injuries plaguing one position -- guard -- is a really bad stroke of luck. This isn't just a player or two we're talking about, in which case griping about depth would be fine. Of the six guys we have to play the position, only ONE is healthy -- 4 are out, and the transfer [who is also hurt, BTW] got screwed by the NCAA. It doesn't matter whether you're sick of hearing about it or not -- dem's the facts.

These inconvenient truths make things not nearly as cut and dry as how some would prefer to pretend.
Bleich got screwed but he isn't close to being ready anyway (still recovering from Sx) so its moot but ya if he was healthy it would be a big help. Also White from what I have heard is not hurt.
 

Pyle

All Conference
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Messages
2,847
Like
4,047
Lol. Yeah, the futility was implied by the "left some points out there"

I get it. We are supposed to have a big pity party. No excuses! It's time to feel bad and get real angry.

Sorry man, 2020 sucks and I'm not adding on dumb sports. Find the positives, know the season will be one of growing pains. If we don't see enough this year and prob next, you'll have a new coach to get angry at

(Also, if you're a Lions fan and a Syracuse fan, might want to take up soccer. Pick Liverpool or Man City and feel what it's like to win)
Lions and Cuse all the way. Here's what makes it even worse for me. I really didn't start following the team until after McNabb left because I was too busy chasing sorority girls and rave parties in college to care about football. I make a promise to myself once I had a career that I was going to get season tickets. But I was in Albany when McNabb was winning. We didn't care about our own Danes let alone the team 2 hours down 90. So yes I am both a Lions and Cuse fan, and a Cuse fan that has known about as many winning seasons as I have fingers on me left hand.

2020 has taken away my Dad, my step-dad, my dog, my poker league, and my bowling leage. Football was the first thing I've looked forward to in months. This last weekend felt like a high-heeled pump to my nether regions. Pity-party no but I expected better than this and I feel most fans should.
 

Killdozer

2nd String
Joined
Jan 15, 2014
Messages
836
Like
1,213
Was Dino responsible for the 5 OL being injured, 4 of whom play OG? Was Dino responsible for the NCAA inexplicably not clearing Chris Bleich's waiver?

"Dino recruits the players -- it all falls on him." Okay... but having such extensive injuries plaguing one position -- guard -- is a really bad stroke of luck. This isn't just a player or two we're talking about, in which case griping about depth would be fine. Of the six guys we have to play the position, only ONE is healthy -- 4 are out, and the transfer [who is also hurt, BTW] got screwed by the NCAA. It doesn't matter whether you're sick of hearing about it or not -- dem's the facts.

These inconvenient truths make things not nearly as cut and dry as how some would prefer to pretend.
What about his other four years at the helm. SU beats Clemson then proceeds to lose the next 5 games. That is all coaching. Just like beating Clemson. You can't blame everything on OL injuries. Dem the facts.
 

RF2044

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
23,531
Like
58,689
What about his other four years at the helm. SU beats Clemson then proceeds to lose the next 5 games. That is all coaching. Just like beating Clemson. You can't blame everything on OL injuries. Dem the facts.
I'm not blaming EVERYTHING on OL injuries -- learn to read. There are LOTS of reasons why we stunk on Saturday. But OL is a major reason, and probably the top one.

Unlike you, however, I understand that not everything boils down to a single black-and-white interpretation [even though those are much easier for many to wrap their heads around], that there isn't always a magic bullet explanation that explains everything, and that outlining reasons is not the same as making excuses.

Dem the facts. But if you don't think that the massive OL injury issue didn't impact what we saw Saturday, not sure what to tell you. And no -- I don't think that it is Dino's fault that all these OL got injured at the same time, I think it is just rotten timing and lousy circumstantial luck.
 

Orijinal

All Conference
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
2,480
Like
3,906
From Dino's comments, he does not seem to believe that Elmore is the problem. In fact, he thinks Elmore is a bright spot. I don't think the problems are on the offensive line.

I think it could be 3 things:
1) A new offensive coordinator only having a fall camp ...and an awkward one at that ...to prep this offense

2) I believe that in this offense, the wide receivers and QB need the reps AND timing, and hence because #1 is an issue, #2 is an issue.

3) This offense is just beginning to be installed under Gilbert (although much should be familiar), but the play calling and play book will only expand and breathe as the season progresses.

This is my thought. And I have hope based on the OP that we are seeing only a hiccup due to these reasons
 

TheCusian

Living Legend
Joined
Sep 24, 2012
Messages
18,688
Like
24,422
Lions and Cuse all the way. Here's what makes it even worse for me. I really didn't start following the team until after McNabb left because I was too busy chasing sorority girls and rave parties in college to care about football. I make a promise to myself once I had a career that I was going to get season tickets. But I was in Albany when McNabb was winning. We didn't care about our own Danes let alone the team 2 hours down 90. So yes I am both a Lions and Cuse fan, and a Cuse fan that has known about as many winning seasons as I have fingers on me left hand.

2020 has taken away my Dad, my step-dad, my dog, my poker league, and my bowling leage. Football was the first thing I've looked forward to in months. This last weekend felt like a high-heeled pump to my nether regions. Pity-party no but I expected better than this and I feel most fans should.
Truly sorry for your losses Pyle. 2020 does suck.

I take the opposite tack. So much crap in 2020, I’m not letting football piss me off too much. Not worth it
 

Orijinal

All Conference
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
2,480
Like
3,906
How different is the offense, really? I really thought it was going to essentially the same just some new wrinkles - install time really should be minimal if so. Yes, timing probably impacted by limited spring and fall camps.
I'm not sure how much different. But Dino has stressed that Gilbert is a different personality. I would think there must be some adjustment to the things he really wants to stress and what he wants to see out of the offense
 

Orijinal

All Conference
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
2,480
Like
3,906
From Dino's comments, he does not seem to believe that Elmore is the problem. In fact, he thinks Elmore is a bright spot. I don't think the problems are on the offensive line.

I think it could be 3 things:
1) A new offensive coordinator only having a fall camp ...and an awkward one at that ...to prep this offense

2) I believe that in this offense, the wide receivers and QB need the reps AND timing, and hence because #1 is an issue, #2 is an issue.

3) This offense is just beginning to be installed under Gilbert (although much should be familiar), but the play calling and play book will only expand and breathe as the season progresses.

This is my thought. And I have hope based on the OP that we are seeing only a hiccup due to these reasons
I actually posted this before I watched the last 75% of Dino's latest press conference. These are essentially the things he discussed and some of the things the press is thinking based on the questions raised
 

longtimefan

All American
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Messages
5,891
Like
5,964
What about his other four years at the helm. SU beats Clemson then proceeds to lose the next 5 games. That is all coaching. Just like beating Clemson. You can't blame everything on OL injuries. Dem the facts.
The big variable in the first 2 years--Dungey's injuries. Both of those teams might have been .500 if he had stayed healthy.

Of course, that might lead one to conclude that Babers can't win without a Dungey-level QB. So, he's got to recruit better at the quarterback position. And round-and-round it goes.
 

nzm136

All Conference
Joined
Sep 3, 2012
Messages
3,039
Like
3,612
Of all the things to worry about the offensive approach is the last. There are obviously some issues with execution, in my opinion because of the OL problems for part of last season and the start of this. It has to, and should, get better.

There are efficiency issues with this offense that have been consistent. They have not been efficient on third down or good in the close redzone. But at a macro level these guys know what they are doing.

Here is SU's offensive performance over the last decade. How is the offensive approach the problem?

View attachment 187869

View attachment 187871

This offense has been the best of any in the last twenty years. There are some inherent weaknesses and it doesn't lend itself to setting up the defensive side of the ball for success, but with the right ingredients it has given the program the ability to compete with, and sometimes beat, more talented teams and dominate even or lesser opponents.

The consistent issue has been defense. If the change tightens that up some, I have confidence that the performance on Saturday will continue to be an outlier.
Your numbers are irrelevant.

You don’t factor in pace, and the pace of the game has changed dramatically over the last 20 years.

Use meaningful numbers and look at points on a per drive basis, and you’ll see the problem.

Also, benchmark against something other than 20 years of bad offense.
 

MadNY3

All Conference
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
3,242
Like
7,124
Your numbers are irrelevant.

You don’t factor in pace, and the pace of the game has changed dramatically over the last 20 years.

Use meaningful numbers and look at points on a per drive basis, and you’ll see the problem.

Also, benchmark against something other than 20 years of bad offense.
Useless is far too strong. He makes a point.
 

nzm136

All Conference
Joined
Sep 3, 2012
Messages
3,039
Like
3,612
Useless is far too strong. He makes a point.
What point do you think he makes?

If it's that we've scored more than in the past and we've gotten more yards than in the past, so the offense is good/better than the past/not entirely the problem/good enough/reason to believe, then the numbers don't support the point. They don't refute it, either. They're just irrelevant to it.
 

dollarbill44

All American
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
6,203
Like
7,475
I seemingly punish myself every weekend during football season...I'm also a life long Browns fan. Just brutal. :(
Same here. I'm also an Indians fan. Last weekend was what I call a perfect sports weekend: SU lost, Browns lost and the Tribe got swept.
 

TheCusian

Living Legend
Joined
Sep 24, 2012
Messages
18,688
Like
24,422
What point do you think he makes?

If it's that we've scored more than in the past and we've gotten more yards than in the past, so the offense is good/better than the past/not entirely the problem/good enough/reason to believe, then the numbers don't support the point. They don't refute it, either. They're just irrelevant to it.
No need to go around and around on this tempo thing. But more yards and points are good no matter what. It is of course balanced out by awarding more possessions to the other team.

And not for nothing - Dino has more wins against top 25 teams and a ten win season to his credit. And that makes him an outlier *here*
 

PhatOrange

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
21,616
Like
26,473
The wideout thing blows my mind. I exaggerate this but like 2 years ago, maybe 1, didn’t we have like 15 wideouts? I remember saying how absurd it was. I guess the strategy is- get as many as possible (quantity), and hope that %s allow for quality ones to step up.

Where are all of these guys? Thankfully we saw some stuff from Queeley. Hope he keeps it up.
Dino's rosters during his career and at Baylor have always carried that many WRs (around 15). They have 12 right now. (and just FYI, I picked a random team - Ohio State - and they currently have 15 WRs on their roster.) 1 senior and 3 verbal recruits should make 14 for Syracuse by next August.

The roster also has 13 scholarship OL. and 15 is probably the benchmark; so this number is too light. They have 1 senior and 5 verbal recruits so the number should will swell to 18 by August.
 
Last edited:

Online statistics

Members online
30
Guests online
395
Total visitors
425

Top Bottom