Most important player vs best player

[thebigeast44]

When Robinson picked up his 3rd foul yesterday, I blurted out at the game - "fantastic, their best player is out with 3 fouls!" The guy next to me immediately said Patterson is their best player and of course I knew why he said that. Patterson has been getting all the hype as a potential ACC player of the year and he's earned that hype. Similar to CJ Fair on SU.

However, I think it's clear that both Robinson and Ennis are the most important players on their teams. Both top rated point guards coming out of high school that have put up unbelievable assist to turnover ratios this year and led their teams to sterling records. Without their leadership at the point, who knows what the records of both teams would be.

When Robinson went out, we immediately stole the ball and popped up our lead. When he came back in, Pitt went on a run and took the lead. Of course, helped along by the 3 big 3's from Patterson.

Both Robinson and Ennis's worth to their teams are not fully calculated in the stats they put up. The W's they put up show their true value.

So I guess I'm wondering, what do others think? Are Robinson and Ennis not only their team's most important players but also their best players?

Of course, I was glad to see Ennis on the winning side yesterday and clearly mark himself IMHO as the nation's top point guard Let's Go Orange!

 

[jordoo]

I don't see Pitt enough to make that call. They would would suffer without either IMO.

Ennis is clearly our best and most important player IMO.

 

[Rocco]

I would say Ennis is the most important player because he runs the offense and has put the team on his back several times at the end of games.

At this point, you could even argue he's also been our most valuable player when looking at all facets of the game. Toss up with CJ.

 

[Libero2]

I think in terms of us, the "you know what you are gonna get" crowd is Ennis, CJ and to an extent Grant. As long as those guys are playing, we know what they will give us.

Which leads me to believe our most important piece down the stretch will be Cooney. Right now he is in the midst of a slump. When he is on, we are another level of nasty. Since he has been off our games have unsurprisingly been much closer. Come tournament time, if he is on, our chances are better than just about anybody's of going to the final four. If he is in the midst of another slump our chances become decreased for making a deep run.

Obviously if we were to introduce injury to the argument that all goes out the window, and it's Ennis without any doubts. But if everybody is healthy, Cooney is our most important player because what he does is the least consistent from game to game. When he is on, dear god are we nearly untouchable. When he is off, our games are much closer, and our execution down the stretch needs to be impeccable to stay unbeaten.

 

[br801]

Obviously if we were to introduce injury to the argument that all goes out the window, and it's Ennis without any doubts. But if everybody is healthy, Cooney is our most important player because what he does is the least consistent from game to game. When he is on, dear god are we nearly untouchable. When he is off, our games are much closer, and our execution down the stretch needs to be impeccable to stay unbeaten.

Cooney's primary role in this offense is to shoot 3s, which inherently is relatively difficult compared to other roles, and therefore subject to greater inconsistency.

But I'm not buying the argument that the rest of team needs to play impeccable basketball if Cooney's shot is off. This team has four primary scorers (just like last season's team), and can overcome poor offensive output from one or even two of them and still beat a good opponent. This club is very solid defensively, has excellent guard play, dynamic forwards, and a group of big men that collectively do a bit of everything (again, just like last season's team); that will keep them in it most nights and make them a tough out come March.

 

[Trueblue25]

I still say Fair is our best and most important.

 

[SWC75]

Cooney's primary role in this offense is to shoot 3s, which inherently is relatively difficult compared to other roles, and therefore subject to greater inconsistency.

But I'm not buying the argument that the rest of team needs to play impeccable basketball if Cooney's shot is off. This team has four primary scorers (just like last season's team), and can overcome poor offensive output from one or even two of them and still beat a good opponent. This club is very solid defensively, has excellent guard play, dynamic forwards, and a group of big men that collectively do a bit of everything (again, just like last season's team); that will keep them in it most nights and make them a tough out come March.

People talk about whether we should count the "hockey assist"- the pass before the pass that leads to the basket. I think there's such a thing as a "Cooney assist", but it's not something you'll ever see in the box score. Basically, every time an SU player drives to the basket to score, part of the reason he got that opportunity is that there's always a defender following Cooney around wherever he goes. When Gbinije replaces him, that defender plays off of him and the opening to the basket closes up. That has to be considered in any evalulation of Trevor Cooney's value to the team. And it's a role he plays even when his shot is off. They never stop defending Cooney.

 

[moqui]

Ennis is not just the best player on the team, he is the best player in the nation. He is the difference between this year and the 2010 and 2012 teams. He is the one guy who is going to get a bucket or get to the line when you absolutely need points, but more than that - his skill and cool head allow him to dictate the pace of every game. He doesn't do it statistically, but stylistically he absolutely dominates every game he plays. You have to be willing to see beyond the stats to see it, but as the season progresses I think you'll find more and more analysts giving him the nod for national POY.

 

[cuse1223]

Now this is what I like about this team, there is a dispute for our most important player and best player. With this Orange team everyone knows there role and often times they can not win without a constant effort from all 5 guys because when one is struggling the next picks up the slack. Ennis' value is obviously immeasurable for how much he does for us and is one of the most important players in his country, yet when Cooney is hitting the 'Cuse aint losing so that's his importance to the team. Also aggressive and starting to make a big difference offensively. To CJ his senior leadership and he too has poise down the stretch to hit the big jumper and attract often times 2 or 3 defenders near him. Grant bullies the opposing team down low (Pitt game not included on the rebounding end) and continues to create second and third chance opportunities for Syracuse. Finally Christmas is obviously not even a thought for most people asking this question, he is a huge spark defensively and keeps fighting. Also scoring is improving game by game.

 

[Dave85]

I still say Fair is our best and most important.

I want to say Fair because I like CJ so much. But I think Ennis, Grant, and Fair together as a group is heart of what makes this year's team so great. I am going to add Cooney to that list because of his defense. But then, I have to give a nod to Silent G for his contribution. And then you have to consider Rak and Baye efforts. It's a team. They are all good! It's all good. I am really enjoying this year's Orange basketball season!!!

 

[Libero2]

Cooney's primary role in this offense is to shoot 3s, which inherently is relatively difficult compared to other roles, and therefore subject to greater inconsistency.

But I'm not buying the argument that the rest of team needs to play impeccable basketball if Cooney's shot is off. This team has four primary scorers (just like last season's team), and can overcome poor offensive output from one or even two of them and still beat a good opponent. This club is very solid defensively, has excellent guard play, dynamic forwards, and a group of big men that collectively do a bit of everything (again, just like last season's team); that will keep them in it most nights and make them a tough out come March.

That is what I was trying to say, and you simply said it better.

As to the concept of impeccability, thats a different matter. But it's not shocking that when Cooney isn't hitting 5+ 3's a game, our games have been closer. Down the stretch in our several tight games this season, when we needed a play, somebody somewhere made it (didn't matter if it was a rebound, a perfect pass, finishing at the rim, getting a steal/block, hitting a jumper). That is in my mind impeccable execution when it matters most so far this season. It's the kind of thing that given enough opportunities, we will fail at eventually no matter how good we are, all it takes is one tough bounce.

Which is why I said when Cooney's shot is dropping, we are less likely to be in a close game down the stretch and as such can take the "luck" factor out of the game. Any semblance of a bad call, a weird long-bounce on a ball we had to have, a hail mary 3 dropping at the buzzer, or simply our guys not being able to make the ball go in the basket in the final minute when we need it, it all goes away when we are up 8 with 60 seconds to play instead of being up 1 or 2.

But because we have garnered so much experience at it already, because we have 4 primary scorers, we will be a very tough out and not a team anybody will want to play come March.

It's just we are much more lethal when Cooney is connecting from down town.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

People talk about whether we should count the "hockey assist"- the pass before the pass that leads to the basket. I think there's such a thing as a "Cooney assist", but it's not something you'll ever see in the box score. Basically, every time an SU player drives to the basket to score, part of the reason he got that opportunity is that there's always a defender following Cooney around wherever he goes. When Gbinije replaces him, that defender plays off of him and the opening to the basket closes up. That has to be considered in any evalulation of Trevor Cooney's value to the team. And it's a role he plays even when his shot is off. They never stop defending Cooney.

This is absolutely spot on. Trevor doesn't even need to be shooting well go garner constant attention. He is considered such a 3 point threat that he is always being guarded by the other teams' best defender. And until Gbinije proves that he can consistently hit a jump shot, he's almost a double liability on offense. He doesn't score AND his presence eliminates the opening to the basket that CJ, Tyler and Jerami thrive on.