More with less ... | Syracusefan.com

More with less ...

General20

Basketball Maven
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
1,744
Like
11,825
I'm not going to say anything we don't already know, but sometimes you just need to see it written down.

Jim Boeheim is playing with only 7 scholarship players.

Of those 7 players, 6 had never played meaningful minutes in college before this season.

3 of those players are battling through injuries that make them ineffective.

Of the 4 healthy players, one is battling strep throat, and another is going through his worst slump of the season. The remaining two are low ranked (in high school) freshman.

This group was understandably predicted to have a disaster of a season. Boeheim barely got them in the tournament, thanks to a top 10 defense.

In the tournament Boeheim held all 3 teams he has faced to 30 ... 30! ... points below their season average.

The last of these 3 teams was Michigan St. who had a record of 30-4, was playing at home, is expected to have 2 players drafted in the lottery, and 3 players drafted overall, and was preseason #2 in the country based on the talent they have. They averaged 82 points per game this year.

If you discount the 2 banked in 3's, and the times we intentionally put them on the line, they only scored 43 points against us.

Syracuse achieved this defensive performance despite 4 players in foul trouble causing them to have to play a 6'9, 180 pound freshman forward at center against the best rebounding team in the country, and play a WALK ON for the last almost 7 minutes of the game.

With all due respect to the warriors on this team (and they are warriors) Boeheim's system is pretty much winning games on its own at this point.

So I have to ask the question, has any coach ever won more with less? I don't mean this as a rhetorical question, I'd like to hear some thoughts. I'm trying to think of another coaching performance that's even in the same ballpark and I'm coming up empty.
 
Some very good points and well deserving for these kids.

I may be wrong, but I thought Bayer got a scholarship this year to make 8[/QUOTE

You are technically right. But he was brought in to be a walk on, and is of walk on quality (which I think is the important part) and was given a scholly only because some players left so we had one to give.
 
Some very good points and well deserving for these kids.

I may be wrong, but I thought Bayer got a scholarship this year to make 8

Nothing against Bayer - and he was really, really solid in his 7 minutes tonight - but, the only reason he got a scholarship, is because we had like 5 not being used, after TT and Geno jumped.

If we must use semantics - we only had 7 *recruited* scholarship players. Plus a former-walkon.
 
It really is incredible. Also he has done a great job handling the whole group given the struggles of guys like Moyer and Frank's limitations of being forced to play out of position all year.

I have to think that either Geno simply just didn't love the game enough or wanted to focus more on academics because what he missed out on ... I would be kicking myself everyday.
 
So I have to ask the question, has any coach ever won more with less? I don't mean this as a rhetorical question, I'd like to hear some thoughts. I'm trying to think of another coaching performance that's even in the same ballpark and I'm coming up empty.

Butler 2010-11.
 
Butler 2010-11.

Butler had an amazing cinderella run, no doubt. Didn't they also beat a Jamie Dixon team? But they were coming off another championship performance, and I believe they were ranked to start the year and had some expectations. Not sure you can compare a ranked team in the middle of a golden era (for that school) to what Syracuse has gone though.
 
Butler had an amazing cinderella run, no doubt. Didn't they also beat a Jamie Dixon team? But they were coming off another championship performance, and I believe they were ranked to start the year and had some expectations. Not sure you can compare a ranked team in the middle of a golden era (for that school) to what Syracuse has gone though.

I meant the fact that a then mid-major program that had one nba player (Hayward) who wasn’t there for the second season went to two national championship games in a row.

I’m not sure i see how the relative prominence of the two programs is relevant to who did more with less. If it is, the fact that butler won 10 NCAA games in two years seems more shocking than Syracuse winning three (with an asterisk) in one year.
 
I meant the fact that a then mid-major program that had one nba player (Hayward) who wasn’t there for the second season went to two national championship games in a row.

I’m not sure i see how the relative prominence of the two programs is relevant to who did more with less. If it is, the fact that butler won 10 NCAA games in two years seems more shocking than Syracuse winning three (with an asterisk) in one year.

I get your point now, and its a good one. Though I think you might be underestimating the talent they had. Shelvin Mack is actually still playing in the NBA believe it or not. He carved out a decent NBA career for himself.
 
We got some work to do but to answer your Q- ‘83 NC State

This was actually my first thought. I know they were huge underdogs in the title game, but I know very little else about them because I was 3 years old at the time. Were they a bad team?
 
We got some work to do but to answer your Q- ‘83 NC State
That team won the title in a huge upset so I get the point, but Thurl Bailey and Sidney Lowe had long NBA careers. Lorenzo Charles played a whole year in the NBA and Cozell McQueen had a cup of coffee in the NBA. That team had talent
 
So I have to ask the question, has any coach ever won more with less? I don't mean this as a rhetorical question, I'd like to hear some thoughts. I'm trying to think of another coaching performance that's even in the same ballpark and I'm coming up empty.

George Mason - 2006...I don't think they had a single NBA player...
 
This has to be one of Jbs top 5 coaching accomplishments. It really is amazing.
 
This was actually my first thought. I know they were huge underdogs in the title game, but I know very little else about them because I was 3 years old at the time. Were they a bad team?
State had a ton of talent. And the new ACC three point shot was a huge benefit for them. If Whittenberg didnt get hurt they would have made the tourney easily. Plus they had three seniors who all played in big games before.
 
I'm not going to say anything we don't already know, but sometimes you just need to see it written down.

Jim Boeheim is playing with only 7 scholarship players.

Of those 7 players, 6 had never played meaningful minutes in college before this season.

3 of those players are battling through injuries that make them ineffective.

Of the 4 healthy players, one is battling strep throat, and another is going through his worst slump of the season. The remaining two are low ranked (in high school) freshman.

This group was understandably predicted to have a disaster of a season. Boeheim barely got them in the tournament, thanks to a top 10 defense.

In the tournament Boeheim held all 3 teams he has faced to 30 ... 30! ... points below their season average.

The last of these 3 teams was Michigan St. who had a record of 30-4, was playing at home, is expected to have 2 players drafted in the lottery, and 3 players drafted overall, and was preseason #2 in the country based on the talent they have. They averaged 82 points per game this year.

If you discount the 2 banked in 3's, and the times we intentionally put them on the line, they only scored 43 points against us.

Syracuse achieved this defensive performance despite 4 players in foul trouble causing them to have to play a 6'9, 180 pound freshman forward at center against the best rebounding team in the country, and play a WALK ON for the last almost 7 minutes of the game.

With all due respect to the warriors on this team (and they are warriors) Boeheim's system is pretty much winning games on its own at this point.

So I have to ask the question, has any coach ever won more with less? I don't mean this as a rhetorical question, I'd like to hear some thoughts. I'm trying to think of another coaching performance that's even in the same ballpark and I'm coming up empty.
I believe you forgot one other key impediment - SU was playing its 3rd game in 5 days!
The Spartans, conversely, not only play 10+ players, they were playing their second game in 15 days.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
169,668
Messages
4,844,510
Members
5,981
Latest member
SYRtoBOS

Online statistics

Members online
189
Guests online
1,566
Total visitors
1,755


...
Top Bottom