My .02

[rrlbees]

Good one!

But the rest of your post is off kilter. The previous 46 years doesn't change the losing record, or have any bearing except to those trying to put a rationalized spin on the subpar performance.

I think he’s just saying one losing season isn’t as bad as having 8 in the last 9 years.

 

[RF2044]

I think he’s just saying one losing season isn’t as bad as having 8 in the last 9 years.

Which didn't have anything to do with what Otto and the grotto was saying, and I was responding to, which is that coming close doesn't cut the mustard.

 

[rrlbees]

Which didn't have anything to do with what Otto and the grotto was saying, and I was responding to, which is that coming close doesn't cut the mustard.

I think he agreed and why he pointed out 8 losing seasons in 9.

 

[CuseLegacy]

I have a feeling that Lamson will supplant Shrader at some point. I don't know when, but I think it'll happen.

I've seen this movie before, most recently in the last few years. I think I'll wait and see how the QBs perform in actual games.

 

[sdhall01]

I've seen this movie before, most recently in the last few years. I think I'll wait and see how the QBs perform in actual games.

Very fair. We haven't seen Lamson and we haven't seen how Shrader has progressed. However, and to be fair, nothing Shrader showed last year suggests he's unsupplantable. Still, it's VERY early.

 

[rrlbees]

Very fair. We haven't seen Lamson and we haven't seen how Shrader has progressed. However, and to be fair, nothing Shrader showed last year suggests he's unsupplantable. Still, it's VERY early.

Is unsupplantable a word?

 

[sdhall01]

Is unsupplantable a word?

I don’t believe so

 

[rackman18]

This mentality of "we might be better but it's ok if the record doesn't show it" gots to go

We have a Heisman finalist caliber player and in the off-season we've addressed nearly every deficiency on the team. The schedule is a challenge but it doesn't matter. We're getting to at least 6 wins.

That's happening. Shut up about it.

I agree. I will put it up front. If we can pull in Goode and Mesidor or of equal talent of them and GS can hit his receivers, we will be in most of those game on our schedule. That D is going to be tough if we get a couple top notch DTs. And don't call the offense short just yet. I really like this team especially the direction we are going in both O & D . We have good depth in most other than DTs and we shall correct that situation also.

 

[SWC75]

Why do you keep talking about historical context? Again, that interpretive spin has zero to do with last year's losing record.

We have a small group of posters who feel compelled to defend Boeheim against all objective criticism despite how the season unfolded

We had a debate about the meaning of "compete" and I credited the team with the things they did accomplish, which inevitably brought a response from you and a few other posters, (which is fine: that's what the board is for). I also think that the fact that that was our first basketball losing record in 53 years puts the basketball program in a different situation than the football program who has had 7 losing records in 8 years. I don't think that can be ignored. I have never expressed satisfaction with going 16-17 in basketball, any more than I'm satisfied to go 5-7 in football.

Boeheim had no shortage of criticism this season and neither did Babers and a lot of it came from me. (See my "Downside" posts.) But I'm objective enough to give credit where it is due, (thus the "Upside" posts) and will defend anyone from unfair criticism and there was some of that, too.

 

[SWC75]

I don’t believe so

It is now.

 

[RF2044]

We had a debate about the meaning of "compete" and I credited the team with the things they did accomplish, which inevitably brought a response from you and a few other posters, (which is fine: that's what the board is for). I also think that the fact that that was our first basketball losing record in 53 years puts the basketball program in a different situation than the football program who has had 7 losing records in 8 years. I don't think that can be ignored. I have never expressed satisfaction with going 16-17 in basketball, any more than I'm satisfied to go 5-7 in football.

Boeheim had no shortage of criticism this season and neither did Babers and a lot of it came from me. (See my "Downside" posts.) But I'm objective enough to give credit where it is due, (thus the "Upside" posts) and will defend anyone from unfair criticism and there was some of that, too.

I think you have difficulty being objective. When you talk about the past to justify the present, it smacks of being congenitally incapable of being objective about how the program is performing, and the tangible decline that we've seen over the past 8 years. Talking about what transpired the preceding ~40 seasons is subterfuge that ignores the elephant in the room.

The football program has struggled immensely. They need to step it up. This season is an important one for Dino Babers.

But in much the same way as past seasons will not dictate nor impact how this upcoming football season unfolds, Jim Boeheim's previous 45 years did not alter the fact that this season resulted in a losing record. When you have a losing record in both the conference and overall, you aren't competitive -- you are subpar, especially when the ACC conference was weak overall, outside of the top 2 teams. And the results our program had bore that out.

If Babers gets the team to a bowl, what he did last year, or in the 2020 COVID-19 year, will not matter. Results matter. The same way that JB's HOF historical record, while impressive as hell, doesn't alter the fact that we had a losing record last year, culminating an unprecedented period of steady decline over a span of years that is now approaching a decade. No amount of spin can change that. Because at the end of the day, results matter.

 

[All4SU]

I think you have difficulty being objective. When you talk about the past to justify the present, it smacks of being congenitally incapable of being objective about how the program is performing, and the tangible decline that we've seen over the past 8 years. Talking about what transpired the preceding ~40 seasons is subterfuge that ignores the elephant in the room.

The football program has struggled immensely. They need to step it up. This season is an important one for Dino Babers.

But in much the same way as past seasons will not dictate nor impact how this upcoming football season unfolds, Jim Boeheim's previous 45 years did not alter the fact that this season resulted in a losing record. When you have a losing record in both the conference and overall, you aren't competitive -- you are subpar, especially when the ACC conference was weak overall, outside of the top 2 teams. And the results our program had bore that out.

If Babers gets the team to a bowl, what he did last year, or in the 2020 COVID-19 year, will not matter. Results matter. The same way that JB's HOF historical record, while impressive as hell, doesn't alter the fact that we had a losing record last year, culminating an unprecedented period of steady decline over a span of years that is now approaching a decade. No amount of spin can change that. Because at the end of the day, results matter.

Anything hovering around .500 is “competitive.” Especially if games are close. One win away from a bowl game with several tight games is literally the definition of competitive. 3-9 probably not. Same for basketball. 15-16 is competitive. 10-21 probably not.

 

[RF2044]

Anything hovering around .500 is “competitive.” Especially if games are close. One win away from a bowl game with several tight games is literally the definition of competitive. 3-9 probably not. Same for basketball. 15-16 is competitive. 10-21 probably not.

We posted a losing record, and a losing conference record in a year when the ACC was extremely down. We went 0-10 in games against Tier 1 opponents. We went 2-5 in games against Tier 3 opponents.

The statistics may have shifted slightly by the end of the year, so forgive me if these are slightly off -- but at one point late in the season we were 358th out of 358 teams in giving up three point attempts per game, and 357th out of 358 in opponent three pointers made. We rated 322 out of 358 in giving up defensive rebounds, and 335th out of 358 in field goals opportunities allowed.

We had what was probably our worst non-conference performance in the Jim Boeheim era. We lost to a Georgetown team that went o-fer in the Big East. In our last 8 losses, we got beaten by 20, 11, 12, 10, 25, 9, 3, and 9. In the game that we lost by 3, we had a 17 point lead in the second half of the game and squandered it away in OT.

The data doesn't support that we were "competitive." Neither does our record.

 

[JRHEETER]

Mind blowing how many people out here are doubting Shrader….

 

[elimunelson]

If we beat Louisville we’re going to be 5-0 coming off a bye playing NC State at home

That's how i see it. the team needs to race to 5-0 or 4-1. That's the path to a bowl IMO

 

[qdawgg]

Is unsupplantable a word?

It is this weekend

 

[JackBauer44]

A healthy Shrader can do big things in this offense. He has the ability to hit the 5-10 yard stick routes well, which will help sell the double moves we saw Lamson hit for TDs on Friday night.

I don’t think Lamson is overtaking Shrader, but it feels real good to know we have someone i feel really comfortable about leading the offense if Shrader goes down.

 

[money3189]

A healthy Shrader can do big things in this offense. He has the ability to hit the 5-10 yard stick routes well, which will help sell the double moves we saw Lamson hit for TDs on Friday night.

I don’t think Lamson is overtaking Shrader, but it feels real good to know we have someone i feel really comfortable about leading the offense if Shrader goes down.

Exactly my thoughts. Shrader will improve because there are simple rules they have in their scheme that makes decision making easy. Its will allow more efficiency in the pass game. I feel the same about Lamson.

 

[RF2044]

Exactly my thoughts. Shrader will improve because there are simple rules they have in their scheme that makes decision making easy. Its will allow more efficiency in the pass game. I feel the same about Lamson.

After all of the years of struggling to recruit quality QBs, it feels good to know that we have "quality" in the room. Shrader was a big time recruit coming out of HS. Lamson looked good for a RF, with lots of potential. And I thought Morgan looked pretty good Friday, as well. Vallari struggled a bit, but has the tools to make a move on the depth chart once he gets settled into the new offense. Heck, even McPhail looked pretty decent for a walk on. And we started the class of 2023 with another highly rated QB prospect.

Future looks bright.

 

[money3189]

After all of the years of struggling to recruit quality QBs, it feels good to know that we have "quality" in the room. Shrader was a big time recruit coming out of HS. Lamson looked good for a RF, with lots of potential. And I thought Morgan looked pretty good Friday, as well. Vallari struggled a bit, but has the tools to make a move on the depth chart once he gets settled into the new offense. Heck, even McPhail looked pretty decent for a walk on. And we started the class of 2023 with another highly rated QB prospect.

Future looks bright.

Agree, we seem to have a competent and competitive QB room. Reminds me of 2018.

 

[Bulldog04]

Think about how bad Gilbert was last year. That’s good for at least 2 more wins this year

 

[richmondcuse03]

Think about how bad Gilbert was last year. That’s good for at least 2 more wins this year

Can I like this a 100 times? Never underestimate the importance of a good OC and QB coach.

 

[baggerbob]

Exactly my thoughts. Shrader will improve because there are simple rules they have in their scheme that makes decision making easy. Its will allow more efficiency in the pass game. I feel the same about Lamson.

Remember that they have a position they call football player, expect to see Shrader, and Lamson together.

 

[money3189]

Remember that they have a position they call football player, expect to see Shrader, and Lamson together.

Good point

 

[007]

Remember that they have a position they call football player, expect to see Shrader, and Lamson together.

And/or Villari. Big "cat." Not sure what other skills he has, but he fits the Anae/Beck FBP mold physically.