More Winston

[rrlbees]

From Deadspin. If you read the whole article, tell me it doesn't make you go hmmm...

http://deadspin.com/why-i-believe-j...source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

 

[Lou_C]

Ugh.

This basically boils down to...I believe Winston's accuser because I believe all rape accusers.

You know what? I don't really have that big a problem with that. We should give them the benefit of the doubt. We want rapes reported.

But in this particular case? There's just nothing to indicate it happened any way other than the defense's story said it did.

The accuser's story? Which one?

The one where she drank 5-6 shots and was drunk? The one where a strange man slipped her a knockout date rape drug in a drink? Or the one where she was knocked unconscious by a blow on the head and raped when she was unconscious?

All of those explanations were given by her as to how she ended up in a cab and then in an apartment, but couldn't recall with who or where the apartment was.

And then her blood work came back, and indicated that she didn't have any knockout drugs in her system. Her parents were so disbelieving, they insisted it be tested a second time and it was sent to a Miami lab, who tested for 200+ drugs and found none.

Her blood alcohol level at the time of testing was negligible, and extrapolated back to be no more than a .10 BAC at the reported time of the attack. That might be a bit of a buzz at best, but certainly no blackout drunk.

And no evidence of head trauma.

The bottom line is that the defense has a story of what happened that night, and there is zero evidence to anything to the contrary of that. It's true Winston declined to speak to investigators (as most accused are advised to). But the witnesses were interviewed by police. There is no evidence to contradict their story.

On the other hand, the accuser's story cannot even be settled on a single version. And of the various versions, there actually IS evidence that contradicts that version.

How people can look at that and call this a "cover up" or that he's probably guilty but they don't have any evidence, I don't get it. They have ZERO evidence of rape. They don't even have a consistent story from the witness. The witness cannot or will not provide details, and yet there is no medical support for any reason that she would have no recall.

 

[Lou_C]

Keep in mind that the accuser never called the police or her parents. Obviously I don't know how the scenario played out, but to me it looks like this...

Winston and girl do something not very classy, but common among college students, of a random hookup. Girl had literally just been with her boyfriend.

By way of explanation, girl tells an untrue story to roommate.

Roommate, against the accuser's wishes, calls the police and the accuser's parents, and it's off to the races.

I really don't think the accuser ever intended to pursue this, I think she said something kind of dumb without really thinking about it, and it ended up getting away from her. I feel horribly for her, because even though I don't think it's likely she was raped, I do think her life has been totally ruined by the actions of a definitely well meaning friend, and a family lawyer who may or may not be all that well-meaning.

 

[All4SU]

I believe the girl (accuser).

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Keep in mind that the accuser never called the police or her parents. Obviously I don't know how the scenario played out, but to me it looks like this...

Winston and girl do something not very classy, but common among college students, of a random hookup. Girl had literally just been with her boyfriend.

By way of explanation, girl tells an untrue story to roommate.

Roommate, against the accuser's wishes, calls the police and the accuser's parents, and it's off to the races.

I really don't think the accuser ever intended to pursue this, I think she said something kind of dumb without really thinking about it, and it ended up getting away from her. I feel horribly for her, because even though I don't think it's likely she was raped, I do think her life has been totally ruined by the actions of a definitely well meaning friend, and a family lawyer who may or may not be all that well-meaning.

My surmise as well.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I believe the girl (accuser).

Which version?

 

[Bornorange]

Common for traumatized victims to have confusion around the circumstances.

 

[All4SU]

Which version?

The one that waited less than two hours to have a friend contact the police about a rape.

 

[syr02esq]

Ugh.

This basically boils down to...I believe Winston's accuser because I believe all rape accusers.

You know what? I don't really have that big a problem with that. We should give them the benefit of the doubt. We want rapes reported.

But in this particular case? There's just nothing to indicate it happened any way other than the defense's story said it did.

The accuser's story? Which one?

The one where she drank 5-6 shots and was drunk? The one where a strange man slipped her a knockout date rape drug in a drink? Or the one where she was knocked unconscious by a blow on the head and raped when she was unconscious?

All of those explanations were given by her as to how she ended up in a cab and then in an apartment, but couldn't recall with who or where the apartment was.

And then her blood work came back, and indicated that she didn't have any knockout drugs in her system. Her parents were so disbelieving, they insisted it be tested a second time and it was sent to a Miami lab, who tested for 200+ drugs and found none.

Her blood alcohol level at the time of testing was negligible, and extrapolated back to be no more than a .10 BAC at the reported time of the attack. That might be a bit of a buzz at best, but certainly no blackout drunk.

And no evidence of head trauma.

The bottom line is that the defense has a story of what happened that night, and there is zero evidence to anything to the contrary of that. It's true Winston declined to speak to investigators (as most accused are advised to). But the witnesses were interviewed by police. There is no evidence to contradict their story.

On the other hand, the accuser's story cannot even be settled on a single version. And of the various versions, there actually IS evidence that contradicts that version.

How people can look at that and call this a "cover up" or that he's probably guilty but they don't have any evidence, I don't get it. They have ZERO evidence of rape. They don't even have a consistent story from the witness. The witness cannot or will not provide details, and yet there is no medical support for any reason that she would have no recall.

That's a lot of explaining you are doing. I think the right answer is sometimes the simpler one -- the one as intimated by the article. And a victim's story of what happened IS evidence. You come along way to protect your school.

 

[javadoc]

IMO, the only relevant point the writer touches on is whether she has personally been involved in cases where a rape charge was brought on less evidence. But I couldn't tell if she was talking about the same jurisdiction. That may be simply an issue of prosecutors in one locale being more aggressive than in others.

I really do not like lines like this one, though:

"Some of us foolishly put ourselves in situations that we should not have. But the penalty for stupidity is not rape."

Straw man argument that diverts attention from the real take-home lesson that should accompany the article.

 

[NKR1978]

That's a lot of explaining you are doing. I think the right answer is sometimes the simpler one -- the one as intimated by the article. And a victim's story of what happened IS evidence. You come along way to protect your school.

During the whole Bernie situation I felt like people on this board were much better informed about everything going on. Of course we were pretty obsessed and poured over every piece of information. I imagine FSU fans are in the same boat as we were.

Personally, I have no clue what happened. I feel awful for the woman who wrote the Deadspin essay, but I don't see how her horrible experience is relevant here. There are questions on both sides, but some pretty huge pieces of her story don't add up and ultimately the prosecutors made the right call.

 

[retro44]

I believe Winston is guilty, first the TPD and then Meggs covered for the criminal.

I feel that Meggs felt that Winston would never be convicted in the state of Florida.

The lead detective was begging his superiors to work for the Florida St. booster club twice over.

 

[anomander]

I totally believe Winston. Why was she incoherent if she wasn't drunk or drugged? Why did she go home with Winston again if she wasn't drunk or drugged and had a boy friend?

 

[cusefan88]

One of the constant battles we have in our society today. Innocent until guilty (but judged anyway) vs protecting the victim and not demonizing said person.

It's a delicate situation with no right answer. However, I love the Deadspin article because it's a counter balance to a lot of stuff already written.

 

[orange79]

That DA should be immediately fired for conduct unbecoming (I know, you can't do that). All I know is if one of my daughters had accused someone of rape, and the 'peoples' representative had acted like that...well (at least in my dreams) I probably would only be posting on this board during my weekly allotted one hour of internet time. Just before lockdown.

 

[All4SU]

Her blood alcohol level at the time of testing was negligible, and extrapolated back to be no more than a .10 BAC at the reported time of the attack. That might be a bit of a buzz at best, but certainly no blackout drunk.
.

FWIW, a blood alcohol level of .1o is 20 percent higher than the State of Florida legal limit for operating a motor vehicle.

 

[4evaOrange]

That's a lot of explaining you are doing. I think the right answer is sometimes the simpler one -- the one as intimated by the article. And a victim's story of what happened IS evidence. You come along way to protect your school.

Would you not expect him to come to defend his school???

 

[All4SU]

One of the constant battles we have in our society today. Innocent until guilty (but judged anyway) vs protecting the victim and not demonizing said person.

It's a delicate situation with no right answer. However, I love the Deadspin article because it's a counter balance to a lot of stuff already written.

I will say upfront that I have read a lot less of the news coverage on this incident than most here. Frankly, I just don't care that much. But from the very first articles that came out, my opinion was that the fact that the report was made less than two hours from the time of the alleged incident is a strong suggestion to me that something inappropriate happened...and I don't mean consensual sex. This was my opinion even before the DNA evidence became public.

In cases of rape, we discount motive for the crime because the motive is understood. However warped that may be, everyone knows what would likely motivate at 18-20 year old boy/man. And while it has no bearing, we spend all of our time analyzing the motive of the girl/woman. Why would she claim he raped her? Why would she engage in consensual sex, only to seek some type of retribution afterward.

In this case, I'm not buying all of the suggested motives/explanations that have been suggested. At 4 a.m. in the morning, I don't believe this was a story that got away from some girl. I think this was rape. My opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Cusefan95]

I will say upfront that I have read a lot less of the news coverage on this incident than most here. Frankly, I just don't care that much. But from the very first articles that came out, my opinion was that the fact that the report was made less than two hours from the time of the alleged incident is a strong suggestion to me that something inappropriate happened...and I don't mean consensual s e x . This was my opinion even before the DNA evidence became public.

In cases of rape, we discount motive for the crime because the motive is understood. However warped that may be, everyone knows what would likely motivate at 18-20 year old boy/man. And while it has no bearing, we spend all of our time analyzing the motive of the girl/woman. Why would she claim he raped her? Why would she engage in consensual s e x , only to seek some type of retribution afterward.

In this case, I'm not buying all of the suggested motives/explanations that have been suggested. At 4 a.m. in the morning, I don't believe this was a story that got away from some girl. I think this was rape. My opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

The thing that's frustrating is seeing people who saw the turmoil created by the Fine situation still feeling willing to assume the worst in a situation like this - especially when they state up front they aren't well informed.

Very, very disappointing. It's things like this that convince me that people are simply unable to live up to the ideals of 'innocent until proven guilty' in practice.

 

[ImperialOrange]

During the whole Bernie situation I felt like people on this board were much better informed about everything going on. Of course we were pretty obsessed and poured over every piece of information. I imagine FSU fans are in the same boat as we were.

Personally, I have no clue what happened. I feel awful for the woman who wrote the Deadspin essay, but I don't see how her horrible experience is relevant here. There are questions on both sides, but some pretty huge pieces of her story don't add up and ultimately the prosecutors made the right call.

I haven't followed the Winston case with anywhere near the detail of the Fine case but if there was DNA found anywhere during the Fine fiasco it probably would've been game over.

However, in the Fine case, he was investigated and his house was raided. In the Winston case, he wasn't even questioned. Doesn't mean anything wrong did or didn't happen with Winston but the lack of investigation is a bit perplexing. I can't help but think if there was evidence clearing Winston, a thorough report would've been on the books immediately.

It's a horrible situation regardless, involving a subject that brings up some of the most raw human emotion. Women think "what if it was me?" and gents think "that could've been my sister/gf/wife/daughter/neice/etc".

 

[All4SU]

The thing that's frustrating is seeing people who saw the turmoil created by the Fine situation still feeling willing to assume the worst in a situation like this - especially when they state up front they aren't well informed.

Very, very disappointing. It's things like this that convince me that people are simply unable to live up to the ideals of 'innocent until proven guilty' in practice.

If I was on a jury for this case, or voting for the Heisman trophy, or in any position of influence in this matter, I would absolutely hold to innocent until proven guilty. But I'm just a poster on a sports message board -- not even an FSU board at that -- and my opinion is that the girl was raped.

 

[longislandcuse]

Sorry if this seems insensitive but I wish people would stop pointing towards "signs of struggle" ie, bruises as slam dunk evidence for a rape. Fifty Shades of Grey was on the best seller list forever and it wasn't due to men buying it. "Making love" is so 1950's (I kid...kind of)

 

[ImperialOrange]

The whole "investigation" was bogus. If Winston is guilty, they did this girl an injustice. If Winston is innocent, they did him a huge disservice.

I can't help but wonder how this would've looked if it was the QB for FAU or FIU instead of FSU.

 

[Cusefan95]

It's a horrible situation regardless, involving a subject that brings up some of the most raw human emotion. Women think "what if it was me?" and gents think "that could've been my sister/gf/wife/daughter/neice/etc".

As a guy that knows that "rape" is often post-sex regret, I think "hopefully I don't hook up with some crazy beeoch that accuses me of rape after we get busy". At least that's what ran through my head before I got married...it's not so much an issue to me personally anymore. But I do find the musings of the blue-pill crowd on this subject amusing.

 

[anglerman]

Yo

I will say upfront that I have read a lot less of the news coverage on this incident than most here. Frankly, I just don't care that much. But from the very first articles that came out, my opinion was that the fact that the report was made less than two hours from the time of the alleged incident is a strong suggestion to me that something inappropriate happened...and I don't mean consensual s e x . This was my opinion even before the DNA evidence became public.

In cases of rape, we discount motive for the crime because the motive is understood. However warped that may be, everyone knows what would likely motivate at 18-20 year old boy/man. And while it has no bearing, we spend all of our time analyzing the motive of the girl/woman. Why would she claim he raped her? Why would she engage in consensual s e x , only to seek some type of retribution afterward.

In this case, I'm not buying all of the suggested motives/explanations that have been suggested. At 4 a.m. in the morning, I don't believe this was a story that got away from some girl. I think this was rape. My opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

You know that woman do lie sometimes right? Sometimes people are just crazy and make up stories right? I'm not saying it didn't happen but the story she tells doesnt add up. She hasn't been very credible. Without credibility you don't have much of a case.